Pine Wood Floor Finishing

[Dora Evans]

I soon will be attempting to install 750 sq ft of 8" wide knotty pine flooring in my home. I am a bit stressed out about the staining part. The company I will be buying it from sells their own stain which also contains a sealant/lacquer? Apparently with this product when there are scratches or wear you just have to deal with the damaged spot and not have to redo the entire floor. Now the problem....my brother did this work also, with an antique walnut color, and now I see that there is a whitish film just where the knots are. What is the cause of this and how can I prevent the same thing happening? Thanks for your help:)

[Steve Schoene]

Without knowing more about the stain/sealant, etc. it's pretty hard to tell what might be going on. What is the brand and exact product name that you are dealing with? If the company is reluctant to tell you exactly what their material is--ask to see the MSDS. (Material Safety Data Sheet) And, just to be sure, are the materials your brother used exactly the same?

[Jim Becker]

What Steve said...and personally, I'm not fond of anything that combines the color and the finish in one step in most cases, especially with hard-to-color woods like pine.

For the record, all of the flooring in our new addition is 11" wide yellow pine. On a test piece of scrap, I was able to get a color "close to" the color of the wide, pumpkin pine (white pine) in the original house using water soluble dye from Homestead Finishing with some experimentation. Do note that I top coated my samples to insure I was looking at the actual end-color. I do not presently know what the floor finishing folks will be using for color, but will certainly be "monitoring" that when it happens!

[Dora Evans]

It was recommended to me to use a color and finish in one step because it would be easier to touch up worn or scratched areas being as it is a soft wood. Not that I mind the natural worn antique look. But I wouldn't want to be sanding down and restaining every 2 years either. What products would you recommend then as a good finish which would last awhile? Remember, I will be staining it a dark color. Thanks much. Appreciate your help.

[Jim Becker]

Dora, using a product that colors and finishes in the same step is a very difficult task, IMHO. You are going to have so many problems with noticeable overlaps unless you spray...and spraying finishes like that is a big sticky mess. And whoever is telling you that touch-ups will be easy with a combined finish likely hasn't had to do them very much.

If you want to try this out, get a can of Minwax Polyshades from the 'borg and a long piece of pine. Cut up the board into 2' sections and edge glue the pieces into a panel. Sand smooth. Try to finish that one board so that the color is even over the entire panel with no lap marks, etc. And be sure to do three coats which is typical for a floor finish.


(You'll also learn why a gentleman from Texas named Jim Kull referred to Polyshades as the worst thing to ever happen to a can... :D )

[Dora Evans]

Thanks Jim for the advice. So what do you recommend as far as a stain product and how then is the best finish to put on pine wood flooring. I would like to have a satin finish.

[Steve Schoene]

I'll jump in with some thoughts. After having the flooring professionally installed and sanded, I would test some TransFast powder dye (the water soluble variety) and work out the concentration that gives you the desired darkness. I would use a sponge mop to apply this with a wet coating. I'd have someone following behind sponging off any puddles that remain. You want it fully wet so that the dye concentration controls the darkness but it shouldn't remain sopping wet for long enough to swell the pine.

For the floor finish I think I would use Waterlox, starting with several coats of Waterlox Original/Sealer and finishing with one or two coats of Satin if the Original/Sealer is too shiny. Waterlox has some good info on this--check out http://www.waterlox.com/site/478/default.aspx

You could use an oil based polyurethane floor varnish. It would be a bit more abrasion resistant and likely require fewer coats but if scratched (and on pine it will be scratched and dented) it will be more difficult to repair.

[Andrew Long]

My personal tastes, but I would not use stain. What works nice on yellow Pine flooring (or knotty pine), is two or three coats of Danish Oil (depending on how much the wood soaks up); allow to FULLY cure several days. Top coat with a water-based satin Acrylic modified Poly floor finish like Varathane Diamond according to directions.

Just a thought... if the knotty pine is a White Pine species, have you considered southern Yellow Pine flooring? Little more durable for pine floors, and friendlier on the wallet than old growth Heart Pine (also Yellow Pine).

[Dora Evans]

Thanks Steve for your reply and recommendations. Just to say, I have stained many pieces of furniture successfully but have never tackled this big a job so that is why I am asking alot of questions. I know we can do it, I just want to do the right thing with this big of an area. I did look at the waterlox site and am impressed. So, to understand correctly, I am to stain first and the waterlox basically is the finish to give it more durability. And my apologies, hubby has informed me that we will be buying "red" pine. Now with using the waterlox, 1) is it fairly easy to apply? I have read about some issues 2) are reparations easy to do with this product? how?

[Dora Evans]

Andrew.....I have seen unstained pine and indeed it is beautiful. But for our home decor, I feel a darker color will look richer.
Thanks for your input though!

[Steve Schoene]

I wouldn't think it would be more difficult than any of the possible alternatives. I'd use a well washed lambswool floor varnish applicator, putting on thin coats. You might want to start with a brush along the edges or corners. For the final satin coat be sure to frequently stir the can so that the flatting agent doesn't settle out leaving some areas shinier than others.

Waterlox will touch up pretty well. Just lightly scuff the area to be recoated and apply a thin coat. About the only choices that would be easier would be shellac or a finish that doesn't put any film on the surface. But that kind of oil finish offers little protection and has to be renewed regularly as a matter of course.

[Dora Evans]

Steve...thanks for your reply. I now know what is in the product that the wood company is selling.....Danish oil and 40% varnish.....any comments on this?

[Jim Becker]

Sounds like they are basically kicking up the varnish ratio by adding more. "Danish Oil" is generally an oil/varnish mixture already. Many folks make their own by mixing BLO, varnish and mineral spirits in a 33/33/33 ratio. What they are trying to sell you will certainly be fine for an initial coat (although it will not darken much unless they are combining something like tinted Watco in their formula...) but it is not going to be all that durable for the top coats. IMHO, of course.

[Steve Schoene]

Contrary to how it sounds, there are no Danes squeezed to produce Danish Oil, it is a mix of oil and varnish, usually thinned quite a bit. Adding varnish to Danish oil makes the combination somewhat more like varnish, but since it would still contain about 15%-20% oil mixed with varnish and thinner, it will still be very soft, as Jim indicated. Danish oil must never be left as a film on a surface--excess must be wiped off. That's because it is very soft. This won't be quite as soft, but still rather on the soft side. If you are to apply this yourself, a thinned varnish will be as easy as their concoction, but will be MUCH harder and more durable. A product such as Waterlox Original/Sealer or Waterlox Satin will still repair easily down the road, but need it less often.

PS Bob Flexner is the source for the bit about squeezing Danes I have borrowed shamelessly.

[Dora Evans]

From all the reading I am doing on this topic, it seems that Waterlox is quite popular. Would I add the color stain to it or stain first and then apply Waterlox?

[Jim Becker]

Stain/dye first than apply the finish.

[Dennis Lopeman]

Stain/dye first than apply the finish.

I think that is the answer I was looking for!! Resurrecting an OLD thread! LOL

although... I was actually looking for when to put on the Zinssers Seal Coat... I'm thinking after the stain. before the EM6000...

[Cameron Reddy]

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4002/4456240116_8e6bdc5673_o.jpg

Same floor under different light:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2755/4456250690_cbb075a4e9_o.jpg

Waterlox with lots of sanding. I can't recall at the moment how I stained the pine.

Pine will get dinged up pretty quickly. But what the heck.

Below is the first floor I did. It's also pine with Waterlox. This one was intentionally distressed.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2678/4456253744_43799d790b_o.jpg

[Dennis Lopeman]

OMG! The first picture of the shiney floor looks awesome - and wet. I suppose it would be very slippery if you came in with wet shoes!!

[Cameron Reddy]

Here is another picture.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4057/4456877757_fd7e0397c0_o.jpg

The floor isn't as slippery as it looks. Waterlox is relatively soft.

To get that surface I used my Festool ROS 150 up to 6000 grit.