WoodRat Poll

[Glenn Clabo]

Having just recently bought a WoodRat I am amazed at what it can and I’m sure will end up doing. I’m just curious about why there isn’t as much interest in this machine here in North America as there seems to be in other places in the world.

So if you’d just take a minute to take this poll maybe those out there who know how to use it and those of us who are learning about it would benefit from an exchange. If there is no interest…so be it.

For those of you who don't know...this is it.

[Matt Woodworth]

I read on woodshopdemos that it's popular in Europe but they haven't been able to penetrate the American market. I've been reading about the machine lately and I've even ordered and watched their demo cd. According to me, it's basically an upside down router table with full x-y-z movement.

What I liked about it (based on the cd) was that it can do nearly anything. What I didn't like about it is that it didn't seem like an "out of the box" type machine. In comparison, I think I could assemble a Leigh FMT jig and cut perfect mortise and tenons. I could buy a rockler 1/2 blind dovetail jig and cut perfect 1/2 blind dovetail, box joints, etc.

The woodrat requires me to build a jig, build a sample template with marks on it, freehand route it to match the the template, etc. The possibilities are wide open but the "out of the box" solution is incomplete. I normally buy "solutions" while the woodrat is a "platform".

As an owner of the system would you say I'm on target?

[Chris Padilla]

Glenn,

I think the price took care of my interest. John Lucas at woodshopdemos has sold me on A LOT of stuff (Incra, Woodpeckers, Festool, Velvit Oil,CMT, Sommerfelds) and I'm glad he does what he does with the various products. However, he didn't sell me on the WoodRat.

Price, as I said, is probably the number one reason.

Also, wall space is very, very precious in my garage and to be honest, it would take some rearranging to more or less permanently mount the system. Now if they had a version on wheels (or I'm sure I could come up with one) it might work better for me.

IIRC, doesn't the router more less need to be dedicated to the WR? I have my trusty old PC690 (and about a 100 bases and attachments) and my permanently mouted PC7518 in my router table. I would need another router, me thinks.

However, all that said, I would eagerly read any cool stuff you can show us with your WR. Go for it...make me salivate...I may end up with one! :)

[Glenn Clabo]

Matt,
You are right...it can do everything that all the others can do in one...according to what I've seen and heard. However, I have only done finger joints and dovetails right out of the box...after I mounted it of course. There isn't anything done free hand. The parts are always clamped. You move the router which is in a fixture and the slide that the parts are clamped in. Which I think is much safer. I haven't built or installed a "jig" yet.

I know that there are "jigs" and fixtures that can be built/bought to do special angels and dangles...but I haven't used anything that was as simple and as accurate as this was out of the box. The only problem was working with the router "right side up". If I wasn't told about it (thanks Dave!) I would have had to think about it a little while.

I hope to try sliding dovetails this weekend.

[Tyler Howell]

Glenn,
I always like new toyls. But there is a long list of stuff I want to get first.
Let's see what that bad boy can do.

[Glenn Clabo]

Chris,
I want to make it clear to everyone that I'm not trying to sell this machine. I'm just wondering if anyone is interested. I know it's not for everyone...for lots of reasons. I hope nobody thinks I'm pushing this.

I fully understand about the price. I waited for a long time to pull the trigger. However, when I figured I wanted (not needed...handwork was fun for a long time) jigs for a dovetailer/finger jointer/tenon/mortiser I realized the cost was not as much as I thought. I also had no space...and this really doesn't take up as much as it seems. I don't know why I'll keep my table mounted router besides as part of my TS. I also know you can mount the rat to a table/bench on wheels.

Interesting to hear the issues....

[Chris Padilla]

Glenn,

I think it's pretty clear you aren't trying to sell the product...no worries, mate! :) This is a place to discuss and learn--lets forge ahead. I look forward to your projects with it. :D

[Matt Woodworth]

Matt,
There isn't anything done free hand. The parts are always clamped. You move the router which is in a fixture and the slide that the parts are clamped in.

Just to be clear, you're right in that it's not exactly freehand. I was thinking of cutting box joints or dovetails. IIRC, you slide the wood into place based on a template that you've made previously. It's sort of a "slide and line it up by eye" operation. There isn't really anything wrong with that. I think I can line things up to about 1/128". It just didn't look as foolproof as something that guides the router bit like the leigh jig.

My interest was raised when I saw a Leigh FMT jig at a show. Then I started looking around and I saw the woodrat with has a lot in common with it but it does far more. The woodrats gives you massive flexibility and but seems to lose the "foolproofness". (I'm sort of new to this forum, is it ok to make up words? :) )

[Jim Becker]

Learning is an integral part of the forum experience and community. I see no harm in getting more information on tools like this, even if one isn't personally inclined to purchased one. I'd certainly read about it and even ask questions...so what else is new? :rolleyes:

[Dave Richards]

I've had my Rat for about two years. I considered other things including the Leigh D4 and FMT. In my mind the price argument doesn't hold water if you consider the cost of the D4 and the FMT together are more than the Rat. Additionally the the Leigh tools won't do things like profiling edges, tongue and groove joints, dowel making, surfacing, etc. Yes, I know there are other tools that can do those things, too.

As to a dedicated router, there's no need for a dedicated unit. I have a DeWalt DW625 that I use on the Rat but I also use it on the Legacy and currently it is hanging upside down in the router table. Moving it around is no big deal. It's only two screws.

Personally, I like the WoodRat dovetail bits better than carbide ones for their slenderness. The shape is nicer to my eye. The nice thing about the Rat is you can use absolutely any dovetail bit you want with it. The Leigh D4 and other jigs with angled pin templates limit you to one angle of dovetail bit because it must match the angle on the template.

While it seems like accuracy without a template would be hard to achieve, it really isn't. In fact even my first dovetails lined up just fine. As to doing box joints, the same thing applies although I have used a different approach for box joints. I stack the four pieces together, offseting alternating pieces by the diameter of the router bit. I clamp them into the Rat and then cut the fingers by turning the carriage from side to side. Then I increment the router toward me by twice the diameter of the bit and repeat. When I finished with one end I do the other. I have a little mahogany box done that way that I store parts for the Legacy in. The joints are so tight, I have never bothered to glue the box up.

I could write more but I gotta catch a bus.

Edited to fix spelling and to add:

I think one of the reasons the Rat hasn't sold here as well as it has in the UK is that the advertising leaves something to be desired. The small ads I see in the woodworking magazines don't do a lot to draw my attention. They tend to show a small piece of casework or something but its not quite enough to get me to say, "I want to know more."

As Glenn has indicated there are a lot of things the Rat does very, very well. Woodworkers need more of an opportunity to see those things to appreciate it.

[Chris Padilla]

I guess, in the end, my dollars went into an Incra Twin-Linear for my router table fancy-shmancy fence system. I have no more room or dollars left for another joint-making system...I think what I've got works well for me.

Still, I always have an open mind and I'd love to see any projects or joint-making with the 'rat. Dollars can always be freed up if necessary but they are currently in the bandsaw savings account right now. :D

[Glenn Clabo]

As to doing box joints, the same thing applies although I have used a different approach for box joints. I stack the four pieces together, offseting alternating pieces by the diameter of the router bit. I clamp them into the Rat and then cut the fingers by turning the carriage from side to side. Then I increment the router toward me by twice the diameter of the bit and repeat. When I finished with one end I do the other. I have a little mahogany box done that way that I store parts for the Legacy in. The joints are so tight, I have never bothered to glue the box up.

As Glenn has indicated there are a lot of things the Rat does very, very well. Woodworkers need more of an opportunity to see those things to appreciate it.

That's why I'm doing this. I think this thing has a ton of potential and whenever I talk to Dave I learn more. But I thought I was being too much of a toolguy who looked for different ways to use a tool.

The other reason is to open the door to the newer tool buyer. If it is really an option...it will save money and do more.

[Dave Hammelef]

So how much and do they have a website???

[Keith Outten]

I would like to know more. I'm always interested in any type of precision machining equipment and it seems like a real nice match for my laser engraver if I could make custom templates for the Rat.

[Dave Richards]

Dave and Keith, here's the WoodRat (http://woodrat.com/) site.

For pricing, check the link for buying at the bottom of the main page. The WoodRat is $650 USD. PlungeBars are $40 to $47.50 depending upon which router its for. The PlungeBar is not required but it is very helpful in allowing you to plunge the router with one hand. I find it useful on the Legacy mill and even with the big router in the router table or when hand holding the router.

They offer a few accessories that would be nice but aren't required. You can buy their router bits but there's no requirement to do so. The aluminum guide rails would be a real nice to have thing but also not absolutely required.

I would recommend that anyone with even a little interest order the Video or DVD to see some of what you can do with it.

Lewis Stepp also sells the WoodRat in the US at The Craftsman Gallery (http://www.thecraftsmangallery.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc). He's come up with a few other accessories that he sells such as some angle gauges and a digital caliper attachment. Neither are required but some might find them handy.

Keith, you would likely find a way to do some laser etched guides but there really is no use for a template in the sense that the D4 guides are a template. still, you might find a use for some sort of scale or something you can make.

I took a spare scale from my Incra TS-IIIa and used that on my rat. I just took a piece of wood about 3/4" square and, with a dovetail bit in the router on the rat, routed a very shallow dovetail-shaped groove. Then I drilled a couple three holes for machine screws and slipped their heads into the channel in the bottom of the machine's extrusion. I made a cursor that mounts on the carriage and overhangs the scale. Both the scale and the cursor can be zeroed wherever you like for whatever application.

I also sometimes fix a small stainless scale on the aluminum guide rail and put a pencil mark on the router plate as a cursor. Not real high tech looking but it works as well as anything.

I don't stand to gain anything from all this WoodRat talk but I think the tool has really been overlooked in this country. I hope you guys will give it a good look.

Martin, the designer says something in the demo about the fact that the Rat will change the way you think about using a router but then maybe the change is a good thing.

One last thing, cuts such as for tenoning are done using climb milling (which is safe) so the surfaces tend to be smoother than with conventional milling.

[Glenn Clabo]

The aluminum guide rails would be a real nice to have thing but also not absolutely required.


Hey Dave...Something you "Old Rattimers" :D may now know...the aluminum rails come with it nowadays.

And thanks for jumping in here. Everytime you say something the light bulb (however dim these days) come on.

[Dave Richards]

Hey Dave...Something you "Old Rattimers" :D may now know...the aluminum rails come with it nowadays.

And thanks for jumping in here. Everytime you say something the light bulb (however dim these days) come on.

Thanks Glenn, I thought they were including them now but couldn't see any mention on either the WoodRat site or The Craftsman Gallery site.

I'm sure glad the light comes for you. I wish you shed a little light my way. :D

[Ed Falis]

The woodrat requires me to build a jig, build a sample template with marks on it, freehand route it to match the the template, etc. The possibilities are wide open but the "out of the box" solution is incomplete. I normally buy "solutions" while the woodrat is a "platform".

As an owner of the system would you say I'm on target?

Hi Matt,

As an owner, I agree it's a "platform", but it's a _lot_ easier to do things with it than your comment makes it sound. I've never seen an easier way of doing box joints, had no problems with through dovetails, M&T or even flat-field raised panels (well that last was a little challenging).

It's one of my favorite shop facilities, and complements the router table very nicely.

- Ed

[Ed Falis]

I don't stand to gain anything from all this WoodRat talk but I think the tool has really been overlooked in this country. I hope you guys will give it a good look.


I have to second Dave's opinion on this (had mine about a year). This thing is really a gas. Now when I want to mill something, I give serious consideration as to whether it's on the tablesaw (with molding head), router table or Rat. Each has its strengths, but the Rat is probably the most flexible. This goes to what I think Glen said about control in the x-y-z axes. It's generally capacity that will run me to one of the other machines (though the rat isn't bad at all).

- Ed

[Glenn Clabo]

So...over 500 views...5 owners interested in helping out...32 who want to know more...and 14 who don't.

Not overwhelming glee...but there are few out there who wouldn't mind us talking about the Rat. I guess I'm the newest owner so you can expect me to be finding things to discuss. I'll make sure I mention WoodRat in the title so those that aren't interested can skip over it.

[Allan Speers]

Glenn,

I've been eyeing the Rat for quite a while. A question for you, if you know the answer:

How does it handle making long molding? I need to make many hundreds of linear feet, but not enough to warrant buying a dedicated molder or router power-feed. I assume that it would give cleaner results than a table-router WITHOUT power-feed, but is this so?

Also, what about long pieces? If I want to make an 8' piece of molding, do I need 16' clear on my wall? That sure wouldn't happen.

Any other thoughts regarding molding in general would be welcome.

[Ed Falis]

You can do it using the brush to hold the wood to the horizontal plate, and feed by hand (the power-feed mechanism is too short for what you're talking about). I wouldn't consider it my tool of choice for that job. Depending on the molding profile, I'd probably be more inclined to use something like the Magic Molder on the tablesaw.

- Ed

[Frank Martin]

I purchased it several years ago. Have used it for box joints, dovetails, traditional M&T, loose tenon joinery, and a host of other non-standard cuts that would require a lot of set up using other power tools.

It has worked very well for me. I consider it one my best purchases in terms of the capabilities it added. I actually really like that it is not an out of the box solution. It gives you much more freedom because it is a platform. Other than a simple mortise jig, and digital calipers, and of course a DW625 router,I have not made or added any accessories to the basic machine.

I agree with others that actually the price should not be the barrier, because to do the same you would need to spend at least as much to purchase multiple jigs. It is the very limited marketing and the incorrect perception that it has a very steep learning curve. Personally, I agree it requires a different way of working, but not necessarily very hard to understand.

[Maurice Ungaro]

Glenn,
Please ship me your Woodrat for a month, or so. That way I will be able to contribute to the discussions, and may even decide that I need to get one for myself! :D

[glenn bradley]

I think it is a very cool rig but I would have to be making money at this to pay the price. Don't get me wrong, it is well engineered and very heavy duty. A real pro machine; I'm just not a real pro. But, they are cool.

[Randal Stevenson]

First I saw this and tried to figure out how to vote, that's when I noticed it is a resurected old thread. (yes, threads existed before I noticed this forum, even though I think I named dirt. :rolleyes:)

So While I don't know if the prices are different or valid anymore (what you get for $x), I looked at a couple of videos on it. While it seemed interesting, it seemed I could duplicate a lot of the functions with EITHER guided circular saw systems that cause too much heated debate here, and an SRK (available for either common system). May not have been then, but NOW I think those are a better value, at least here in the USA.

edit, just noticed my post number, 666. Seems I am traveling in a handbasket today, LOL.

[Ed Falis]

Randal,

I don't see it. But maybe the thing to do is to download the WR9 abridged manual from their site, take a look at what it can do, then let us know. I'd be interested. I do have some basic Festool and Eureka stuff, but not the more advanced "jiggery" as my wife likes to call it.

- Ed

[Michael Schwartz]

Randal,

I don't see it. But maybe the thing to do is to download the WR9 abridged manual from their site, take a look at what it can do, then let us know. I'd be interested. I do have some basic Festool and Eureka stuff, but not the more advanced "jiggery" as my wife likes to call it.

- Ed

One can never have to many jigs :rolleyes:

[Doug Shepard]

If you add an option for Own one but haven't used it yet, I'll vote:D
I got it a few months ago to avoid a price increase, but knew when I bought it that it was going to stay in the box until I got a couple other things done first. The cyclone DC installation is getting close to done. I also dont have any wall space to hang a Rat, and am badly in need of a real bench. That's coming next. Vises and Noden legs are here. Just need to get a top glued up. My plan is to attach the Rat to the bench when using it. Dave was a huge help in answering a lot of questions before I bought it and showed me a couple links with pics for a good mounting box. So I'm still a ways off from being able to actually let the Rat loose. Would love to see whatever posts you want to add. I already have a folder of Rat specific bookmarks started. Too much is never enough.:cool:

[Bruce Benjamin]

I agree with others that actually the price should not be the barrier, because to do the same you would need to spend at least as much to purchase multiple jigs.

I don't have one but I did get the video a few years ago. It looks like a very useful and versatile tool for sure and I'd love to have one if I could afford it. However, I have standard shop equipment and hand tools that will allow me to do pretty much anything that the Woodrat will do. They may possibly not be as convenient or easy as using the Woodrat, (depending on what you want to do) but I can get the job done for the most part. With that in mind, I would say that the price is a barrier. At least it is for someone like me who already has the standard WW tools. Sort of like buying an expensive European combo machine. I already have the jointer, planer, table saw, and EZ Smart and those will do whatever a combo machine will do. They just take up more space...But I already have them. For someone who's just starting out with their shop it's a different story. If I were in that position I'd definitely consider buying one. When I have more money I will also consider buying one. Now, where did I put that bag of money?;)

Bruce

[Randal Stevenson]

As your wife said, I do have the extra jiggery, and I think I could do it with the EZ (in my case). In fact, thanks for the idea to read the manual. I've been trying to figure out how to do dovetails with the EZ and I kept thinking of other jigs like Woodlines Route-R-Joint to use with the EZ, but now, I think (like I've done before), I am overthinking things. I think I might still need a template for fancy shaped dovetails, though.

But I have a friend who uses a router 90% of the time. This might be better for him. However getting him to give up the table (aka good luck).

[Frank Martin]

Bruce,

The price barrier I mentioned was mostly thinking that one would by Woodrat instead of other jigs, not in addition to those.

When I bought one, I had a Leigh D4 jig which I sold, but I had no other router jigs for joinery.

The other advantage of Woodrat is that it gives you a lot of capability in a very compact space, and it is always on the wall ready to use. This is very important to me as my shop is a one car garage.



I don't have one but I did get the video a few years ago. It looks like a very useful and versatile tool for sure and I'd love to have one if I could afford it. However, I have standard shop equipment and hand tools that will allow me to do pretty much anything that the Woodrat will do. They may possibly not be as convenient or easy as using the Woodrat, (depending on what you want to do) but I can get the job done for the most part. With that in mind, I would say that the price is a barrier. At least it is for someone like me who already has the standard WW tools. Sort of like buying an expensive European combo machine. I already have the jointer, planer, table saw, and EZ Smart and those will do whatever a combo machine will do. They just take up more space...But I already have them. For someone who's just starting out with their shop it's a different story. If I were in that position I'd definitely consider buying one. When I have more money I will also consider buying one. Now, where did I put that bag of money?;)

Bruce

[Ed Falis]

Great idea, Randal. Let us know if the methods there turn out useful with your EZ setup.

- Ed

[Rick Dohm]

I don't know anything about the WoodRat, and would certainly like to know more. Has anyone used the Joint Tech system (Cabinet Master, I think?). Sounds like it's similar, though maybe not quite as versatile.

Rick

[Gary Curtis]

The WoodRat functions much like a Milling Machine, with you providing the motion control, and the bit powered by a router of your choice. So it operates in 3-axis.

The wood is clamped to the main channel so you can make climb cuts safely. This is an improvement because climb cuts usually are a much smoother cut. The bit is always separated from the user by a thick phenolic plate, and there is dust collection. You use no templates or guides, and the American distributor now sells digital readout scales that position the cutter in two axis.

With little tooling you can cut highly precise Dovetails, Mortise & Tenons, Box (finger) Joints, Dowel Joints and a bunch more. Edge jointing with no limit on length is also possible. Cuts are also repeatable, for cookie-cutter production. All but one of the useful jigs needed are self-made. Downside is a learning curve and cost of tooling. Although now that the Festool Domino is out, the cost doesn't seem out of hand.

In most functions, the WoodRat replaces a router table. The Jointech works with your router table and gives you very precise joints and a kind of digital repeatability. Lots of templates and jigs to guide you through the various joints.

To get an image of the WoodRat, think CNC machine without the powered controls. Its real advantage is in making joints. For simply putting a roundover on an edge, get a router table.

Gary Curtis

[Rick Dohm]

I know nothing about the Wood Rat, but would like to. It's much easier to learn from others' experiences than from reading. Has anyone used the Joint Tech system (Cabinet Master, I think?) and how would it compare in joint making?

Rick

[Gary Curtis]

For a $6 investment, get the DVD showing most procedures. Available from Craftsman Gallery at www.chipsfly.com

It offers quite a tutorial -- more than 50 minutes worth. The WoodRat is hard to explain, for me at least. And my background was flight training on the 747 for an airline.

Gary Curtis

[Carl Crout]

The turnoff for me is that (I understand) that it is all in metric. I HATE METRICS..........:(

[Gary Curtis]

Well, there are two branches to this little 'country club' known as WoodRat World. From England, where the machine is made, dimensions printed in the manual and cutter sizes, are indeed metric.

But I bought my machine from the Craftsman Gallery (www.chipsfly.com) which manufactures accessories and a complete range of cutters here in the U.S. Those items - including the DRO gauges - read in English measure. On the two forums devoted to the WoodRat, users alternate between the two systems.

Even worse than metric I hear that the English drink their beer at room temperature. Talk about your 'radical departures'! Just kidding.:)

GC

[Michael Lutz]

I have looked at the Woodrat. I even looked at it before I had any other router jigs. The LOML wanted the Leigh Jig, so that was what we got. I also have since invested some money in equipment for a router table, which I hope to build in the next month or so. I currently don't have anything set up for doing mortices, but I was considering making a router mortiser similar to the one in Router Magic. The decsion on the mortiser jig essentially quashed the Woodrat need/want. I think that the dovetails it creates are very cool, many of which a difficult to duplicate by dovetail jigs. Something that it does are easier done on a table, such as edge profiling long moldings. I would find it difficult to spend the money on the woodrat at this time due to its overlapping capabilities with the rest of my router jigs and accessories, but I like the idea of it.

Mike

[Gary Curtis]

Michael,

It sounds like you have all that you need. In May, Mark Duginske gave a class here in Northern California. He commented briefly that for woodworkers are confronted with the challenge of not becoming 'gadgeteers'. I knew immediately the temptations he spoke of.

A WoodRat does not create furniture. The user must knowledgeably wield the machine. There is always that danger lurking, while thumbing through the beautiful 4-color brochures, of wanting to buy it all.

If a person has a Festool Domino, and a router table, and a Leigh Jig, that is enough. Enough is enough.

Gary Curtis

[Grant Lasson]

I really enjoy the woodrat. I've had one for a number of years. Like all specialty tools, I've had to make improvements. If you don't have one, I think it would probably be best not to guess what it can and cannot do. With a little creativity, it's handled a number of unusual jobs quite well. It handles the normal jobs extremely well.

[Rick LoDico]

I'm sure I'll never own one. I have an FMT and a dovetail jig.

[Carl Crout]

Could I use the Woodrat to make a chair bottom. In other words if I made one, as a template would it follow the chairs contours?

[Carl Crout]

I watched part of the video. It looks like you would have to do a lot of "eyeballing" to line up the joints. In other words If I don't line up the pointer EXACTLY with the template won't the joint be off?

[Phil Jones]

This is the sixth (keller, leigh (two jigs), incra, matchmaker) gadget I've purchased that makes dovetails (got it from Lee Valley). At first I was disappointed in the fit of the dovetails :( , but then I hooked it up with a couple of inexpensive DRO's for x,y positioning. Since then, everything's been copasetic :) .

I really, really like this gadget. In contrast to most of the other systems out there, this one takes a bit more manual reading time to understand how to work, but it's really quite easy and simple to use once you take the time to go through the manual.

This has to be the easiest and slickest way to make sliding dovetails and fingerjoints I've ever tried. It also does great at mortise & tenon joints.

This gadget does just about everything, and it does everything really really well. I'm just blown away---in my experience multi-purpose gadgets usually wind up not doing anything well. So I'm really hooked :eek: . I'd enjoy having a forum set up.

[Gary Curtis]

Carl, I've seen pictures somewhere of somebody crafting a chair bottom on a WoodRat. I would have to do some headscratching to attempt it myself. Probably using something like a Vertical Panel Raiser with the wood held vertically in the clamp.

You are right when you picked up that making joints involves some careful alignment. Since the DVD and the Manual were produced, the latest innovations come from here, not England. The Craftsman Gallery sells Digital Readout Scales for about $60-$100 that work using the newest procedures for making DoveTails, Finger Joints and Mortise and Tenons.

People - especially some older guys like me) did have trouble lining up pencil marks with the old methods. Now, you position the cutter according to a read-out on the digital scales. That addresses the problem. Although when the light is right, I prefer to mark out dovetails with a knife and visually cut to the line. It is quite satisfying.

And Phil, would you come over here and give me some lessons. As you say, it requires study.

Gary Curtis

[Ed Brady]

I am reviving this old thread after doing a forum search on WoodRat. Since this thread the company that carried WoodRat has created a "copy" called the Router Boss. I like the idea of the Rat and perhaps the Boss, but want to know more before making such a large investment. It seems the Rat is available only from the UK these days.

The video on the Rat Web page is much more comprehensive, so I have a better understanding of how it works.

I know from this thread that there are some Rat users. Has anyone bought the Boss? Any thoughts on either of these two products?

Thanks,

Ed Brady

[Gary Curtis]

Alan DeLooze created the website devoted to the WoodRat at www.aldel.co.uk.
Everything WoodRat. He also evaluated the Router Boss. In describing his impressions of this newer machine, he liked the improved dust collection, the lighting, the greatly increased linear capacity for larger work. Dovetails are cut in a new manner by the RB, but Alan said the older WR method works well enough to suit his tastes. One plus for the Router Boss is the great support offered by its manufacturer and marketer, the Craftsman Gallery (www.chipsfly.com)

The WoodRat is still sold here in North America. Lee Valley has them, and there is a new WoodRat distributor in Iowa. A link to them can be found at www.woodrat.com.

Gary Curtis