Cheap stinks

[William Nimmo]

Even after I started buying good tools (festool, sawstop etc) I read some good reviews on a router bit set that was for sale cheap on a popular web site. They came from china but a nice set of 1/2 inch shank bits in an aluminum case. The only negative written on the few reviews was that the labels fell off the styrofoam insert. I think i paid about $129 for about a 60 bit set.
Well I need to make some fluted columns and take out a never used before plunge bit. Then another and another on a practice piece. Holy Crap. Couldnt even get the Festool 1400 router to move through the wood.
I then found I had an Amana bit that I purchased years ago (I thought I way overpaid at the time) that just eased through the wood like butter.
Never again will I buy anything cheap.
Now I will get even more mad when I read questions like, "where can I a good (so and so) cheap.
Buy the best or don't buy anything.

[Jim Becker]

The most expensive tools are the ones you need to replace early and often...

I say that a lot to folks. But I don't mean that everyone should always purchase top-of-the-line, premium products. More to the point, invest in tools and tooling that meet your needs and have the quality required to give you good service over time. In the example of router bits you give, buying the higher quality piece actually costs you less in the long term when compared to buying several low quality products and getting frustrated with them. It's one of the reasons I'm dubious about buying large sets at low prices featuring a variety of profiles. There has to be a reason that the price is what it is... ;)

[Jason Scott]

amen brother, but I still like to buy stuff cheap :D

[John Hain]

amen brother :D

I'll second that.

[Lance Norris]

I can remember my dad commenting on cheap carbide router bits, saying that they didnt last very long. I always thought about that and have only bought Whiteside and Amana. Im lucky that the Amana dealer is only 7 miles and Whitesides are 20 miles away. I recently had to buy a 1" radius core box bit. $$. Ouch. But I know it will last almost forever.

[Dave Falkenstein]

Buying cheap, especially bits and blades, is false economy. If you actually use the cheap bit/blade, chances are it will fail, and you will replace it with a more expensive one, having wasted your money on the cheap version. After all, it is the bit or blade that does the cutting in our hobby/profession. Even if you buy less expensive tools, buy the best bits and blades you can afford, and never buy a unfamiliar brand if you cannot verify the quality as appropriate for your use. Cheap blades make great shop clocks, and cheap bits make frustrated woodworkers.

[Victor Stearns]

Greetings. My Dad used to say,"you get what you pay for". I have to agree. He used to tell me that in a pinch the cheap stuff will work, but in the end go out an buy the good stuff.
I too, used to buy the cheap router bits and blades. Now I buy the good stuff and have not regretted it. I do not have the luxury of having a dealer close enough to just drive and pickup a GOOD bit or blade.
So why buy cheap, more than once, when you can get the best once?
Victor

[keith ouellette]

I bought a large set of cheap china bits ( I assume they are from china) Over 60 for less than $200. They all cut great. I have used about 20 different ones.
They are all 2 flute carbide and all of them cut as well as the two freud bits I own.

I have seen a couple of cheap'os for sale and after reading carefully I found that most of them were high speed steal. I don't know how the router was able to become popular with steal cutters.

My cheap bits work great. Maybe I was just lucky.

[Michael Gibbons]

So far I have only purchased CMT, Freud, Whiteside and 1 Porter Cable cause I was in a hurry and didn't have time to run to Woodcraft so I got it from the BORG. I'm getting more into the" buy them as I need them" mentality. Seems to be working.:rolleyes: The onlt other bits I have are the bits that were delivered with my Keller dovetail jig.

[Wade Lippman]

I saw that for sale and though about buying them. Heck, $2 each; how bad could they be!?

I guess I found out.
Yeah, I don't buy cheap any more; if often wouldn't be worth the aggravation even if they were free.
Which is not to say I don't try to find "inexpensive"; but that's completely different.

[Jeffrey Makiel]

Inexpensive tools have their place in my shop. I'm only a hobbyist.

I use "cheap" router bits all the time and they seem to work fine. I really like them for special projects where I may never use them again.

I've noticed recently on at SMC that if a few specific brands of tools are not purchased, then one has bought junk. I haven't bought a tool in a long time other than router bits. Has things changed that much that most brands are considered inferior now?

Remember...the carpenter blames his tools, the craftsman blames himself. But, if they both use junk, the carpenter will be more proficient at it because he is use to working with them. :)

-Jeff :)

[Gary Keedwell]

Even after I started buying good tools (festool, sawstop etc) I read some good reviews on a router bit set that was for sale cheap on a popular web site. They came from china but a nice set of 1/2 inch shank bits in an aluminum case. The only negative written on the few reviews was that the labels fell off the styrofoam insert. I think i paid about $129 for about a 60 bit set.

Never again will I buy anything cheap.
Now I will get even more mad when I read questions like, "where can I a good (so and so) cheap.
Buy the best or don't buy anything.
Dave....I think he meant this quote.

Gary

[Jim Becker]

Folks, be careful with "context". I don't believe the OP was in any way saying that folks who don't by the premium tools are bad people. He was relating his own experience with his own tools and with his disappointment regarding the router cutters he bought. Let's not continue to warp this thread into something it was not intended to be. The moderators would hate to have to close it or remove it as it's a good topic for discussion. RESPECTFUL discussion... ;)

Jim
SMC Moderator

[Monroe Brown]

...Well I need to make some fluted columns and take out a never used before plunge bit. Then another and another on a practice piece. Holy Crap. Couldnt even get the Festool 1400 router to move through the wood...

The same thing happened to me a few years ago with a Woodline straight bit set I purchased at a woodworking show. I figured 5 bits for 30 bucks it was worth a shot. Loaded up my 1.75 PC router with those bits and they were bouncing off the white oak I was using at the time. My Freud and Whiteside were seen in a different light after that (exceptional value in my opinion). Tried the Woodlines in some ply and pine and they worked OK, but the cuts were still anything but smooth.

Sometimes cheap works, sometimes it doesn't. Given the sums of money it takes to maintain this hobby it can be hard to resist cheap tools.

just my 2 kopeks

MB

[Don Bullock]

There's a big difference between buying cheap and buying quality at a good price.

[Gary Keedwell]

There's a big difference between buying cheap and buying quality at a good price.
I agree Don. ( Dave...I agree with you ....just pointing out what Al might have misinterpreted)
(AL...I don't think all Festool or Saw Stop fans are snobs...maybe some, though;))

Gary

[Charles Cannon]

I bought about 20 of the green Woodcraft bits (1/2 shank) last time they were on sale for $5. I'am sure they are not as good as a $50 bit but when I need to cut flutes in MDF they work fine.
Cannon

[Tim Marks]

Sometimes it is difficult find the decent "good value" line of tools, and after people get burned on cheap junk they end up falling into the trap of buying the most expensive tooling they see.

And sometimes that means instead of having a large variety of decent router bits, you end up with only 2-3 expensive ones, and then can't make whatever you need.

Maybe the moral hear is to get feedback here on what the "good value" brands are for router bits. Of course, usually the answer is CMT or Whiteside, which are definitely not cheap.

[John Keeton]

Most of the bits I have accumulated over the years are CMT and they still cut very well. Seems most less expensive bits are sold in sets, but most bits that I have were purchased a couple at a time. Seems the concern should be not only that they cut well, but whether they stay together. I have always been more concerned with schrapnel than the cut. Most of the moderate priced bits seem to do fine, and I am reasonably confident that they do not have metallurgic defects. And, I guess I generally, and probably wrongfully, do not trust the quality of Chinese production.

[Michael Gibbons]

I'm sure there is a difference between buying "cheap bits" and buying good or great bits "cheap" as in "on sale", which is usually how I try to obtain tools in general.

[Art Mann]

I have bought cheap bits from Holbren and I have been pretty well satisfied. My experience has been that those particular ones cut as well as the Freud ones I have bought but they don't last as long. If I am buying a bit for one time use, I will generally buy the cheap one from Holbren, because life expectancy isn't relevant. I am sure there are some brands of bits that don't cut well at all.

[Bruce Pennell]

I don't get mad when I buy Cheap and they don't work. I expect to get what I pay for. Example; I buy the $10 4 1/2 inch grinders from HF on sale, I buy 5-6 at a time. When (not if) I burn one up in goes in the trash can. My first dewalt 4 1/2 inch grinder lasted longer but at $110 it wasn't much of a value (it burned up also, might have lasted 2-3 times longer than the HF model). Cheap tools have their place. Just don't expect Festool quality from Skil. What really makes me mad is to spend good money and not have the tool work the way it should...I am fighting a Rigid SCMS right now. I've spent 3-4 hours trying blades, cutting technique's, cleaning. For $600 you should get a saw that cuts a good miter (not a POS). :mad:

[James Carmichael]

Yep, after starting the cheap path and backing up, I buy only single router bits as I need them, and then go for Whitesides (unless I see something on sale I know I'll use.)

The only exception are the $5 Woodcraft bits, which get the plywood and mdf duty. Once dulled beyond router use, they make great burnishers.

[John Schreiber]

Yes, the best is better, but good is usually good enough.

For many, waiting until you can afford the best means never starting a rewarding hobby.

"You get what you pay for" may be true at the very top and very bottom of the line, but in between there are a lot of bargains and a lot of overpriced junk.

[Jim Broestler]

About cheap tooling: The first bits I ever bought for my first router - which was a Skil - were a couple Skil 3-bit sets, at the local home center. They're still holding up pretty well. I still use the round overs often.

Cheap stuff can be a way to get started, but I can also see how it can lead to a lot of frustration early on, which might discourage someone in that situation.

Generally speaking, though, I think that maybe the best way to start out is like one guy said: buy as you need it. Buy three or four top-notch bits (straight, roundover, rabbet, maybe), and go from there. The only sets I've seen that look like a safe bet without paying through the nose (and my experience here is admittedly limited) are Timberline, the Amana-made bits that are just a step below Amana.

Tool Snobbery: Yeah, I think that is a bit of a problem, though I think most are trying to 1) steer newbies like me away from some of the mistakes they made; and 2) after dealing with cheap junk for so long, it feels good to know you've got something first rate.

So much of it is subjective, according to individual needs and tastes. If the Harbor Freight machine is suiting your needs, bravo. If that B&D cordless drill didn't last a week and you've made up your mind to jump up to a Panasonic 15.6V, great! So the newbies should be smart in their shopping and get a VARIETY of opinions about tool purchases, and the vets should keep in mind that most newbies aren't needing something built for a production shop, and are probably on a limited budget.

Most guys with a Powermatic TS have been doing this for 30+ years. And most of them I've talked to made do on an old Delta contractor saw for years until then. I try to anticipate growth as a woodworker and buy fairly good tools, but I also try to remember that I've seen an aweful lot of nice work done by guys with a garage full of old Sears stuff.

Skill acquired over time is the best way to learn what kind of tool to buy and when.

[Bill Wyko]

Someone once told me "The bitterness of poor quality lingers long after the cheap price is forgotten" This is especially true with tools. I once had my laminate trimmer in the shop so I bought a HF cheapo. That thing vibrated so bad it could loosen your teeth. It's in a box somewhere unknown now.:D

[Peter Quinn]

New Guy Here. Been reading this site for some time, just signed up to get more interactive. I am a former economist, certified PM66 having, Festool using, Felder wanting tool junkie, not a tool snob (subtle difference) Started out with an old 6" skill saw, a straight edge and a vision (you can do a lot with a skill saw) Also a certified cheap New England yankee. Here's my 2 cents.

Junk is junk at any price. My hands are worth more than any cheap tools will ever save me. Any tool, particularly high speed cutters, need to meet minimum standards for safety, accuracy and life expectancy. You define these based on your needs. Once that's met you start adding options for comfort, ease of use and flexibility, and you typically pay for these options accordingly.

For instance Amana door sets are like mini shaper cutters, shimable, resharpen many times, allow for different stock thickness where aplicable, perfect balance, real pleasure to use. Pricy? No, great tooling at a fair price. Cheap set for half the price can't do 1/3 the work. If you need one bit to make a few doors of the particular size it makes one time, then it meets your needs. If you are doing this thing for a lifetime, making different door thickness on different projects (3/4,7/8, 1 1/8) then you might save in the long run with Amana.(not a salseman, just a fan)

I was given for free a basic set of Woodtec brand Chinese router bits via a brain surgeon (no joke) who gave up woodworking after a near miss with his router (guess his hands were too valuable too!) Some were brand new. The bearings were sloppy, badly fit or no dust shields, and the first one I spun woobled like a gyro. I gave them back! Too expensive! Plus ruined wood has a cost too.

I have about 40 of those $5 Tiawanese woodcraft green bits. All basic shapes, small profiles. I have never had one fail to perform perfectly. Smooth clean cuts, great bearings, last a long time between sharpenings...oh yea...good bits can be sharpened! I feel silly paying $10 to have a $5 bit sharpened, but they aren't always on sale for that price. Plus I just cant scrap a cutter with 5-10 sharpenings left in it. Waste of natural resources. If you see them dont hesitate to stock up. I have also had great luck with Infinity tooling for the shaper, never tried the router bits. My best/most often used bits are Amana/Onsrud/CMT/Whiteside. In a pinch Freud will do.

I am part time semi-pro at this, and I love it. I guess pure hobbysts have different needs/budgets. But seriously, if you do this for pure fun, isn't it more fun to buy and use good tools? Isn't it more fun to breath less saw dust than more? (Festool has great dust collection) Save up, do good work with the tools you have and buy the good stuff as you can afford it. Get creative with what you have and grow slowly. You are not missing out on some great experience by getting the instant gratification of filling a space with wobbly inacurate low budget junk. I have some Chinese tools that work well. All of my American machines work great. Each of my European tools is one of my best.

[keith ouellette]

I have read all the replies and it seems most people have been burned by cheap cutters or tools at one time or another. My first tool purchase was a european combo machine that had great reviews and was not what I considered cheap though I am sure it was not best of bread either. I was very disappointed and sent it back.

My next tool purchase was middle of the road in price but has been perfect so far. My jet exacta saw which was much less than more expensive saws.

As far as cutters go. I looked at woodline (rather cheap in price) and freud at a wood show. The bearings looked the same. The carbide was the same thickness. The 1/2" shafts were the same. The shims were the same. The price was very different.

The woodline are performing very well.

Bargain hunting can be hit or miss. You don't always get what you pay for. Sometimes you can pay a lot and get very little. Some times you can pay very little and get a lot.