60Hz motor, 50Hz power

[Dan Barr]

as stated. I'm moving to england and they have 50Hz power 220v.

What can I do for my 60Hz only motors?

-change the motors :mad:
-some sort of electrical conversion :confused:
-store the tools and re-tool in England :eek:
-Go Neander :D


What options are there?

thanks,

dan

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi Dan, you could do the following;

1)replace motors

2) purchase a frequency converter that has a 220V 50Hz input and a 240V 60 Hz output.

3) replace your equipment

4) If your machinery was 3 phase you could purchase a 3 phase VFD and run it at 60Hz output

Depending upon what you have, and what you want, purchasing a combination machine may be the best option when you get there......Rod.

[Lee Schierer]

60 Hz motors running on 50 Hz are going to run slower (about 18%) and will also run hotter

[Julian Wong]

Dan,
I'm kinda in the same situtation as you, but I'm from Asia and will be permanently moving back to asia shortly

Assuming that you're already going to step down the voltage, most of the tools with universal motors can accept 50 Hz power. Just look at the nameplate on the tool. If it doesn't, it'll probably run about 18-20% slower that's all. May take a little more time to finish the project but it's a small price to pay for not having to sell all your tools and buy again when you return.

As for tools with induction motors, if it has a universal mount or non-propriety mount, I'd just swap out a motor. If it has a propriety mount motor, you either have to find someone to custom fabricate a mount with a new motor, or see if the manufacturer carries a motor for Euro/Asia power.

Recently, I starting to invest more in air-powered tools so that I just need a compressor when I move back. No elect concerns ;)

[Greg Mann]

Dan,
Recently, I starting to invest more in air-powered tools so that I just need a compressor when I move back. No elect concerns ;)

I have an air-powered handplane. The more I use it the deeper I breath. :D

[Chris Friesen]

The voltage is fine, no worries there. The frequency difference means that they'll run somewhat slower, but the real problem is that they'll run hotter.

If you're going to be there for a significant amount of time, you may want to consider swapping out your motors or else buying/building a motor/alternator converter to bring the frequency back to 60Hz.

Given the hassle/expense of shipping a whole shop, I'd seriously consider buying used tools over there and then selling them when you're done with them.

[Chris Padilla]

I have an air-powered handplane. The more I use it the deeper I breath. :D

Shouldn't a HANDplane be HANDpowered? :D

[Rod Sheridan]

Running a motor below rated frequency, at rated voltage results in a burned out motor.

The motor uses its induced CEMF to control motor current. At lower speed (lower frequency) the motor is unable to control the current and will draw substantially more than rated current.

The other problem with a single phase motor is that at reduced shaft speed, the centrifugal start switch may not open, resulting in a burned out start winding.

The condensed version, if you plug in your 60 Hz 220 Volt motor in England, you'll let the smoke out permanently.

Regards, Rod.

[Clint Gauthier]

Dan,
I'm kinda in the same situtation as you, but I'm from Asia and will be permanently moving back to asia shortly

Assuming that you're already going to step down the voltage, most of the tools with universal motors can accept 50 Hz power. Just look at the nameplate on the tool. If it doesn't, it'll probably run about 18-20% slower that's all. May take a little more time to finish the project but it's a small price to pay for not having to sell all your tools and buy again when you return.

As for tools with induction motors, if it has a universal mount or non-propriety mount, I'd just swap out a motor. If it has a propriety mount motor, you either have to find someone to custom fabricate a mount with a new motor, or see if the manufacturer carries a motor for Euro/Asia power.

Recently, I starting to invest more in air-powered tools so that I just need a compressor when I move back. No elect concerns ;)

What country in Asia? I don't know about all the countries in Asia, but I know Korea is 60Hz.

[Eddie Darby]

I guess it depends on how much woodworking you do.

If you do it as a hobby, then perhaps there is a community college nearby that you can get some shop time, and then Neander it around home for the small stuff.

[Randy Cohen]

can you generate your own power there or would the fuel for the generator be too expensive? solar charged batteries with an inverter? sell these tools here and buy new ones there? isn't it expensive to ship your tools there anyway?

[Dan Barr]

I dont want to burn out any motors. replacing them will be expensive in england.

shipping for me is free. i'm military.

I could store the tools here for free and neander it over there and pick up what used tools i really convince myself that i need.

I'm looking into the frequency converter right now. this thing might cost a pretty penny, so who knows...

ciao,

dan

[Greg Mann]

Shouldn't a HANDplane be HANDpowered? :D

Should be, Chris, but try using one while holding your breath! :D

[John Cartledge]

We are also 50Hz 220-240v and from the few I have come across that have brought out 220V 60Hz induction (universal) motors its been a simple case of swapping the plugs and turning on. Unless the motor is doing long runs no one seems to have trouble with heat build up, and I have yet to hear of a burned out motor. I also have doubts that the machines run at a noticably lower speed, and that also is from comments. If you have doubts get in touch with a manufacturer that produces machines for the U.S. and U.K. (or New Zealand or Australian) markets and ask what alterations they make to the motors, I doubt its that much.

[Mike Henderson]

We are also 50Hz 220-240v and from the few I have come across that have brought out 220V 60Hz induction (universal) motors its been a simple case of swapping the plugs and turning on. Unless the motor is doing long runs no one seems to have trouble with heat build up, and I have yet to hear of a burned out motor. I also have doubts that the machines run at a noticably lower speed, and that also is from comments. If you have doubts get in touch with a manufacturer that produces machines for the U.S. and U.K. (or New Zealand or Australian) markets and ask what alterations they make to the motors, I doubt its that much.
Let me just point out that there's a difference between a "universal" motor and an "induction" motor. A universal motor (the motors in hand tools, like routers) will run on any Hz, including DC, but is sensitive to line voltage. If a universal motor is designed for 120 volts, you can't run it at 220 volts but you can run it on any Hz.

An induction motor is really designed to run at a specific Hz. You can run a motor designed for 60 Hz at lower frequencies - after all, that's what VFD does to provide variable speed - but the VFD usually also controls the voltage as well as the HZ. If you hook a 60 Hz motor designed for 220 volts to a 50 Hz line at 220 volts, it will:
1. Draw additional current compared to operation at 60Hz
2. Run hotter because of #1
3. Run slower

If you were using the motor on something like a table saw where you only had it powered on for short periods of time it would probably work okay. If you were using the motor on something like a dust collector where it was running continuously I'd be concerned that it would eventually overheat and fail.

You probably have three alternatives:
1. Purchase a VFD which will support a single phase output and set it (lock it) to 60Hz.
2. Change the motors to 50Hz motors.
3. Use the 60Hz motors and change the pulleys to get the tool speed up to the correct speed. Don't use the 60Hz motors for long periods of time and keep your fingers crossed.

I'll go check my motors book and will edit this post if I have errors.

Mike

[Sam Yerardi]

Mike,

You gave good information (I'm an electrical engineer).

[Michael Kieta]

Hi Dan,
Finally! A question I can help answer. I live in Germany and work for the DoD. We have the same current as the UK, but they have funny plugs/outlets there.

I'm sure Mike is right about the potential problems with running the American induction motors here, but so far, I haven't had a problem. I'm also using American small tools with universal motors, such as drills, grinders, router, etc. with transformers. The transformers covert the current to 110 but do not change the Hz. With big transformers of 2000 watts, I'm able to run a Dewalt planer, a jet mini lathe and a 3/4 hp motor that won't run on 220. The transformers are readily available near the military bases, but don't buy them at the BX. There are always some for sale from people who are PCSing, and they're a lot cheaper. I'll add that the same may be true for power tools. Watch the "for sale" items in you base newspaper.

For my bigger motors on my compressor and table saw, I changed the plugs and they seem to work fine. Mike has a point though that I rarely run them very long, so I don't know if overheating could be an issue. I'll start checking the motors. FWIW, I contact Grizzly a couple years ago when I considered buying a table saw from them. I asked about running their motors on European current and they said it wouldn't be a problem. However, I failed to ask if it would void the warranty.

A few other things to keep in mind in planning your move and deciding what to bring. In Germany, most power tools are considerably more expensive than the equivalent tools in the U.S, and that's before the current (horrific) exchange rate. I think that's also true for the UK. However, for the last couple of years, I think China Inc. is making inroads. So many small power tools, such as drills, sanders, etc. are fairly cheap, but they're also cheap tools.

So if you HAVE to HAVE a table saw, you might want to bring one. But...

Another point to consider is the space you'll have available to work. Big houses are the exception rather than the rule in Germany, and my visits to the UK suggests that's probably true there as well. I know you're considering going the neanderthal route, and that works better with limited space.

Finally, check the resources at the base. If you're going to the UK, you're probably Air Force, and their bases tend to have comprehensive resources. Most of the bases have excellent wood shops that are free to use, with an assortment of large power tools. Do the rough work there, take it home and finish the project with your fine selection of infill planes you found at the boot sales. :rolleyes:

I think you're going to have a great time and a wonderful adventure. I love living here, but I'd also love an opportunity to live in England. Let me know if I can help.

I'm sorry this is so long. This is what I get for lurking so long...
Michael

[Dan Barr]

first post too. welcome to SMC! ive found this place to be a goldmine and worth a lot more than the suggested 6.00 donation. I would reccomend $20.00 just based on the sole fact that you can search and find what you want when you want it.

thanks for the post. nice to ehar from someone over there. makes it seem a little less "unknown".

I'm going to call Delta and ask if they think 50Hz will hurt the motors. hopefuly not. I'm also looking into frequency converters as well. if the cost is right, then i'll have my whole shop with me. otherwise, i'll just have to go primarily neander.

I hope to go to germany after the England tour. I hear theyve got some serious woodworking skills over there as well.

thanks again,

dan

[M Toupin]

Space is a premium in Europe, leave the big stuff home. You won't have room for them when you get there and you won't have the weight to get them there without paying. Your hand power tools will work fine with a converter. Despite the dire predictions your motors will be fine unless you run them continuously at or close to FLA. That's so remotely possible that it's not a realistic. Reality trumps theory every time... The only thing you'll notice is they run a bit slower on 50hz. That might even be a moot point as it's entirely possible you'll have 60hz available at work.

Mike