My table design

[Amy Leigh Baker]

I'm building a table that will be used as a makeup/dressing table.

It started as a parsons design, but there have been some modifications. I like the contemporary look.
Solid oak on everything but the tabletop. Oak plywood for that.
Dimensions are 19 & 3/4"D x 40"W x 30"H
3" square legs (If that's a little big, I do I expect to be doing a fair amount of leaning on the table. It is going to be a functional table as well as hopefully aesthetically pleasing!)
2 1/4" rails
I have added a mirror to the design. It will be on the backside of the table, incased in a 3" frame with mitered joints.
For the tabletop I had planned on using oak plywood to match the frame, but for edging to cover the plywood edge I am considering adding oak 1x3's around the outside using a miter joint in the corners, and joining everything with biscuits. I've been told they make oak trim for that purpose, but I kinda like the look of the 3" frame running around a solid piece of stock.Any feelings? Things I should watch out for? There are a lot of things on this table that I've never done before.

[Doug Shepard]

3" square legs (If that's a little big, I do I expect to be doing a fair amount of leaning on the table. It is going to be a functional table as well as hopefully aesthetically pleasing!)
2 1/4" rails
Just MHO but I think the legs are going to look somewhat clunky if they're thicker than the rails are wide. I've built a couple tables about that size and depending on the height and size I think the legs have been around 2-1/8 to 2-1/2 at he top and tapering to 1-1/8 to 1-3/8 or so at the bottoms with rails in the 3 to 4" range. If you're going to stick with the 3" legs I think I'd increase the rail width. Any way you could mock this up in SketchUp first and see what it looks like?

[Sam Yerardi]

Hi Amy,

I just finished a cabinet in a different style but there were some things that might be of help to you/ I posted a picture of it on here so if you do s earch for my posts you'll find it. It is cherry low boy. The comment about 3" sqr legs looking clunky is well-taken. If you look at what I did, I carved the front two legs cabriole but I didn't have 3x3 stock so I use 2 x2 straight stock for the rear legs and it does look clunky. You might consider a taper whether plumb or canted to the outside corner. Oak is going to be very strong and you won't lose much by doing this.
On the edge around your top surface, I used mitres as well. I was copying a Newport design that used that. However, since my top was a panel of glued-up boards, I had to accomodate for wood movement. You shouldn't have too much problem in that area so the biscuit approach should work. Where you could see a problem is at your mitres when the wood moves. You might consider butt-joint or mortise and tenon at the corners rather than mitres.

I love period furniture and once I built a three-mirror dresser with cabriole legs, etc. When I first got married we found a three-mirror dresser in the attic of the house I bought. The central mirror was large with a wing mirror on each side. These were hinged. Amazingly my wife sold it (I still cringe over that) so I built another one. If you change your mind about the single mirror design you might consider that.

[Amy Leigh Baker]

Hi guys,

Attached is a picture of the original inspiration for my table. Simple parsons table design, and I really like the style (except for the paint... yuck!) I figured it would be good for my first big project. It has 3" legs and because the 3/4" tabletop would add to the rails, you also have 3" rails. I figured I would just modify the dimensions to fit what I needed. But then I decided I would like an overhang on the tabletop, finished by using either a round-over edge or something like a roman-ogee edge with a router, but that brought up the problem of the rails being a different size than the legs. I am at the point where I could be ripping rails, so I need to figure this out.

BTW, The legs are past the point of no return. They will be 3". And I have bought the wood for the rails and would have to buy new stock to make them 3". Not out of the question, but definitely a something for me to consider.

Any additional input would be appreciated!

-Amy

[Paul Simmel]

Amy,

IMO, if you round-over or mill an Ogee onto the top's overhang you will have lost your contemporary feel.

Chances are that if you stick to your plan and go with the 1x3's, even with an overhang, the lines will look alright. It really needs to be drawn up though.

[Sam Yerardi]

Amy,

Paul has a good suggestion. Drawing up the design to scale in proportion will point out imbalances, etc. between stock sizes in the piece. Also, in your drawing, add in the various edge modlings you are considering to see how they affect the piece. Build it on paper first. Even on small projects, I always draw it up first because invariably it will point out something. If you don't draw it up first there's a good chance you might get backed into a corner design-wise that you didn't count on and it could end up changing the piece, it's look, etc.

[Paul Simmel]

Try this. If you have SU, I can upload the file.

80267

[George Bregar]

I think the proportion is fine, although an ogee detail would not be very contemporary (nor would oak, but hey). You didn't say the dimensions of the mirror. Here is what it looks like based on your original design.

BTW, 3" legs are not necessary from a structural standpoint. That could support a truck!

[Amy Leigh Baker]

You didn't say the dimensions of the mirror.

I want as much mirror space as I can get, so the mirror frame will also be 40"W, and I hadn't decided on the height of it yet... probably close to 2 feet tall? Again, 3" frame on all four sides with mitered joints. With a tabletop even with the rails, attaching it would be easy. With an overhang, I'm not so sure.


IMO, if you round-over or mill an Ogee onto the top's overhang you will have lost your contemporary feel.

Chances are that if you stick to your plan and go with the 1x3's, even with an overhang, the lines will look alright. It really needs to be drawn up though.

Yes I like straight lines and a contempory look, but I'm not stuck on it. I like the look of a rounded edge, as well as it being more comfortable. Applying makeup means lots of leaning on the edge! But I agree, keeping a consistent look through the project should be important. It's nice to know I can stick with the 2 1/4" rails. I think I really need to get set up on SketchUp. I think that would really help me make many of my decisions.

Also, I started a new thread mentioning this, but I would also like two small drawers on the right underside of the table. But those would most definitely be straight lines. I don't think they would interfere with the design concept of the table.


BTW, 3" legs are not necessary from a structural standpoint. That could support a truck!

Well, chuck that one up to my lack of experience! It's nice to know I could sit on it :)

BTW, thanks for the sketches. They have already made me feel pretty good about this design! I like the mitered frame in the tabletop a lot!

[George Bregar]

I want as much mirror space as I can get, so the mirror frame will also be 40"W, and I hadn't decided on the height of it yet... probably close to 2 feet tall? Again, 3" frame on all four sides with mitered joints. With a tabletop even with the rails, attaching it would be easy. With an overhang, I'm not so sure.



Yes I like straight lines and a contempory look, but I'm not stuck on it. I like the look of a rounded edge, as well as it being more comfortable. Applying makeup means lots of leaning on the edge! But I agree, keeping a consistent look through the project should be important. It's nice to know I can stick with the 2 1/4" rails. I think I really need to get set up on SketchUp. I think that would really help me make many of my decisions.

Also, I started a new thread mentioning this, but I would also like two small drawers on the right underside of the table. But those would most definitely be straight lines. I don't think they would interfere with the design concept of the table.



Well, chuck that one up to my lack of experience! It's nice to know I could sit on it :)

BTW, thanks for the sketches. They have already made me feel pretty good about this design! I like the mitered frame in the tabletop a lot! My two cents: I would bring in the mirror slightly. Make it 30" wide. I thinking hanging drawers may cause an issue in sitting. How about building one wide shallow drawer into the front rail. Also would not interfere with the symmetry or overall design of the piece. I wouldn't miter the top, but if you are going to go with plywood versus a solid glue up, then it's a good solution. A bullnose or roundover is good, and contemporary, but ogee no. I don't think it would look good even if that was your goal considering the design. Much more important than leg cross section is construct and rail size. Not sure of your intentions but m&t would be best. I would corner block it to prevent racking...and to secure the top.

[Tom Sontag]

I'll leave the dimensions to the others, but one thing that jumps at me about how this might look is obscured in all the Sketchup views: oak has a very pronounced grain to it. The (probably plainsawn oak) plywood top will have a very directional feel and those legs, unless made of riftsawn oak, could have some distracting grain lines.

One of the things that makes a parson's table a very modern looking design is the clean strong shape. Imagine your piece in black lacquer to get my drift. Wood grain, celebrated in Craftsman designs, might detract from this piece. If so, consider using riftsawn oak throughout which will give consistent looking legs from any angle and let the lines of the piece do the talking. My opinion.

This thread illustrates my point somewhat: http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=60075

[Lee Koepke]

Not sure if the drawers would work. They may take away from the leg room.

What about the drawers on top of the table. On either side of the mirror???

Good luck and keep thinking it thru:cool:

[Amy Leigh Baker]

I've gotten set up on SketchUp thanks to Dave Richards and that is helping me a lot, even though I haven't completed the design yet (but I'm close). I can't work much during the week due to work and cold weather, so I'm concentrating on deciding on some design issues. I have a couple of things I would like people's opinions on.


I'll leave the dimensions to the others, but one thing that jumps at me about how this might look is obscured in all the Sketchup views: oak has a very pronounced grain to it. The (probably plainsawn oak) plywood top will have a very directional feel and those legs, unless made of riftsawn oak, could have some distracting grain lines.

I have decided that I like the 3" mitered frame around the table top, however something occured to me this morning that would help the concern quoted above, which was a concern of mine as well. Instead of using a oak plywood top, what about putting a 3/4" piece of glass in the center of the design? I don't know if it would even be close to my price range, but it was a fleating thought as I washed my hair morning :) I am assuming there would be an adequate way of supporting something like this from the frame I am contemplating?

Also, as this is not a centerpiece table, meaning it's place will always be against the wall in a bedroom, the logical part of my mind says I should make three sides of the top consistent, and the fourth designed to butt up against the wall. For example, if I decide on an overhand, not to have it on the wall side. And with putting a mirror on the wall side, it seems having the look of the mitered edges on that side will conflict with the mirror, so I thought about butt joints on the wall side. I have yet to have time to draw all this yet, so part of this is thinking out loud.

[George Bregar]

I've gotten set up on SketchUp thanks to Dave Richards and that is helping me a lot, even though I haven't completed the design yet (but I'm close). I can't work much during the week due to work and cold weather, so I'm concentrating on deciding on some design issues. I have a couple of things I would like people's opinions on.



I have decided that I like the 3" mitered frame around the table top, however something occured to me this morning that would help the concern quoted above, which was a concern of mine as well. Instead of using a oak plywood top, what about putting a 3/4" piece of glass in the center of the design? I don't know if it would even be close to my price range, but it was a fleating thought as I washed my hair morning :) I am assuming there would be an adequate way of supporting something like this from the frame I am contemplating?

Also, as this is not a centerpiece table, meaning it's place will always be against the wall in a bedroom, the logical part of my mind says I should make three sides of the top consistent, and the fourth designed to butt up against the wall. For example, if I decide on an overhand, not to have it on the wall side. And with putting a mirror on the wall side, it seems having the look of the mitered edges on that side will conflict with the mirror, so I thought about butt joints on the wall side. I have yet to have time to draw all this yet, so part of this is thinking out loud. Know that it has to be tempered glass. You can't and shouldn't use plate glass as it is dangerous if someone falls through it. Tempered glass is very pricey. I would keep the overhang...better symettry and it accounts for the base moulding.

[Doug Shepard]

Why does the glass have to be 3/4" thick? Why not 1/4 or 3/8" then you could have it sit in a rabbeted ledge plus maybe one or two cross supports between the long rails. I've set 1/2" corian in a mitered frame that way and it's plenty sturdy but having the glass be the same thickness as the top complicates things plus probably jacks the cost up even higher.

[Amy Leigh Baker]

Why does the glass have to be 3/4" thick? Why not 1/4 or 3/8" then you could have it sit in a rabbeted ledge plus maybe one or two cross supports between the long rails. I've set 1/2" corian in a mitered frame that way and it's plenty sturdy but having the glass be the same thickness as the top complicates things plus probably jacks the cost up even higher.

I agree. I just made my first call to a glass company for prices. 3/4" at the dimensions I would need would be $171.00. They asked what the application was, and it was their opinion that for my uses it would be more than sufficient to use 3/8", the price would be $33.00, and as long as I didn't sit on it or "put all my pots & pans" on it it would be fine.


I would keep the overhang...better symettry and it accounts for the base moulding.

Okay, so if I have an overhang how do I attach the mirror? I think the mirror should line up with the rails, not flush with the edge of the overhang. This puts a 1x frame on it's edge in the middle of the table. I can't picture how I could attach it.

[George Bregar]

I agree. I just made my first call to a glass company for prices. 3/4" at the dimensions I would need would be $171.00. They asked what the application was, and it was their opinion that for my uses it would be more than sufficient to use 3/8", the price would be $33.00, and as long as I didn't sit on it or "put all my pots & pans" on it it would be fine. Seems cheap for tempered glass.


Okay, so if I have an overhang how do I attach the mirror? I think the mirror should line up with the rails, not flush with the edge of the overhang. This puts a 1x frame on it's edge in the middle of the table. I can't picture how I could attach it. Forgot about the mirror. :p You could stick with your idea and just use a cleat to strap it to the back, but it will be on the wall bacause of the base moulding on the wall. Or you could route a route a shallow mortise and make a tenon on the bottom mirror frame, then screw it in from the bottom. Or make a seperate mirror and simply hang it on the wall...this will allow it to be hung high enough.

[Paul Simmel]

Are those prices for tempered??? If so PLEASE post your source!

Edit: I'm going to be finishing a shower soon. Please, if tempered post your source.

[Amy Leigh Baker]

No, those prices were not tempered. I found the same glass, tempered, for $50 at one shop and $70 at another.

I'm attaching two drawings of my latest design. It's still not finished, but you could give your thoughts on what I've done so far.
I made the rails 3"
The tabletop overhangs 1 1/8" which puts the 3" 1x's on the tabletop frame centered on the apron rails. Note, there is no overhang in the back, where the mirror attaches and will butt up against the wall.
The top is mitered in front, but has butt joints in the back, to keep the lines of the mitered corner from interfering with the mirror lines.
Also to keep the lines in the top from interfering, I have made two examples. One has a small back rail which sticks out past the mirror. The other looks better to me, but I'm not sure about how to build it, or if it will support the glass correctly. I've also provided a back view for this.
I am still on the fence about the mirror size. It seems very overpowering, but it is kind of the amount of mirror space I want. Any ideas?

[George Bregar]

I dunno Amy. I would take that SU and add the glass and mirror in, and then the rest wood. See if you still like it. I just think it is getting too many different surfaces, and all different geometries. Oak, mirror, and glass. Miters and butt joints.

If you want the mirror size large, increase the size of the piece, and keep the mirror inside the rails. Use miters on all or frame and panel joints...I would do the later...and do it all around (your current design will not support the glass of course). I also would forego the glass. It will show fingerprints and smudges, especially in a "make-up" role. Glass cleaner is not a very good substance to get on any urethane type topcoat. The previous caution for using a solid oak top, either in a glue up or using framed plywood, was a poor one. Go back and look, the examples shown were for solid wood raised panels which exaggerate the wild grain. Carefully select stock that is straight grained for the top frame, as well as plywood. Most oak plywood is not that wild.

Anyway, my two cents. HTH.

[Paul Simmel]

No, those prices were not tempered. I found the same glass, tempered, for $50 at one shop and $70 at another.

I'm attaching two drawings of my latest design. It's still not finished, but you could give your thoughts on what I've done so far.
I made the rails 3"
The tabletop overhangs 1 1/8" which puts the 3" 1x's on the tabletop frame centered on the apron rails. Note, there is no overhang in the back, where the mirror attaches and will butt up against the wall.
The top is mitered in front, but has butt joints in the back, to keep the lines of the mitered corner from interfering with the mirror lines.
Also to keep the lines in the top from interfering, I have made two examples. One has a small back rail which sticks out past the mirror. The other looks better to me, but I'm not sure about how to build it, or if it will support the glass correctly. I've also provided a back view for this.
I am still on the fence about the mirror size. It seems very overpowering, but it is kind of the amount of mirror space I want. Any ideas?

Those are good prices for that glass!

-=-=-=-

Amy,

I can see exactly what is wrong. You are so very close.

No one is going to talk you out of the mitered top rails… and that’s good. So keep them. Glass, ply, etc., matters not in your design. But you **need** to simply stick with the simple lines and do the table top the same all around.

That in itself will produce a beautiful table. Dimensionally it’s very pleasing (legs thickness, apron size, top rails mitered (same size as your sketch)). So just stop there. You have accomplished your goal for the table itself.

Leave everything black & white… do not color anything. You’re looking at lines and proportion… which you have accomplished.

**Now**, draw in a wall behind the table. Color that if you want. Resize your mirror to exactly duplicate your top. Better yet, Copy your top and make it your mirror. Then position your mirror about 1” above your table top. (You can play with that 1” number. Maybe you will like 2”, etc.)

Your table will then stand out in all of its glory, and your mirror will very, very nicely compliment your magnificent table.

Note: To Copy, use the Move Tool, and push Ctr first (you will see a “+” sign).

Edit: You can also post the SU file so those who have SU can "fiddle" with it. Makes it easier on us.

[Bert Johansen]

Amy, I have just now read your thread, and concur with the last post. Keep it simple. Here is a table design of mine that served me well as my main dining room for many years. Now I use it in the shop for assembly work. It has a plywood top that sits on the legs, and is supported by many small cleats along the top rails that are glued in place. It is finished with automotive lacquer and originally had a marvelous look. And it will support lots of weight.

The top of the legs are notched to accept the rails, which are mitered at the corners. Very simple design. Built it in one day.

Click on this link to see the photo: Lock miter

[Earl Kelly]

Amy,

Please only use tempered glass on your table. It is more expensive, but if there's ever an accident, it's money well spent.

Concerning your mirror- Place the mirror where it will be used at. If your using this as a Vanity down low is fine, otherwise it is common to hang a mirror at eye level. I wouldn't be concerned with matching the width to the table. A taller narrow mirror may be more pleasing to the eye.

Earl

[Amy Leigh Baker]

Here's what I've done...

It will definitely be a detached mirror hung on the wall. Much easier this way.
Tabletop will be all wood. Glass would be gorgeous but just not practical.
I added a shallow drawer that's "hidden" as the front apron. Poplar box with fingerjoints (if I can do them) and 3/4" oak face to match the table.
I added a small cabinet to fit more of my tall items. I thought about making the cabinet front etched glass. I love the look and it might make the drawer seem less obtrusive. However it might make it more obtrusive.
Still haven't decided on mirror size, but it's not important yet.So essentially the front apron will be false all the way across. I really would like to not have the cabinet, but the table is kind of pointless if I can't store certain things within arm's reach.

I really have no idea how I will mount the drawer yet other than by some above mounted slides.

Please let me know any comments or suggestions!

Thanks guys!

Amy

P.S. I tried to load the SU file for your manipulation, but it is too big. I will figure that out later.

[Paul Simmel]

Looks ok to me. You can mount a drawer slide to the drawer frame on the right, and run a rail along the left side of the apron drawer to each leg on the left to mount the other drawer slide.

You know your top is going to be the only thing holding the table together on the front. If it suits you, by all means build it.

Good luck.