Dust Collector Booster?

[Mike Goetzke]

I have a Jet DC-1100C (cartridge) mounted in the corner of my garage shop as a central DC system with 4" piping. The corner is the only space I have to keep it out of the way. Unfortunately the run to most of my big machines is almost 40' (it really adds up -9'up, 9' down, & 20' away). It's just adequate but I know from feel it has high restriction compared to feeds closer to the DC.

I know now that I probably should have 6" duct work installed but might have a less expensive alternative. Locally someone is selling a used 1HP DC. I was thinking of using the motor/impeller as a "booster" pump. Only thing that bothers me is the possibility of over-blowing the Jet and burning out the motor.

Is this a logical concern and are there others (or other solutions)?

Thanks,

Mike

[Chris Parks]

The idea has crossed my mind also. I will watch with interest.

[David Wilhelm]

Mike I dont have a system yet but have been digging up all the info i can to make sure I get mine in a one shot deal. I'm looking at 1/3 the run you've got and my main point was to get the dust from my sanding on large turnings. If your 1100 is working with 4" is this with only 1 gate open? or can you run more than one saw/tool. I'm like you i'd be worried about amp draw on the jet with the added blower. If you coudl check your CFMs at your tools and amp draw now. then Install the blower and recheck the same. I'm told that running to big of a duct can run the amps up and burn one up as well. It may be a pain and more $$ but if noone can confirm I think I'd upgrade my duct rather than mess with seeing if it would work.

[keith ouellette]

I am guessing that the unit you are using is a 220V and the used 1hp is a 120V. Most 1hp motors are.

Could you put the 1hp dc up on the ceiling down the line to act as a booster. Say 20 or 30ft down. Just bolt it to a stand that is attached to the ceiling and patch it in line. I have seen water pumps done like this.

[Mike Goetzke]

I am guessing that the unit you are using is a 220V and the used 1hp is a 120V. Most 1hp motors are.

Could you put the 1hp dc up on the ceiling down the line to act as a booster. Say 20 or 30ft down. Just bolt it to a stand that is attached to the ceiling and patch it in line. I have seen water pumps done like this.

This is exactly how I was planning on hooking it up, but, I'm worried if this causes the net airflow to excede the capacity of the main DC it might draw too much power (just thinking - same thing could happen to the smaller one too).

Mike

[Anthony Whitesell]

There seems to be a new concept in DC that I don't quite follow. How does increasing the duct size relate to burning up a DC motor?

[Randy Denby]

Should help, and should not overload the motor on either unit. We install small, very small motor wise, booster fans on ducts periodically. The thing is, you will only help to overcome some static loss. It will only allow the 4" to flow to close to maximum, which is around 400-450cfm. The booster fan will introduce some turbulence and create its on static loss, but it will still be a positive increase.

[Randy Denby]

There seems to be a new concept in DC that I don't quite follow. How does increasing the duct size relate to burning up a DC motor?

Unless the increased duct size is a very short run, with no restriction, as in no tool hook-ups.....it shouldnt overamp. Best to check amp draw if you have that scenario.
As for how it relates, squirrel cage and impeller type fans are usually designed to run with static (restriction) pressure , either negative or a little positive . If this is not done, then the motor will try and move too much air and overamp.

[Cody Colston]

I know a guy from another forum with a Woodsucker cyclone who took his old (Delta, I think) DC blower and has it mounted as a "Dirty Air Booster" in-line to keep the CFM up. He has 4" drops to his tools from a 6" main and says it works great.

If you want more info, PM me and I'll give you his e-mail address. I'm sure he will be glad to explain his set-up in detail.

Y'all ever noticed how a bunch of people think that closing all the gates will burn up a DC motor while others think that opening all the gates or boosting the air flow will over-amp the motor and burn it up. Sure is a lot of misinformation out there about DC's, isn't there?

[Jim Becker]

Mike, no matter what you do with the blower(s), you can still only fit so much air in that duct. That's the real limiting factor in your setup. 4" duct can only support a max of about 350 CFM at the velocity your blower(s) can provide simply because of available physical space. Dust collection is about moving air, not "suction". Until you can move more air, there will be little improvement in performance.

[Mike Goetzke]

Mike, no matter what you do with the blower(s), you can still only fit so much air in that duct. That's the real limiting factor in your setup. 4" duct can only support a max of about 350 CFM at the velocity your blower(s) can provide simply because of available physical space. Dust collection is about moving air, not "suction". Until you can move more air, there will be little improvement in performance.

What I looking/hoping for is to increase the air flow at my port that is 40' away from my DC to what I see at the port that is 15' from it. I was thinking adding a booster the the 40' run would accomplish this.


Mike

[Anthony Whitesell]

Are you saying that if I was to take the bags and the inlet off of my DC and turn it on, it will burn out the motor?

[Randy Denby]

Are you saying that if I was to take the bags and the inlet off of my DC and turn it on, it will burn out the motor?

Definitely could ! I have seen it several times with squirrel cage blowers. Someone will take a blower out of a heater/furnace and try and use it for a shop fan....if they dont put a restrictor plate of some sort on the inlet venturi, the motor will cycle on overload, and eventually burn up. Never came across the impellor type doing this, but the theory is the same. ....I'm in HVAC and dont work with impellor type fans very often.

[Jason Beam]

Are you saying that if I was to take the bags and the inlet off of my DC and turn it on, it will burn out the motor?

WILL? probably not. CAN? Probably.

The problem most people have is that they can't wrap their heads around the act of moving air. These things MOVE air. Moving air sounds easy, but it really isn't. Just because it's light doesn't mean it moves easy. To move air, you have to confront, face to face, air resistence. Think of how tough it is to walk around carrying a piece of 1/4" plywood on a windy day. That's a pretty substantial force!

Now... An impeller is just a small version of that 1/4" plywood, spinning REALLY fast. The more air it moves, the more work it's doing. If you close off either the inlet or the outlet, you make the airflow stop. The impeller just sits there spinning the same air around in a circle - very little work happening. But if you give it access to all the air possible, it will do the most work. It takes a little to wrap your head around, but it really does work that way. NO air movement is easy to do. Lots of air movement takes some doin'.

The best way to tell if it's gonna blow yer motor out is to stick an amp meter on it while it's running and see how close to its rated amperage you get.

[Travis Gauger]

I have a similar set up to what I think your after. I keep my DC and compressor in a seperate part of my shop than my end point of use. I have a 2 HP Jet with a canister filter on it. I run out of that with a 6" main for about 30'. At this point the main is entering the ceiling of my shop where it splits into three 4" that go out to my machines. One of these 4" runs is about 15', another about 20', and the last goes about 40'. On the 40 footer, I installed a cheap 4" 1HP DC in line at about the halfway point through the run. It really made a big difference. One of my neighbors is a calibration engineer and brought over a meter to measure my CFM's and with out the 2nd smaller DC running I am pulling around 130 CFMs at my lathe. With the smaller DC on, I am pulling around 270 CFMs. Makes a big difference in my case. On the other hand, for the investment I made to do this, I could have just extended my 6" run out and probably achieved better results without having the noise of the additional blower in my shop. my .02