My ignorance is still showing....

[Chris Barnett]

For turning larger bowls, is a 3/4 bowl gouge too large? Can it reasonably be re-ground to the Ellsworth type shape and used as such with success?

Is there any reason to have a bowl gouge with the standard shaped grind since the Ellsworth or Irish grind is so popular? Was considering a 3/4 gouge due to weight advantage when necessary, but this might be just an absurdly large tool!

A-n-d, would a 1/4-inch or a 3/8-inch be a better size gouge if a 1/2-inch Ellsworth is also available?

Too many questions and so little time.

Thanks
Chris

[David Walser]

That doesn't mean you won't want one!

Seriously, you can turn just about any large bowl with a 1/2" bowl gouge and a "standard" grind. The advantage of a larger gouge is that it will hog out the shape of a bowl more quickly -- assuming your lathe's motor will take the extra load! (I've stalled my 2 hp 220 volt lathe by taking too heavy a cut with my 1/2" gouge. I'm sure I could stall the motor all the more easily with a larger gouge.) How big do you need to go? Supposedly, Mike Mahoney uses a 5/8" gouge for roughing out his bowls. The advantage of a swept back shape is similar -- it's easier to take heavier cuts and to use the side of the gouge as a scraper to quickly profile the bowl.

The advantage of a standard grind is that it is better at a push cut, leaving a cleaner surface. A standard grind can still take a heavy cut, just not quite as heavy as something more swept back. A standard grind is also better for use on the inside of a bowl. It's shape allows for an easier entry cut and for you to ride the bevel farther along side/bottom of the bowl.

I have both types of grinds on my 1/2" bowl gouges. The only other size of bowl gouge I own is a 3/8" gouge with a standard grind.

YMMV.

[Mike Vickery]

3/4 gouges are usually used with a standard grind and only to turn the through the transition bottom of bowls.

As far as do you need a standard ground gouge, you will get different answers from diffeent folks. Some like them for the above mentioned use, some pros like trent Bosch use them for final finishing cuts and claim it will give you the best finish.

personally for roughing out I usually exclusively use a 1/2 fignernail grind. For finish turning I usually use a 3/8ths fingernail grind and some times if it is deep I use a 1/2 with a straight grind for the transition on bottom.
But their are many many ways to do it and tons of opinions.

[Jim Becker]

I see no reason for anything larger than the 5/8" (1/2") Ellsworth or similar gouge unless you are turning something that far exceeds the size that most lathes can handle. The only advantage you might have with the larger tool, IMHO, is being able to overhang the rest a little farther without chatter, but ideally, you want your rest to match the job and stay close to the contour, even on very large pieces.

Don't get hung up on getting a whole pile of expensive tools. Not necessary. A few of the basics will be what you will use 95% of the time for almost anything bowl- or vessel-like you will turn.

[Bernie Weishapl]

I agree with all that a 1/2" Ellsworth or Irish grind is about as big as you need. I use a P & N 3/8" and 1/2" for my finial 2 or 3 cuts of a bowl. It is easier to use for a push cut and leaves the surface exceptional smooth. I did a ash bowl today and started sanding at 180.

[Reed Gray]

First, for me, I like big heavy tools, they just feel better in my hands. For my roughing cuts, I like a scraper: 1 1/2 to 1 1/4 wide by 3/8 thick and about 75 degree bevel. They do great for removing a lot of material in a short time, and when rounded, cut with both push or pull cuts (when roughing, and taking heavy cuts, direction of cut isn't important, as you will clean it up with lighter cuts later).

Just about any gouge will work on the outside of the bowl, Ellsworth/swept back/Irish grind or standard (which I think of as the Mahoney/Battey grind; kind of fingernail grind, 40 degree bevel, rolled in a 40 degree arc on a table while grinding). There is generally a smooth flow from the bottom to the rim of the bowl, and just about any cutting edge can do that.

On the inside it is a slightly different thing because you have 3 areas to turn, the side, the transition, and the bottom. Getting down the side is easy, and again, just about any gouge can do that (note, some people do use a spindle roughing gouge for this. It is possible to get away with it, but most who try have nasty catches and don't try again). The Ellsworth gouge is nice here because it has a fairly blunt angle (60 degrees or so) so on most standard and shallower bowls, it goes through the transition, and across the bottom. The flutes are more vertical (roll slightly away from the cut), and as you make the transition, you roll the flutes more onto the side, so the flatter bevel of the nose can ride through the transition and bottom of the bowl. The standard grind can't make the transition, or go across the bottom because of the flatter bevel angle. On deeper bowls, the Ellsworth grind has trouble making the transition and going across the bottom. The edge of the bowl and some times the tool rest makes it more difficult to angle the tool properly. Here I use a gouge that is ground at about 80 degrees, because I can ride the bevel through a steep transition and across the bottom of the bowl because the handle is almost parallel to the bed of the lathe, and not at much of an angle. I have seen some people who will grind a secondary bevel on their gouges so that they can make the transition and go across the bottom.

The size of the gouge isn't very important in making a finish cut, you know the kind where you get those whispy shavings that float in the air. The amount of pressure you put on the gouge determines how fine of a cut or how heavy of a cut you make. Here what is most important is what feels best in your hands. The only real difference is bigger heavier tools can hang out farther off the tool rest without vibration and chattering. You also don't have to move the tool rest as often.

Now, as far as roughing cuts, if you are using a gouge, the grind is important. The swept back design has more blade edge that you can present to the wood than a standard grind. You roll it on its side, and push (mostly on the inside of the bowl) or pull (on the outside of the bowl). This is actually a scraping cut. The gouge does a fair job of scraping, the scraper does a better job.

My preference for gouges are 5/8. I have never tried a 3/4 but is will work fine. I do use my big gouges on anything I can fit it into, from 2 inches to 18 inches. If you are doing roughing cuts, it helps to have horse power porportional to how much you are trying to take off at once.

robo hippy