Good push stick designs for the TS?

[Dave Cohen]

I recently made an end grain cutting board, and noticed that when I was ripping the second set of narrow strips (after the first glue up), I had some difficulty pushing the narrow strips and keeping them pressed against the fence. The result was that the strips had pronounced blade marks on the sides or were not perfectly straight.

Does anyone have a push stick design that will move the wood forward and also allow you to exert lateral pressure against the fence? Or perhaps I just need better technique?

I am not using one of those larger push sticks like this yet:

http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=11073&filter=puch%20stick

Perhaps that would solve the problem?

[richard poitras]

Get a Gripper .... they work great ...

[Lee Koepke]

doesnt really answer your question, but ...

I read a thread/article on here that was another of those so obvious I never woulda of thought about its ...

I forget the author, or I would honor him, but when he was cutting smaller pieces, in order to use as much of the good wood as possible, he would glue the 'good' stock to a larger piece of 'scrap', then you have plenty of safe feed wood to rip your smaller pieces.

I just ripped some 1/8" walnut pieces for a game board thingy I am doing, and I used that procedure and it worked like a charm.

[Bas Pluim]

As Richard said, the Grr-ripper (http://www.microjig.com/GRR-Ripper.htm) is fantastic for this kind of work. You just have to get over the fact that you're paying $50 for a push stick. I have two and they're worth every penny.

[Eric Haycraft]

This is the best style that I know of besides the grippers.

http://www.vermontamerican.com/Products/productdetail.htm?G=190912&GRP=190912&I=70515


They allow you to put some lateral pressure on the stock to keep it tight to the fence and isn't as cumbersome as the grippers. I have both and am probably not used to the grippers yet because I use this for most things.

[Richard Niemiec]

Dave, a couple of issues here. First, if your fence is not perfectly aligned with your miter gauge slot (and your saw blade to the slot, respectively), you won't get good cuts. Second, thin rips tend to hop up and down a little when cutting, so use some featherboards to hold them down. Third, the push stick - for thin cuts, I use a 8 inch by 5 inch piece of scrap resawn maple (1/4 or 1/2 inch plywood would do as well) with a notch about 3/8 inch deep about 1 inch from the back end. I hold it so it applies downward pressure along its 8 inch length, and the five inch height keeps the fingers out of the way.

The glue tip someone mentioned earlier is also a good technique.

Personally, I use a lot of featherboards and must have close to a dozen push sticks around the shop. Just like you can't have too much fun or enough clamps, you need more pushsticks and featherboards, cause you can't be safe enough. One kickback that almost took my head off was enough for me.....

[Dave Cohen]

Thanks for that thoughtful response.

I have aligned the fence to within .003" or so of the miter slot and have no issues with longer stock.

It really comes down to keeping the front end of the strip close to the fence, which once it passes the front of the blade ( use cannot use feather boards here ) - so whats the trick to keeping it against the fence without risking your fingers...holding stock past the blade is seriously dangerous, kickback could result in finger loss....so anyway how do you keep that part against the fence...I'm thinking the right stick could do it - don't think feather boards will do much in this case:

the board (problem was ripping the strips for the width at about 1 1/2" wide and 14" long):

http://picasaweb.google.com/alhenex/Woodworking/photo#5157994602601059442

[Dale Lesak]

How about a splitter or such behind the blade ? Dale :rolleyes:

[Dave Cohen]

How about a splitter or such behind the blade ? Dale :rolleyes:

Have a thin kerf splitter behind the blade (which is not a thin kerf blade)...perhaps thats the problem

[Dave Hale]

Dave,

Good name first of all. :)
I had the same problem, guess I've made around 20 of those boards now. Big problems when I alternated the strips. Had to turn some 1 1/4" planned boards into much closer to an inch to smooth it out
Made a cutoff sled (crosscut sled). Problem solved. Put a stop-block to the right to get the repeatable width and used hold-downs to keep the board set in place.
Do a search here, some great designs are on this site. Got mine out of a Wood magazine jigs special and used Glenn Bradley's T-bolt pivot. (Thanks Glenn)
My father-in-law, also a wood nut, was visiting last month and helped me get a couple of boards done. 'Gotta make me one of these' was his comment.
Oh yeah, 5-sided Cut Method too!
http://benchmark.20m.com/articles/TheFiveSidedCut/TheFiveSidedCut.html

[Dave Cohen]

Yes, as Martin Short (SNL) would say...thats the ticket!

I sold my old TS and gave away the x-cut sled to the buyer, upgraded to a new TS and never made a new sled...Looks like its time to do it. I think your method is perfect: accurate and safe.

When I went to rip those strips it did cross my mind that I needed a sled, had no good plywood or MDF around and was too lazy to run out and make a new one. Anyway got off on the push stick tangent....

Thanks for reminding me.

Would be curious to hear more about the hold downs on your sled.

[James Suzda]

Just take a length of 2x4 and glue a perpendicular 1x4 handle on top. Then screw or glue a small 'foot' on the back to push the wood through the saw. I know it's pretty obvious, but be sure to adjust the blade depth to make sure you don't cut through the 2x4 block!!!
When you use this quick and dirty push block you can hold down pressure on the stock and also be able to keep the stock against the fence. Of course, after awhile the bottom of the 2x4 pusher will show some war wounds, but it was cheap!

[John Newell]

I bought a pair of Grr Rippers recently and I think my push sticks are all on the verge of retirement. The Grr Rippers just plain control the stock better...and I think they are safer.

[Dave Cohen]

Do grippers work with a dust/blade guard in place ?

[Wayne Cannon]

I prefer this type of push stick over the ones suggested here, though it is similar, as its rubber gripping surface and spring-loaded retractable push foot allows it to also work on the smooth top surface of the board (e.g., so you can have it in your hand and use it before you get near the end of a board).

http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=1&p=30067&cat=1,42207.

The gripper is great for narrower stock.

Both provide the ability to hold the stock down against the table as well as push it and guide it against the fence.

Then there's my trusty notched wooden paint-stirrer combined with a splitter and hold-down feather board for very narrow stock.

[Jim Becker]

I use a push-block, not a push-stick. The latter is a very scary item to me as it doesn't engage the workpiece enough for me to be comfortable using it.

[Paul Simmel]

I recently made an end grain cutting board, and noticed that when I was ripping the second set of narrow strips (after the first glue up), I had some difficulty pushing the narrow strips and keeping them pressed against the fence. The result was that the strips had pronounced blade marks on the sides or were not perfectly straight.

Does anyone have a push stick design that will move the wood forward and also allow you to exert lateral pressure against the fence? Or perhaps I just need better technique?

I am not using one of those larger push sticks like this yet:

http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=11073&filter=puch%20stick

Perhaps that would solve the problem?

How narrow? I'd never use the TS for anything 1/4 - 3/16 - 1/8. I cut the strips on the BS and feed them to the planer. Extremely consistent results and so safe it's idiot proof.

[Joe Chritz]

How narrow? I'd never use the TS for anything 1/4 - 3/16 - 1/8. I cut the strips on the BS and feed them to the planer. Extremely consistent results and so safe it's idiot proof.

Idiot resistant. Working in the public safety field I have discovered that if you try to make something idiot proof they will just build a better idiot.

I'm with Jim Becker on this one. A push block constructed out of 1/2 BB plywood. There are very few cuts I would rather have a stick for than a block that has at least some material on the stock.

Joe

[glenn bradley]

I have a reasonable collection of push devices: http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=52623&d=1166302096

The GRR-Rippers get used more than anything else. For thin strips I was going to make the Shopnotes version of this (http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=18056&filter=thin%20strip) but caught one on sale for less than the effort would have been worth.

The Rockler doo-thingy is great for ripping repeated thin strips off of wide stock. The GRR-Rippers excel at thin strips against the fence without the need for featherboards.

[Kevin Groenke]

I've been meaning to snap some pics of our pushsticks for this thread for some time and finally got around to it.

We make these by the dozens with vacuum templates on the router table so it's no biggie if they get cut up. I hand 'em out to students with saws at home.
1/4", 1/2" and 3/4" thick mdf seems to cover all the bases, we modify the form readily to deal with unusual cuts/stock. We almost never use fingerboards, but then we have riving knives don't we?

-kg

[Jim Becker]

My push blocks are nearly "close family members" to the ones that Kevin shows in those pictures.

[Norman Pyles]

Kevin, thanks for the photos.

[Jay Albrandt]

Get a "Gripper". For your application I think it would work well.

http://www.microjig.com/GRR-Ripper.htm

Good luck.

J

[Bob Feeser]

Dave,
First let me say that the link to the cutting board; that is the nicest looking cutting board I have ever seen. Why? Because it has such a nice balance of soft tones, and dark ones as an accent, as compared to having so much dark, light, dark, light, that the piece can easily get too busy. The other ones look nice, but the one you made in your link is by far the best. Seriously.
Pertaining to the push stick, the whole things comes down to being able to steer the entire boat, rather than just push on the transom. Especially important is the ability to steer the front end accurately. To do that you need something up front that grips. A rubber bottom will do, like the one in this thread with the V shaped, and what looks like a rubber bottom. The thing I like about that is the adjustable heel. I use the Vermont American, and I love it. That little red tab in the front allows you to grip the board. The heel catches the back, but the long nose keeps the exiting board flat on the table, and the red button, grips the board in the front so you can do something that is hard to describe, but I will try. The object is to be pushing the board forward, while at the same time exerting a little pressure on a 45 degree angle toward the fence. Not so much pressure that the push shoe will slip, but enough to keep the workpiece tight against the fence. The other advantage of the Vermont American is that it is tall enough, that if you ever did slip, your hand is pushing at that 45 degree angle, toward the fence, and that is where your hand would go, over the top of the fence, and not toward the blade. I must admit the little heel on the Vermont American concerns me, and I am careful on each cut to catch the wood accurately with it. If the heel would suddenly let go, you are in one of those dangerous situations. So the push stick with the V rubber bottom, with the adjustable heel seems like a nice choice, especially for 15 bucks, but I do not have any first hand experience with that one. I am assuming the bottom is made out of rubber. If it is it would be easy to steer the entire workpiece toward the fence.
That super gripper seems like a nice tool as well. Maybe even superior to the other options. Once again, never used one. I forgot the name, but someone in this thread is using it and swears by it.
The real disaster is trying to cut wood with one of those push sticks, with the little head on it, and the only control it has is to push, and hope the wood steers itself. That is a dangerous push stick, whereas it doesn't do too much to prevent the back end of the workpiece from creeping up, the upward spiraling blade on the back end of it.
Whichever you choose, of the three would be better than that.
Splitters are good to keep the back end of the stock down, but they do not do anything to keep the workpiece tight against the fence; that is the only way to keep the saw marks out of your workpiece, that is, with all other things being adjusted to create a no saw mark piece. (Number of teeth on blade, alignment, etc. which you already said you have .003, but Forrest WWII suggests .001 wide at the back end of the blade. The tighter the better, but still allowing for the teeth kissing the exiting workpiece, so .001 cuts the workpiece a little slack) Featherboards, although a great thing to use, have a hard time working on the cut piece at the tail end of the cut, so once the board has been cut all the way through, the tail end can wander causing teeth marks. The right push stick rules.


Thanks for that thoughtful response.

I have aligned the fence to within .003" or so of the miter slot and have no issues with longer stock.

It really comes down to keeping the front end of the strip close to the fence, which once it passes the front of the blade ( use cannot use feather boards here ) - so whats the trick to keeping it against the fence without risking your fingers...holding stock past the blade is seriously dangerous, kickback could result in finger loss....so anyway how do you keep that part against the fence...I'm thinking the right stick could do it - don't think feather boards will do much in this case:

the board (problem was ripping the strips for the width at about 1 1/2" wide and 14" long):

http://picasaweb.google.com/alhenex/Woodworking/photo#5157994602601059442