understanding sizing?

[Angus Hines]

Not sure what 8/4 or 4/4 means to me they would simply convert to 2" and 1". Is this correct or can someone explain this new sizing stuff to me?

Thanks
Angus

[glenn bradley]

Probably get a better number of responses if this wasn't in the "Manufacturer's Forums" area. Maybe the moderators will move it for you.

To your question; yes, for whatever reason lumber is measured in 1/4" increments called "fours". 4/4 (pronounced 'four-four') lumber is 1" thick. 12/4 (pronounced 'twelve-four') lumber is 3" thick.

I assume the same gremlins are responsible that cause us to buy liquor in fifths ;-)

[mike holden]

I would add this to Glenn's explanation:
The measurements are approximate - these are rough surface boards and may vary by 1/8 inch or so from the calculated inch.
Sort of like 1 X 2 lumber being 3/4 X 1 1/2 and so on.
Just go with the flow, its woodworking jargon.
Mike

[glenn bradley]

Thanks to Mike for adding. I really should have pointed out that 4/4 when sanded for you (S2S or S4S) is more like 13/16" to 7/8". So. don't get excited if you see some 8/4 that isn't 2" thick, its normal. My local lumber yard's 4/4 is always 13/16" or thicker so I can always get a good 3/4" surfaced board out of it. The 'fours' system is talking about rough lumber and even then is not machine-shop accurate.

[Roger Ronas]

4 is also pronouned quarter.

So when I'm looking at a 4/4 board, to me that is a 4/quarter board
.

To each their own.

It's all the same really.

Roger

[Angus Hines]

Thanks for the explanation guys....

[Matt Campbell]

Glenn,

Thanks for the suggestion. I went ahead and moved it.

Good explanations. I recently read somewhere how this "quarter system" came about. I'll have to dig around. :confused:

[Jason Beam]

I've never heard it pronounced as "fours" myself, but I ain't been around very long. It's always been "quarters" to me. As it was taught to me, it meant the rough-sawn board is x quarters of an inch thick - 4 quarters of an inch thick is 1".

Maybe the "fours" pronounciation is a regional thing? :)

[Dave MacArthur]

I had heard that the kerf of a large circular saw blade for sawmills was nominally 1/4" thick, so wood was measured in integers or units of that.

Here's a link to a good forestry site that talks about wood grades (FAS etc.) as well as sizing terminology. A good read before you go visit the sawmill, so you know what you're buying!
http://www.globalwood.org/tech/tech_hardwood_grade.htm

[Jim Becker]

Not sure what 8/4 or 4/4 means to me they would simply convert to 2" and 1". Is this correct or can someone explain this new sizing stuff to me?

Correct, relative to the nominal thickness of rough timbers. 4/4 fresh cut is generally about 1 1/8" thick, give or take, depending on the sawyer. Once it's dry, it's closer to an inch, more or less. And one inch is what the people you buy the lumber will use to figure board feet for 4/4 stock when they are tallying up your purchase.

Measurements in 'quarters' are typically only used for sawyer's specifications and during the lumber buying process. Once you have it, you'll mill it to the thickness you need for your project and you'll measure that in inches/fractions or metric, depending on your preferences.

[glenn bradley]

4 is also pronouned quarter.

So when I'm looking at a 4/4 board, to me that is a 4/quarter board
.

To each their own.

It's all the same really.

Roger

And thanks to Roger as well. I really should round out my responses before I hit that 'Submit' button :o. On the upside, doing it this way gets more of us talking :D.

I wonder if the way we say the terms is geographical? I have read the phrase 8-quarter but haven't heard it spoken that way in SoCal. Not that I have any vast experience to draw from; the folks in the three yards I visit say four-four, eight-four, etc. I'm gonna say four-quarter next time I make a run just for the experimental fun of it. Jason is just up in the middle of the state and he states that they say 'quarter' up there. Could be an interesting poll(?). Maybe I should get a life. :rolleyes:

[Jason Beam]

LOL Glenn!

I'm interested, too. I'd never heard it they way you mentioned myself - now i really AM curious to know the geographical spread of this here lumber measuring thingy! :D

[John Fricke]

only have ever heard wood size designated by quarters

[Rick Moyer]

"Quarter" in PA as well, at least that's how I've always heard it.

[Dave MacArthur]

I would hazard a guess that most of the folks you hear saying "four fours" instead of "four quarter" are Borgish employees who saw it written (Glenn excepted!), and just started saying it as written. This would be the first sign to me that the guy I was talking to didn't know what he was talking about, and I'd politely wander around until I found an older geezer to help me. And SoCal doesn't count, because they say everything D3wdiSh and wrong there--let's stick with places they speak English for this survey! ;)

[Rod Sheridan]

It is pronounced quarter up here also.

Somewhere I have a scalers ruler from my Grandfather, it's in quarters for thickness measurement, as well as being graduated in board feet for estimating the amount of wood in a log.

Regards, Rod.

[Bill White]

"Quarters" here in Mississippi too.
Bill

[Peter Quinn]

Here in Connecticut its 4-quarter,5 quarter, 6 quarter etc. Guy says "four-four", I send him to stand near the green lumber pile. 4/4 S2S measures 15/16ths for most of its length, often call hit and miss or 'skim' planed, so you can read the face grain, still get 3/4 after flattening. 1X? is finished goods, follows different rules reguarding nominal vrs actual size. Also most FAS hardwood is rounded up/down width wise on the 1/2 inch, so 6 3/8" sells as 6" wide board, 6 1/2" sells as 7"! Measurements taken from the widest part of the board, not the skinnest!

[James Hart]

I grew up in Chicago, have lived in Phoenix. They say quarters in both places. 25 years ago or so, my woodshop teacher cousin took me to Paxtons in Chicago to pick up some wood. When I asked the guy for four-four red oak, my cousin pulled me aside and told me 'it's 4 quarters.'

[Jim Becker]

Borgish employees

Good one, Dave!!!!!!!!!:p

[Russ Sears]

Ditto on the use of "quarters" in PA. I was a Forest Products major at Penn State and that's how we were taught.
The size referred to the thickness of the lumber after drying but before milling.

[Glen Blanchard]

It's "quarters" in TX. Maybe it is indeed a regional thing. Around Glenn's house, it is pronounced "fours" and the rest of the U.S. says "quarters". :D

[Bill Jepson]

Group,
There are many industries or government agencys that use a "unit" measurement. AN standards or army/navy was the governments standarization effort for hoses before the beauracrats got involved. The AN unit was 16ths so a dash 8 (-8) hose was 1/2" ID or 8/16. There are many things like that we are working to a standard. When I went to get my pilots license I had a heck of a time because I had been a machinist for many years. Machinists use the cartisian coordinate system where 0° is at 3 O'clock and accends going counter-clockwise. The compass system everyone uses 0° is at 12 O'clock and accends clockwise toward the east. I was always converting in my head! Got used to the cartisian system and had to "un-learn". The point is not to be intimidated by the jargon. Most places are glad to see a newbie since they know he will need a lot of new stuff as he gets up to speed! Persist and don't be afraid to ask for the exact measured size you want, the old hands are usually glad to help.
Bill J

[Scott Loven]

I saw a guy cutting logs with a steam powered saw mill a while back. He had a lever that he would move back and forth, each time advancing the log a 1/4 inch. I imagine that rough lumber was called out by how many times you had to move the lumber forward with the stick. 4 times would be 1 inch or 4/4, 2 inches was 8/4 etc.

[John Eaton]

I've always heard "x/quarter" from Tennessee down to Florida and over to the Carolinas.

-- John

[Brian W Evans]

"Quarters" in Vermont, too. Been to several saw mills and retailers, know lots of guys with their own portable mills - never heard "fours."

[Glen Blanchard]

Well let's not give Glenn too hard of a time here. At least he's got a real cool name (even though he spells it wrong). :D

[Greg Hines, MD]

Angus,

The other thing not mentioned in this thread is that the x/4 designation is for rough lumber only. That is why 4/4 lumber, when planed to thickness, is only 3/4" thick, when you remove 1/8" off of each face.

Doc