Figured Maple for my EC!

[Chris Padilla]

I have scored some nice deals on curly and spalted maple lately. I have plans to use the figured wood in some raised panels on the EC (see Design Forum) I am working on.

This bookmatched spalted maple was very, very nice. I just hope I can work it okay. It is my first time with such a piece. It has pits and knots and a few checks and cracks. I was thinking to fill-in and stabilize certain portions of it with some liquidy epoxy...perhaps tinted a light brown or tan if I could manage it.

Is there a way to make epoxy very fluid? Can you just add something like mineral spirits or turpentine or something?

Enjoy!

[Chris Padilla]

Here are a few more shots:

[Jim Becker]

Oh, boy...Donnie's gonna be jealous since he's the king of "figured stock scores"! That's really nice material, Chris.

With the spalted panels, you'll just want to be very careful when milling it as the "whiter" stuff sometimes is a little punky. Sharp knives, light cuts and care should make things work out fine, however. If you need to fill some holes, the colored resin idea is a good one. West Systems is a good choice for that, IMHO.

[Tyler Howell]

Nice looking stuff. Looks like good help too. Enjoy

[Chris Padilla]

Ah, yes. That is my daughter, Francesca. She just turned 2 on 2/24. She's such a California blonde and the reason I look forward to comng home every night! :D

[Donnie Raines]

Good looking stuff....the curl is pretty broad! Are you going to dye the curly or leave it natural?

As far as the spalted maple, I use CA glue to stabilize the "rot" on the more delicate spots. I should note, I only use CA glue when I intend on finishing the lumber natural...no dyes/stains. The CA glue does not take color well(..pretty much like any glue marks would. However, when you leave it natural, it is invisiable. If the surrounding surfaces are "pitted", I will use soem clear pore filler to smooth out the surface. This could take a few coats on the pitted area's. since the maple is "tight" grained, you need not worry about covering the entire surface with the pore filler. When you top coat with a film finish, the surface will blend in evenly.

If you plan to add color to the curly, i would be happy to share some of the application's I use.

DonnieR

[Bob Marino]

Hey Chris,

Beautiful wood...and a beautiful daughter!

Have you chosen a finish for the boards?

Bob

[John Miliunas]

Wow! :D That's beautiful. Wood's pretty nice too! :D Seriously, exquisite looking stuff and your daughter's a cutie! Can't hardly believe it's been 11 years since our baby was that old! Enjoy her while you can. :cool:

[Terry Hatfield]

Chris,

Those pieces are super!!!!! It's gonna be one outstanding EC.

Just make sure you don't have any "gunk on your General" when you are cutting them up. :D

t

[Jamie Buxton]

Chris ---

First, you gotta tell another Bay Area guy where you got that maple.

Second, yes you can get very fluid epoxy. The epoxies intended for fiberglassing are designed to be very fluid so that they wet every little fiber. West System is a major manufacturer. I get it at West Marine, a boating supply place, in Mountain View. They also have stores in San Jose and Santa Cruz.

Jamie

[David Rose]

Chris, some epoxies will thin with toluene. I'd check with the manufacterer of whatever you use. Some I've tried lost some of their strength when thinned then allow to set up. Even though the stuff seems pretty thick it will really creep its way into crevices as it comes.

I wish you success on keeping it flat! :rolleyes: That was the worst problem I had with some spalted figured maple I used in some panels. After getting to rough thickness, I would sticker and weight that stuff like you are trying to compress it. LOTS of weight! All mine came from one thick plank that had air dried for 25 years. It didn't move a lot coming off the bandsaw, but within a few hours some pieces 1/2" thick had cupped, bowed, twisted into pretzels! They ended up going into thick, wide frames that so far have held them flat after I reflattened them with water and weight.

I never could get the stuff to suface with hand tools. Best results were surfacing with a planer with sharp knives and moistening the wood surface. Oh, and using all the tricks of going at angles into the blades and such.

Though I don't have a lot of experience, if I were to do it again, I would go quickly from the bandsaw to the planer before "things" start happening.

Great find! And like others said, the wood is purdy too. :D

David

[Philip Duffy]

Hi, Chris, I have used System II exoxy to fill a large crack in a large, and turned test piece. The coloration was enhanced by sawdust and that slowed the curing process greatly, to a week!. A friend of mine ties flyfishing flies and makes the salt water ones with expoxy heads and uses modeling paints as a tint. That slows the cure some, from 5 to ten minutes. Suggest you experiment with 5 min. expoxy- Devco is favored by the fly-maker, and see what happens. I would be interested in your results, as would several others. Phil

[Dick Parr]

Chris,

Beautiful little daughter! I had three blonds myself, they took after their mother. :D The wood looks good, and will look better once it is in the door fronts of the EC. Remember, Pictures when you’re done! :cool:

[Jamie Buxton]

Though I don't have a lot of experience, if I were to do it again, I would go quickly from the bandsaw to the planer before "things" start happening.



David, in my experience, resawn lumber often moves quite a bit in the first couple days after resawing. I don't know if it is built-in stresses relieving themselves, or it is that the resawn face now sees the humidity level of the shop directly. At any rate, I try to let resawn lumber sit for a week or so before I plane it.

Jamie

[David Rose]

Jamie I agree with you on most wood. And I defer to your greater experience as far as this conversation goes too. The reason I was saying to go right to the planer on this one, is my pieces were never flat enough again to plane a couple of hours after resawing. I could keep them flat for about 2 minutes after flattening them with spritzed moisture and weight. I know... I probably should have scrapped the pieces or used them for thinner veneer. But they went into massive frames so I was (am) hoping it would work. This one slab was my only experience with wood like this.

David


David, in my experience, resawn lumber often moves quite a bit in the first couple days after resawing. I don't know if it is built-in stresses relieving themselves, or it is that the resawn face now sees the humidity level of the shop directly. At any rate, I try to let resawn lumber sit for a week or so before I plane it.

Jamie

[David Rose]

Chris, I read the West System instruction this morning. Yes, some Arkies can read... sorta. ;)

They confirmed my statement of loss of strength and water resistance with thinning. Appropriate thinners for their compound are acetone, MEK, and toluene. They instead recommend heating the wood and epoxy with either a heat lamp or heat gun. This will also shorten the cure time, but in this case that probably won't matter or might even benefit. The thinned cured epoxy is still stronger than wood in my tests. It weakens in proportion to the amount of thinner.

David

[Chris Padilla]

Good looking stuff....the curl is pretty broad! Are you going to dye the curly or leave it natural?

As far as the spalted maple, I use CA glue to stabilize the "rot" on the more delicate spots. I should note, I only use CA glue when I intend on finishing the lumber natural...no dyes/stains. The CA glue does not take color well(..pretty much like any glue marks would. However, when you leave it natural, it is invisiable. If the surrounding surfaces are "pitted", I will use soem clear pore filler to smooth out the surface. This could take a few coats on the pitted area's. since the maple is "tight" grained, you need not worry about covering the entire surface with the pore filler. When you top coat with a film finish, the surface will blend in evenly.

If you plan to add color to the curly, i would be happy to share some of the application's I use.

DonnieR

Donnie,

I had planned a natural oil-rubbed finish (Velvit Oil) for the whole EC.

Perhaps I could try the CA glue. What is this "clear pore filler" you refere to?

[Chris Padilla]

Hey Chris,

Beautiful wood...and a beautiful daughter!

Have you chosen a finish for the boards?

Bob

Natural colored Velvit Oil is my current plan for a finish for everything on the EC.

[Chris Padilla]

Chris ---

First, you gotta tell another Bay Area guy where you got that maple.

Second, yes you can get very fluid epoxy. The epoxies intended for fiberglassing are designed to be very fluid so that they wet every little fiber. West System is a major manufacturer. I get it at West Marine, a boating supply place, in Mountain View. They also have stores in San Jose and Santa Cruz.

Jamie
Jamie,

There is a woman on eBay by the name of Sally Jacobs (sallyjacobs) who resides in Eugene, OR. She sells a lot of figured maple and myrtlewood and she is quite pleasant and nice to deal with. She has very nice stuff and the shipping from OR is quite reasonable as compared to the East coast so I found myself buying a lot of wood from her. Of course, now, I'll have you to compete against for the auctions but that is cool...I think I've bought enough from her for my EC so go for it! :D By the way, work with her on shipping...if you plan to buy a lot from her, have her hold the pieces and ship you a bunch at once.

Could you help we out with resawing some of the maple I have? I'd love to learn how to do it (I don't own a bandsaw yet) and I am sure I could trade-off some of my figured wood for some of your shop time and electrons. PM me...let's chat.

[Rob Littleton]

Oh, boy...Donnie's gonna be jealous since he's the king of "figured stock scores"! That's really nice material, Chris.

With the spalted panels, you'll just want to be very careful when milling it as the "whiter" stuff sometimes is a little punky. Sharp knives, light cuts and care should make things work out fine, however. If you need to fill some holes, the colored resin idea is a good one. West Systems is a good choice for that, IMHO.

You got your upgrade then?

[Donnie Raines]

Donnie,

I had planned a natural oil-rubbed finish (Velvit Oil) for the whole EC.

Perhaps I could try the CA glue. What is this "clear pore filler" you refere to?
The product that I am referring to is more often used for/on open grain lumber...ie oak, ash etc. It is "gel" that you wipe on across the grain. By wipeing across the grain you "push" the filler into the pores...or in this cases the small voids that are present with spalted wood's. I work in small area's.. rubs some on, and wipe off also across the grain. Allow it dry over night, use some scoth brite pads to "smooth" out the surface. What you will notice is that in the are'as that there are voids, the filler will build these are's up....which will make for a smoother feeling and smoother looking surface.

If you like a more "natural look"(aside from just raw color), you can avoid this step. I use the filler because I often spray lacquer or shellac for a more "formal" finish.

DonnieR

[Chris Padilla]

Chris,

Those pieces are super!!!!! It's gonna be one outstanding EC.

Just make sure you don't have any "gunk on your General" when you are cutting them up. :D

t

My General officially needs sharpening! I'll have use my CMT rip blade.... :D Brand-new, that one is! :D

[Chris Padilla]

Thanks for the help and comments everyone. I will definately keep the board posted with lots more questions and lots of pics...you can take that to the bank! :D

[John Shuk]

Chris,
I think setting it in my basement on my lumber shelf would stabilize it nicely. Nice Gloat!
John

[Lynn Sonier]

Epoxy can be thinned with acetone. It can be thinned until it is a watery consistency and then applied like paint.
Lynn

[Jeff Skory]

Chris,

You're a big Velvit Oil fan. I am currently finishing a small table with Velvit. I sanded the first two coats in using 400 paper, and have just applied a third coat tonight.

I have a few questions on how you use it:

1) Do you apply more than one coat per day?
2) How many coats do you typically apply?
3) After you have applied all your coats do you put anything else on it or do you polish (or hand rub) the Velvit coat itself?

On a scap piece I applied a couple of coats of Velvit and then put paste wax on it and used my ROS with the white 3M polishing pads. Looks pretty nice, but probably could have used another coat or two of Velvit.

[John Miliunas]

Jeff, not Chris here, but another VO user. I will typically just put one coat per day on. Depending on the species and project, I may do a coat 3 or even 4 times. Then, to finish it off, I will put a final coat on and take my PC palm sander with some 400 or 600 and do the piece while still wet. Work the slurry until it's gone, wipe off until clean. In a day or two, I'll come back and hand-buff it. Looks beeeee-utiful! And talk about smooth! It really does appear to have that "old time" hand rubbed look to it. :cool:

[Chris Padilla]

Wow...more VO users. I kinda thought I was the only one! :)

First of all, since I got my Festool 150/5 ROS and just about every grade of sandpaper they offer to fit it, I go religiously through 80, 100, 120, 150, and 180 (those are the grades for the "rubin" sandpaper from Festool). Switching over to the "brilliant" sandpaper, I then go through 220 and 240 and if I'm in the mood, I might sand through to 320.

Now I apply my first coat of VO and spend a good 10 minutes pushing it around, getting the "dry" spots rewetted and then let it sit for several more minutes and then wipe off the excess and let it dry (cure) for 12-24 hours. If I do my first coat in the morning, I will try another in the evening.

For the second coat, I apply it the same way but this time I'll get out the sander like John does. I put on the next grade of sandpaper and wet sand it and work the slurry around (it'll change colors due to the mixture of VO and wood dust). Let that slurry sit briefly (BRIEFLY!) and then rub it out cross grain with paper towel or cotton rags or whatever. Let that sit for 12-24 hours.

If you're happy, you can stop there or continue on with higher grades of sandpaper in the same fashion. I have 400, 600, 800 and 1200 but I've yet to be in the mood to go more than 400 so I usually stop at 3 applications of VO.

You can pretty much go back and wet-sand your piece any time you like...even weeks later. Since you can "handle" the piece pretty much after you handrub off the VO, I wonder if you need to wait 12-24 hours to start the next application of VO? Since it still needs to cure, probably so.

And, yes, it is baby-butt smooth and looks fantastic. I apply nothing else...no poly, no lacquer, no nothin'! By having nothing but VO on, it can make future repairs to the piece significantly easier.

[Mike Johnson]

I have used both West System and Raka epoxies for making strip canoes, and the Raka is much thinner, therefore making it penetrate small crevices better. It is also much less expensive. I could not see any negatives in its performance once it was cured. I have no financial or other interest in Raka, but I do like their products.

[Chris Padilla]

Thanks, Mike, for providing an alternative. I am sure it is nice to have a thick epoxy as well as a thin epoxy in your shop. Different glues/adhesives for different situations. Why, glue is nearly a tool, right?! :D And you gotta have more than one tool, right?! :D

:D

[Jeff Skory]

Then, to finish it off, I will put a final coat on and take my PC palm sander with some 400 or 600 and do the piece while still wet. Work the slurry until it's gone, wipe off until clean. In a day or two, I'll come back and hand-buff it. Looks beeeee-utiful!

John and Chris,
Thanks for sharing your method. So far I have only been doing the sandpaper by hand. Doesn't the oil make a mess of your palm sanders? I don't have a palm sander, I only have a 5" DeWalt ROS. I'm assuming that you must get a lot more slurry than I do which might be the secret.

So far I have been using paper towels to apply the oil. I did one coat to soak the wood, and then two more where I sanded (lightly) with 400 paper by hand.

Maybe one more coat with my ROS? And then I'll try hand-rubbing.

[John Miliunas]

John and Chris,
Thanks for sharing your method. So far I have only been doing the sandpaper by hand. Doesn't the oil make a mess of your palm sanders? I don't have a palm sander, I only have a 5" DeWalt ROS. I'm assuming that you must get a lot more slurry than I do which might be the secret.

So far I have been using paper towels to apply the oil. I did one coat to soak the wood, and then two more where I sanded (lightly) with 400 paper by hand.

Maybe one more coat with my ROS? And then I'll try hand-rubbing.

Jeff, never tried it with a ROS. I'm thinking that may be just a tad too aggressive, but never know. I would certainly try it on a test piece, first. I suppose you could probably get similar results by hand, though not as efficient. I've always used my PC 330 Speed Bloc sander. It doesn't have a dust collection type design to it and I always make sure to use wet/dry 400 or better. Basically, the "mess" stays below the operating components of the sander. Don't get me wrong: I *love* my Festool ROS units, but for stuff like this or real light seal-sanding, I still grab the Speed Bloc! :cool:

[Chris Padilla]

John and Chris,
Thanks for sharing your method. So far I have only been doing the sandpaper by hand. Doesn't the oil make a mess of your palm sanders? I don't have a palm sander, I only have a 5" DeWalt ROS. I'm assuming that you must get a lot more slurry than I do which might be the secret.

So far I have been using paper towels to apply the oil. I did one coat to soak the wood, and then two more where I sanded (lightly) with 400 paper by hand.

Maybe one more coat with my ROS? And then I'll try hand-rubbing.

Jeff,

In a word...YES...it makes a mess of your ROS. To top it off, I tried it with my Festool 150/5 ROS and now I'm thinking I want a new pad although this one is still holding jeeeeessstttt fine near as I can tell.

Funny thing, I have a Makita palm sander (1/4 sheet kind) that I bought 3 years ago and it has not left the box since it left the store! I am thinking I should make that my dedicated VO wet sander. I have a Makita ROS (BO5010) but since that one is NOT speed-adjustable, I am not going to use it for VO wet-sanding either. My Festool is a speed-adjustable ROS which is why I tried it out but it makes a mess and since I was using the Festool sandpaper on my ROS, it has holes for dust-collection. For some reason, my better judgement left me and I tried wet-sanding with it. :eek:

[Jeff Skory]

Chris, thanks for letting me know your experience. I'll do it by hand for now until I can pick up a cheap sander. BTW - did you use a slow speed?

[Chris Padilla]

Yeah, I had my Festool on '1', the slowest speed...you don't want to flick that oil all over creation.