Which size biscuits?

[Amy Leigh Baker]

Easy question... I hope.

I will be biscuit joining four 3/4" boards together on their face to make 3" legs of a table. You can join two of these boards together using #10 biscuits without the biscuits coming out the other side, but if you have to join more than two boards on top of one another the biscuits from adjoining pieces will interfere, unless you stagger them. I've tested the joints with #10 biscuits on scrap pieces of the same boards and I can't imagine them not being strong enough, even with staggering.

Should I use #0 biscuits with consistent spacing on all joints, or should I use #10 biscuits and stagger the biscuits? (Using the latter method would mean some joints would not have a biscuit near one end of the board.)

Amy

[Norman Pyles]

I vote no buscuits. You don't need them for that joint.

[glenn bradley]

As Norm says; on that joint, your biscuits are just an alignment aid adding no significant strength so do what works best for you and don't concern yourself with trying to squeeze a bigger biscuit in (if you use them at all).

[Chris Friesen]

The biscuits are certainly not necessary for strength, but they might help a bit with alignment. I'd probably forgo the biscuits and just clamp them all up.

Given that the individual boards are fairly thin, I'd use cauls or a lot of parallel jaw clamps (with big jaws) to even out the clamping pressure. It's pretty much impossible to clamp it too tight if the pressure is evenly distributed.

Lastly, you can glue up multiple legs at once in the same set of clamps...just make sure you don't accidentally put glue between the different legs.

[Amy Leigh Baker]

So what... Just glue?

If that opinion is the majority then okay, but that seems to take all the fun out of it :( (You can't see my lower lip sticking out!) But it's nice to know that I don't have to worry about placement, strength, and so forth. I will probably just place two #10 in each joint, both for alignment and for the experience (it is a new biscuit jointer!)

Another question, it doesn't sound like I need to worry about getting the maximum amount of glue in these joints either? I am paranoid about glue seepage. I DON'T LIKE IT!!!

[Greg Cole]

Amy,
Don't bother with the biscuits unless you have a plate joiner you are itching to use.... often the alignment of the bisuits isn't as good as you'd hoped for & creates alot more sanding for a lever surface. Use a clamp on the edge joint of the boards being glued to keep them in alignment. I made some "blocks" I clamp to these joints (take hardwood scrap 3" long or so, bore a 1" or so hole in it & rip in half). This allows you to keep the boards lined up without gluing the blocks to the boards....
Some squeeze out is a good thing, it lets you know you have a glue line that's 100% covered. Either try wiping it up immediately or wait for it to set up some and slightly scrape off.... both are a coin toss to me. With open grainy stuff like oak etc... it's tough.

Greg

[Wade Lippman]

So what... Just glue?

Another question, it doesn't sound like I need to worry about getting the maximum amount of glue in these joints either? I am paranoid about glue seepage. I DON'T LIKE IT!!!

I like my biscuit jointer as much as anyone, but wouldn't even think of using it here, unless it was required for precise alignment for some reason that isn't immediately obvious.

If glue doesn't seep out you are either using too little glue or inadequate clamping. Seepage is your friend.

[James Suzda]

I just watched some videos from Shopnotes and one of them dealt with panel glue-ups. They also stated that biscuits just aid in alignment and actually could take away from the strength of the joint. (Less long grained gluing surface.)
BTW, they glued up a 3/4 thick panel and had it cure for about 45 minutes and when a member of the audience tried to break it, it broke, but not the glue joint. The wood broke away from the glue joint.

[Larry Browning]

Amy, Amy, Amy,
Listen to everyone here. They really do what they are talking about. Save the BJ for edge to edge panels or attaching a face frame to a cabinet. Trust me, using biscuits for this is just the wrong thing to do. However, you can never have too many clamps for this application. A clamp every 4 inches at both edges wouldn't be overkill. Glue squeeze out is a good thing. It tells you that the 2 pieces are bonding. You can either leave it and scrape it off when dry OR wipe it off with a damp cloth after clamping. Focus on the clamping, not the biscuits.

[Chris Padilla]

I could see using the biscuits to keep those boards from sliding around on you when you glue them up.

Consider this:

Glue up two boards at a time. Use the #0 biscuit (the smallest you have unless you have #FF). Use two biscuits per 2-board glue-up. Put them in opposite corners. Now when you glue-up, they will not slip/slide around on you.

One issue I see with this. Are you planning to turn these leg blank on a lathe or are they staying square? If turning them, you could have a problem with the biscuits showing their pretty little faces. If the leg blank stays square, you might be fine unless tapering and in this case, just be mindful of biscuit placement.

[Doug Shepard]

I'd cut them wide and long, skip the buscuit alignment, then cut/joint them to final width after the glue dries. That will take care of any dried glue squeezout as well.

[James Suzda]

<SNIP> You can either leave it and scrape it off when dry OR wipe it off with a damp cloth after clamping. Focus on the clamping, not the biscuits.

Larry, I don't want to make it sound like you are wrong about the glue removal from the joint, but I think Amy would have better luck with staining and finishing the wood if she does not wipe the wet glue with a damp rag. All this does is smear the glue into the pores and then it will never take stain like the rest of the board.
I have found the best way to remove the glue is to wait until it hardens to a 'rubbery' state and take a chisel and 'pop' it off. If you wait until it dries completely there is a good chance the wood fibers will tear out with the glue.

[Chris Friesen]

..I think Amy would have better luck with staining and finishing the wood if she does not wipe the wet glue with a damp rag.

I'd suggest that the blanks should be made oversized and trimmed down after glue-up. This will guarantee that they end up smooth on all sides and also removes any glue-smeared wood.

[James Suzda]

I guess I had a "moment" and forgot that she was gluing up blanks for legs. I guess I had panels on my mind.

[Amy Leigh Baker]

No, because of my limited tools, the wood is cut and once they are joined they will be done, so I do have to be careful with glue. I will go for a lighter stain to match the other furniture in my bedroom, and I assume that will show glue pretty well?

[Curt Harms]

I've started using painter's or masking tape right up to the edge of the joint and make sure it's adhered well to the stock so glue doesn't get under it. Let any squeeze-out drip onto the tape. After a few minutes remove the tape and no glue:).

I'm not as allergic to using biscuits as some here, just be careful of placement--not too close to any edge or where there will be cuts. One thing I found is when using the fence, it's easy to hold the biscuit joiner not square to the stock creating a slot that is angled. When the mating piece is attached the two pieces don't line up. Make sure the fence of the tool has at least a couple inches to rest on-I started clamping an edgeways 2X4 on the back of the workpiece so the biscuit joiner is truly perpendicular to the workpiece. I hope this makes sense, it's easier to do than to explain.

Curt

[Peter Stahl]

Amy, If you really want to use biscuits then stagger them a little so they don't hit each other. I'm a big biscuit user and I wouldn't use them here. Use a couple cauls to keep the boards even while you clamp them. Surface to surface gluing will be more than strong enough. Let us know what you decide.

[Larry Browning]

Larry, I don't want to make it sound like you are wrong about the glue removal from the joint, but I think Amy would have better luck with staining and finishing the wood if she does not wipe the wet glue with a damp rag. All this does is smear the glue into the pores and then it will never take stain like the rest of the board.
I have found the best way to remove the glue is to wait until it hardens to a 'rubbery' state and take a chisel and 'pop' it off. If you wait until it dries completely there is a good chance the wood fibers will tear out with the glue.
Jim,
I know that what you are saying is the "conventional wisdom", but, my "hands-on" experience is different. My experience is that this works just fine. I have done this on red oak and on white oak and I have not had problems. I have seen spots where I didn't get the glue completely wiped off, but as long as I wipe it off completely I have had no problems.

[Larry Browning]

No, because of my limited tools, the wood is cut and once they are joined they will be done, so I do have to be careful with glue. I will go for a lighter stain to match the other furniture in my bedroom, and I assume that will show glue pretty well?
Actually, a glue stain would show up less with a light stain than with a dark. At least that is what I have found to be true. But, somehow, what I find to be true may not be what others find to be true.

[Amy Leigh Baker]

Well, I cut slots for biscuits in all my leg boards last night, two for each joint. Then I glued up one leg. I found no problems with the biscuits other than if you want to argue that it's a weaker joint. Alignment was my biggest issue. Since I don't have a planer I was very worried about getting edges aligned, and the biscuits helped a lot. They allowed things to move so I could align, but not enough for things to be just sliding willy-nilly.

Glue seepage... ugh!!!!! Lots of it, but I think I got it all off. My biggest problem of all was not having enough clamps. Now I know what everybody says, and you don't have to say it again, "You can never have enough clamps". Unfortunately, I couldn't have any LESS money. I need wood, tools to cut it with, and clamps. I only have money for two of those.

[Greg Cole]

Amy,
Look into some clamping cauls... they will reduce the need for a bazillion clamps in many instances.;)
They're available for purchase, as well as pretty easy to make (even without an arsenal of bandsaws, shapers, routers etc etc).

Cheers,
Greg