Moving to England

[Dan Barr]

I'm moving to England in a few months and wanted to hear any and all advice about woodworking in England. What to be aware of, look for, try out, etc etc.

If y'all need something, i'll post a thread for that in the future too.

Will i be able to find a house with a shop? i hear stories of how small garages are. and not many two car garages either.

Should i even bother with taking all my tools with me. ive got a lot.

Sell everything now and buy new tools when i get there?

Rust???

I'll be in Suffolk, England right near RAF Mildenhall.

Any and all words appreciated.

Thanks,

Dan

[Lee Koepke]

Good luck with the move.

Many of the tradesmen I have run across were Englanders ... they have been working wood for centuries !!!

[Steven Wilson]

17% VAT and a tool that costs a dollar here will cost a pound (or more) there. You will probably need to sell your powered tools but take your hand tools.

[John Thompson]

I believe their power is different from 120V-220V, so the converters would be necessary to use yours. I am pretty sure of that but perhaps others could comment. If not... I know Richard Jones who closed his long time custom furniture shop in England to return to take a WW teaching job at one of the colleges. I could find out.

Good luck as I'm assuming you are still active duty AF having the Colo. Springs handle and moving near the Royal Air Force facility at Mildenhall?

Again... best wishes

Sarge..

[Dan Barr]

im still active duty and am PCS'ing to RAF Mildenhall come april.

dan

[M Toupin]

Dan, is this a permanent move or temp? I see your in CSCO, military? too many variables to give a reasonable opine without the details.

When I spent 4 years in Germany I stored the big stuff and shipped a selection of hand tools. I didn't have much weight which effected that decision. The tools survived storage much better than the household goods...

Mike

[Yuchol Kim]

Many of the tradesmen I have run across were Englanders ... they have been working wood for centuries !!!

Them are some old men.

[Richard Niemiec]

Sell the power tools and buy a bunch of LN or LV planes - you can sell them for a considerable profit over there - just google LN planes at UK retailers...or post them on UK Ebay....I'd take the proceeds and use them to re-outfit the shop when you get home. Or go fully neander when you're overseas, there's a lot of really good used hand tools for sale which back here will bring premium prices, especially the infill planes.

Good luck, and thank you for your service to our country. RN

[M Toupin]

refresh sucks...

You'll find things a bit different in Europe than what your used to over here. It takes a little getting used to, brush up on your metric :D

I was lucky and had a wood shop in my maint co so stationary tools weren't a problem and everything was good old American iron so i really didn't have to adapt to the European stuff. I took a tool box of hand tools, though I did buy a lot of little stuff while i was there. Mostly stuff I needed for a particular project as it came up. power can be a problem and transformers aren't really a good option as most power tools take q good size transformer which are expensive. The up side is there;s a lot of transformers available used as folks rotate which keeps the cost down a bit. Our shop also had duel power so it wasn't an problem for the circular saw, drill and jig saw I took. )Naive 20 year old never even thought about a different power system:D)

Enjoy the tour and travel! We traveled extensively while there, it's the only thing I miss about active duty:(

Mike

[Dan Barr]

i imagine the travelling will also be the ONLY thing i miss about active duty someday. for now though, i'm doing the best i can and taking this opportunity to go see and do.

thanks,

dan

[Lewis Cobb]

Some thoughts on England and woodworking. I'm in Canada but have been there a few times and here in Canada we see the odd Brit woodworking mags on the shelf. Here's my read on the hobby over there -

The power is different - you'll find no 110V there - only 230 - and it's not 60 Hz - it's 50 Hz- that can wreak havoc on some motors etc. Years ago when people had clocks that were based on little electric motors, transporting them to England resulted in time running slower over there :D

The worst thing you will find is that wood is scarce, and what wood there is, is probably hellish expensive. I literally heard of 25 dollar 2x4's a few years back - :eek:.

If you look on the magazine racks for hobby mags you will find that the woodworking mags in England are centered around small things like turning and small router projects etc, and there are a lot of people that are into machining as a hobby rather than woodworking.

Anyway, that's my read on the situation - hope this is of some help !

Cheers,
Lewis

[Tony Porter]

Try checking out axminster.co.uk to see what macinery is available in the Uk
I wouldent bther taking any power tools as the the electric runs at 50 hz

[Dave MacArthur]

I concur with M Toupin and Lewis. I was stationed at RAF Bentwaters for 3 years. At that time, we had a wood shop on base. I just looked at the services pages on the newcomer's area for both Mildenhall and Lakenheath, and it doesn't look like they have woodshops anymore there... bummer.

The power--everything 110v US style has to be run off a transformer, which actually ends up working well and as noted they are available cheap as hand me downs. They are about 1 ft square usually. However, it's a pain for power tools.

Additionally, space IS VERY TIGHT! You would be lucky to have a garage that would fit a normal US car, a truck fitting in is right out. You won't find a 3 car garage for sure, and a 2 car is doubtful unless you get lucky. If you live outside of a town, you can often rent a country place with a separate garage though, but more of a "barn/car shack" than a US garage.

I would NOT take your big power tools--it would be painful on your weight allowance anyways. Tools that can run on 230 V, great-take them. I also concur that you should NOT plan on buying tools over there! If anything, email someone here and have them buy/ship it to your APO box--the exchange rate, the inflated British prices, and the VAT (Value Added Tax) kill you.

All that being said, I enjoyed my time in England probably the most in my life, and I would pick up at anytime and move there, if I thought I could find a decent job. You will LOVE it.

And here is my #1 tip, the most important thing you need to know: Adnam's Suffolk Ales... nothing you drink will ever compare.

[Ray Moser]

In England and Germany, Americans use 220 to 110 transformers but you get 110 at 50 Hz. A 110 or 220 motor induction designed for 60 Hz will overheat if run very long on 50 Hz current. Universal motors AC/DC don't care about the frequency just the voltage. When I was in Germany I had a small table saw with a 50/60 Hz motor. In Germany I installed a larger pully on the motor to keep the blade speed up. When I got back to CONUS, I installed a smaller pulley. I wouldn't take anything very big with an AC only motor. I don't know about Mildenhall, but Ramstein AB had a very well equiped wood hobby shop. You might be able to get info from Family Service or something similar as to what you find at your new duty station.

[Paul Greathouse]

Dan

There are 3 guys ( Peter West, Colin Cottrell & Tom Wizer ) over on the EZ forum that live in the UK. I think Peter is a cabinet maker by profession. They may not frequent the General forum so they may not see your question here.

You might try PM'ing them, they would probably have a wealth of general WW and logistics knowledge pertaining to the UK that they would be willing to share with you.

[Justin Bukoski]

Dan, are you a turner? If not your stay in England might be a good time to pick up the hobby. You can find a turner's club over there and learn from some of the best turners in the world.

As others have said, sell your power tools and any of your cheap hand tools. Keep the good hand tools though and if you are going to store them make sure to take precautions against rust.

[Greg Heppeard]

I spent 3 1/2 years in that area in the mid '70s. Rust will be a factor, maintain your tools regularly. Also, it's not the voltage so much (you can buy transformers which are readily available) but the frequency, it's 50hz. If your power tools are marked 60/50hz, you're ok, but if they are marked 60hz, I would store them or sell them. They used to have a great wood hobby shop on Lakenheath, which is only about 5-10 miles from Mildenhall. The hobby shops overseas are laid out pretty well with all the power tools you would need, you have to learn to share tho. I seem to remember a lot of Delta gray. Check with the MWR to find out more info.

[Brandon Shew]

Since everyone else has commented on the prices and power issues - I'll go in a different direction. Go see David Savage:

www.finefurnituremaker.com (http://www.finefurnituremaker.com)

He teaches a few one week courses from time to time. I'd love to go apprentice under him for a year.

[Howard Acheson]

>> A 110 or 220 motor induction designed for 60 Hz will overheat if run very long on 50 Hz current.

I don't believe that is correct. A friend moved his power tools to the UK. For large tools that had 115/230 dual voltage motors, Delta told him to convert them to 230 volt operation. All the 50 cycle would do is cause them to rotate 17% slower but that would not damage the motor. For 115 volt tools, you need a transformer.

I would recommend that the original poster contact the manufacturer of his tools and ask them specifically.

[Rod Upfold]

Here you go Dan...you can ask some questions here.


http://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/



Rod

[Ray Moser]

I sorry but it is correct. Current in an AC motor is held down by the back EMF generated by the AC. The higher the frequency of the AC the more the back EMF. A 60 Hz motor winding is designed for a certain current flow based on certain the expected frequency. At 50 Hz the windings of a motor designed for 60 Hz will pass more current than the windings were designed to handled. That extra current will be show up as heat and possibily cause a fire in your motor. As one who spent 13 yrs in a country with 220 V 50 Hz current I am very familar with the problem. I also remember when the Base Exchange had to recall a whole shipment of electric toy trains. The power packs were designed for 110 V 60 Hz. And when people use a 220 to 110 transformer and ran them on 110 V 50 Hz current, they were going up in smoke. You are safe only if you have a motor designed for 50/60 Hz operation or a universal (AC/DC) motor. Perhaps some 60 Hz motor have windings that will handle the extra heat without burning but they will run hotter. Is is worth taking a chance? Sorry if I sound a little P.O.ed but 45 years dealing with electronics as an amateur radio operator (principles are the same for induction at 60 Hz or radio frequency. Also five years of teaching a introductory electronics course. I sure don't know all there to know but to be told that my statement was incorrect sets my hair on edge. Especially from someone who does not seem to know the basics of induction in AC circuits.
>> A 110 or 220 motor induction designed for 60 Hz will overheat if run very long on 50 Hz current.

I don't believe that is correct. A friend moved his power tools to the UK. For large tools that had 115/230 dual voltage motors, Delta told him to convert them to 230 volt operation. All the 50 cycle would do is cause them to rotate 17% slower but that would not damage the motor. For 115 volt tools, you need a transformer.

I would recommend that the original poster contact the manufacturer of his tools and ask them specifically.

[Dan Barr]

thanks for all the advice you guys. its really reassuring to know a little more before i jump in.

keep it coming!

thanks,

dan

[Dan Barr]

I'm considering going neander while im there. maybe not totally neander, but mostly neander.

it would give me a more solid foundation in woodworking.

cheers,

dan