Weird staining issue - need help

[Sam Waters]

Hey guys,

Great board you have here.

So here's my issue, (and my apologies if this has come up before as my search didn't yield anything).

I've build some cabinet doors from what appears to be some very tight maple and I can't get the wood to take the stain. It's a very dark color stain and I'm trying to match some custom cabinets that I had made.

The stain is a gel oil based stain from WoodKote. Multiple coats help, but in many cases the next coat seems to remove the previous.

I've tried resanding the wood, heating the wood, using water before the stain and I even tried a water based stain as well (the gel ended up working better).

Even if I soak the wood in the stain it won't take it.

My next move was to perhaps try a wood dye and I was considering a deck cleaner/prep product as this was the only product that I could find that speaks of opening the pores.

Do you guys have any tips or tricks for dealing with getting the wood to open up, and/or getting a dark even color without the lose of the grain?

Thanks!

Dave

[Sam Yerardi]

Sam,

I would definitely give dyes a try. I think the problem with the gel stain approach is that the gel is doing exactly what it is supposed to do - stay on the surface and not penentrate much at all. Given that maple is an extremely tight grain wood and gives a lot of people fits when it comes to finishing, IMHO gels probably aren't the way to go. Dyes will go straight down into the wood so you'll want to try it on some scrap to make sure you've got the coloring mixed the way you want it.

[Sam Waters]

That sounds like great advice.

Do you guys have a good source for dyes and anything that a first time dye user should be aware of?

[Jim Becker]

HomesteadFinishing.com

[Doug Shepard]

How fine of a grit are you sanding to? I've run into problem with maple before if it's sanded too fine - seems to burnish the wood or something where it wont take stain well. Seems like 150 or 180 was a good stopping point with the maple I had some issues with.

[Steve Schoene]

You've gotten advice on the two solutions for your problem. The best is to use a dye. Penetration isn't a problem for the molecular size colorant in the dyes. Pigment is much more coarse and won't penetrate in close grained hardwood, and when it does, it often does so unevenly. You can get a darker look by stopping at a rougher grit. But what you are doing is just coloring sanding scratches, not quite as nice a look as coloring the wood.

[glenn bradley]

That sounds like great advice.

Do you guys have a good source for dyes and anything that a first time dye user should be aware of?

I'll second Homestead Inc. The powder dissolves quickly in almost any vehicle. Your choice of water, alcohol, etc. will need to be based on what your previous attempts were made with to avoid compatibility issues.

I would not sand any finer than 220 grit unless you are sanding end grain to achieve a match then I go 320 - 400 depending on the wood.

Test scraps are always a good idea for me when trying a new product or technique. Just when I think I got it figured, I'll get nailed ;-)

[Sam Waters]

How fine of a grit are you sanding to? I've run into problem with maple before if it's sanded too fine - seems to burnish the wood or something where it wont take stain well. Seems like 150 or 180 was a good stopping point with the maple I had some issues with.

I finished it with 220 aluminum oxide, hit it with some water to raise the fuzz, then final sand. The part is fabricated with grains being perpendicular so the more course stuff is hard to do. However, I did go back in desperation and tried to open it up with an 80 grit, hit is again with the stain and still had the same problem.


You've gotten advice on the two solutions for your problem. The best is to use a dye. Penetration isn't a problem for the molecular size colorant in the dyes. Pigment is much more coarse and won't penetrate in close grained hardwood, and when it does, it often does so unevenly. You can get a darker look by stopping at a rougher grit. But what you are doing is just coloring sanding scratches, not quite as nice a look as coloring the wood.

You're exactly right!


I'll second Homestead Inc. The powder dissolves quickly in almost any vehicle. Your choice of water, alcohol, etc. will need to be based on what your previous attempts were made with to avoid compatibility issues.


I would not sand any finer than 220 grit unless you are sanding end grain to achieve a match then I go 320 - 400 depending on the wood.

Test scraps are always a good idea for me when trying a new product or technique. Just when I think I got it figured, I'll get nailed ;-)

This is great advice. I had contacted WoodKote in the past and was hoping that they would have provided an answer more along the lines as this.


HomesteadFinishing.com

:D

Thanks to everyone for all your time and help!!

Much appreciated!!

[Sam Waters]

Well just thought I would drop in and say how impressed I am with how the dyes are working.

They sunk right into the wood and seem to be concluding with a theme that I have never achieved with a stain. The look and color is perfect.

With that, do you guys think there are any concerns with covering a water based dye using a spray on polyurethane?

[glenn bradley]

Well just thought I would drop in and say how impressed I am with how the dyes are working.

They sunk right into the wood and seem to be concluding with a theme that I have never achieved with a stain. The look and color is perfect.

With that, do you guys think there are any concerns with covering a water based dye using a spray on polyurethane?

Should not be a problem. If you get unexpected results on a test scrap you can seal the color with a clear, dewaxed shellac before your poly topcoat.