Basement Sump Pump Question

[Jeffrey Makiel]

I need a reliable backup to my sump pump. I have a 12V battery backup pump from Sears that keeps killing deep cycle batteries. It boils off the water at a rate that you must add distilled water once a month.

I saw a water powered backup sump pump on This Old House. It uses an eductor. This is nice because I have reliable city water...and no batteries to die out. Does anyone have experience with one of these and perhaps provide a source?

thanks in advance...Jeff :)

[David G Baker]

I do not know where to get the product you mentioned but you are over charging the batteries if you are boiling off the battery solution. If you have to keep adding distilled water you are diluting the electrolyte solution to the point the battery won't be able to charge. IMHO

[Jamie Walker]

I agree with David Baker that you are over charging your batterys. I did a google search and found this interesting article.

www.radonseal.com/pumps/water-powered-pumps.htm (http://www.radonseal.com/pumps/water-powered-pumps.htm)

Jamie

[Jeffrey Makiel]

Yep...I think so too. The crummy brain that controls the charge (and float charge) does not work well. I believe this is an inherent problem with deep cycle batteries on these type of 'maintenance chargers'. I emailed Battery Tender (the folks that make little float chargers for automobile batteries), and they said that is a common issue with deep cycle batteries. I use their little chargers on automotive batteries and had no problems for over 8 years. They work great.

Instead of spending another $200 on a new battery system, I would sooner just rig up a Battery Tender on a car battery to power the backup pump. But I also have a 3/4" water supply pipe right next to the sump and that seems even more reliable with no limitation.

I like the Radonseal system that was pointed out. It has a unique float switch that would easily fit in my small sump.

Oh...by the way...don't finish your basement off!

-Jeff :)

[Dave Verstraete]

Jeff
I share your pain. I had water in the basement once when the back flow valve malfunctioned and the water backed up. Your solution sounds interesting. Currently, I have a separate sump pump next to the main sump with it's own hole in the floor set up as an overflow with a pipe in between. I also have a moisture monitor that sounds an alarm when water touches it.

Stay dry!

[Rob Russell]

I don't know if this is an option for you ...

Our house had a sump pump when we bought it. During the wet seasons, the pump would run every 15-20 minutes. Well, we had a flood when the first pump died. We had a flood when the pipe on the new pump froze outside and the connection at the pump blew because of the pressure.

Our house sits up above the street. I had a contractor come in, dig a trench and install a drain pipe that runs from where our sump was down to the storm sewer in the street. The nice thing about the pipe is it's gravity feed, so power outages and pump mechanical problems don't impact whether the water drains or not.

It cost several thousand dollars to put in the drain pipe, but we considered it to be money well spent. We have had no water issues from that underground water since we had the pipe installed and that was 15 to 20 years ago.

[Matt Meiser]

The drawback to those units is the water usage and associated cost when they run. They aren't an option for me since we are on a well. I have one of the Basement Watchdog units. Our first battery went bad after about a year, but the second has lasted a couple so I figure the first must have had a defect. I have been using the reconditioning feature of my regular car battery charger on it once a year or so too. The Basement Watchdog unit has a probe that goes into the battery to detect low electrolyte level. We have two interconnected sumps adjacent to each other and my plan is to install a second 110V pump in the second sump as a backup to first, with the battery unit just needed in the event of a power failure. We also have a float switch connected to our alarm system which is just above the basement watchdog float so we get a call if that would fail. We used to have a moisture sensor, but that proved problematic as water would condense on it and false-trigger.

[Jeffrey Makiel]

I just called Wayne Pumps and told them that my unit boils off water in the battery such that I must add distilled water every 3 to 4 weeks. He said that this was normal. I told him that it eats batteries at a rate of 1 a year.

He said that a sealed lead acid battery is an alternative to an open deep cycle battery. However, when I called a local battery supplier, the supplier strongly recommended against a sealed lead acid battery and recommended I go back to the traditional deep cycle open type.

I'm considering just installing a Battery Tender on a "freedom" car battery and rig up my own float switch. I don't care if the battery is damaged should it be called upon in an emergency. At least, it will run when called upon.

That water powered sump pump is beginning to look better and better!

-Jeff :)

[Jim Podsedly]

My folks installed a water powered pump after coming home from a long weekend and found a foot of water in their basement.

They had a marine battery backup and that only lasted so long.

You will always have water to power the pump you may not always have electric and the marine batteries only last hours.

They have had no problems and going on a year now.

Jim

[Tom Godley]

Just to let you know -- Some of the Sears units were recalled a few years back. Mine had the same problem - check into this before you buy anything else.

I now have a basement watchdog -- the large unit - does all kinds of self tests. I have used the battery they sell -- It has been over 5 years now and the battery is still showing as "full charge" 7hr run time. They say - battery will last 6-7 years with this unit.

Since I put it in (my main sump pump got a toy stuck in it - don't ask) -- I have never had any water anyway !!! But I have a finished area, and can not risk the damage.

[Jeffrey Makiel]

Matt & Tom,
I like the idea of a liquid level sensor for the battery. How often do you have to add water? Do you also have to add electolyte?
-Jeff :)

[Joe Witts]

Jeff:

The water eductor works well - no moving parts - it works on the same principal as all other centrifugal pumps - the venturi creates a pressure drop across it as the municipal water flows pass it - this creates a venturi (cyclone) effect at the base of the suction piping in your sump. The issue here is that for every 2 gallons that are pumped, 1 gallon of municipal water is used - this can get expensive FAST! In my neck of the woods we are paying close to $3 per 750 gallons - so if you put in the 1500GPH model - you are looking at it costing roughly $3 per hour that it runs.....that means in the wet season, it would cost you roughly $75 per day to run!! But remember that it is for backup to your original sump only!! Only you can figure out if it is worth the costs associated. As for the battery - you could go with Gel Cell - they work great on my boat.....they take and hold a charge with no maintenance. As for Rob's idea about a drain pipe installed to the storm sewer......I'd check with your municipality first......they are usually illegal!!

Hope this helps!!

[Tom Godley]

Funny -- I can not remember how often -- but I think it is about twice a year at the most.

I always look at it before I go away and add some -- I was away once and the dog watcher called to say something was beeping --- don't need that

[Wade Lippman]

I have installed two. One for my old house 15 years ago and one for a friend 2 years ago. They were cheap pieces of crap that I afraid would just break; and if they did break there was a potential to make a bad situation many times worse.

I also had a battery powered pump at my old house (very nasty flood situation, really glad to get out there!) and liked it much more than the water powered one. Never had a problem with the battery. I don't know much about batteries, but suspect it is just a case of anything from Sears being junk.

Either buy a decent battery powered pump, or make sure to get a water powered one that isn't all flimsy plastic like the ones I experienced.

Or do what I did; move to house on a hill.