Need patent attorney that does woodworking

[Phil Thien]

Hello. I would like to find an intellectual property attorney that does woodworking that is at least familiar with the ideas behind dust collection to help me secure a patent.

I'm in Milwaukee (WI) but don't see geography as an issue. I'd almost rather not deal with an attorney that would want me to visit (I have a busy schedule) but would rather try to do as much electronically as possible.

Please PM me if this is your line of work and you're interested.

[Steve knight]

the thign with patents these days is really all they offer you is the right to fight for your rights. that means you need the money to afford to fight.
so unless this will make you over about 1/2 mill it may not be worth the cost.

[Matt Meiser]

Phil, going to engineering school I was always told that the basically if you want to patent something it shouldn't be shown to anyone until the patent was applied for. Since you've published your design on the web you might not even have the ability to fight anything, even if you do obtain a patent. I'm sure an attorney can help you determine that though.

[Phil Thien]

Since you've published your design on the web you might not even have the ability to fight anything, even if you do obtain a patent.

Separate idea from the baffle, there has been no public disclosure on this device.

[Greg Funk]

I believe you have one year to file once an invention is offered for sale or becomes public.

You can show the idea to others as long as they are covered by a non-disclosure agreement.

I worked for Motorola about 15 yrs ago and they had all the engineers follow a few simple guidelines. Keep all your design notes/drawings in a notebook with numbered pages using pen not pencil. Make sure each page is dated and don't tear out any pages from the notebook. Have the relevant design notes witnessed by someone. Following these steps won't help with your patent filing but would be useful if a dispute were to arise.

Greg

[Phil Thien]

Since you've published your design on the web you might not even have the ability to fight anything, even if you do obtain a patent.

BTW, I believe that public disclosure (which in the case of baffle was not the web page) only starts a one-year timer to get an application filed. It also precludes one from patent protection in most other countries (most don't allow for any public disclosure).

In reality, the patent system is broken enough that none of this matters much unless one has the $250k to protect an invention through a lawsuit and a couple of appeals. Funny how a system intended to protect the lowly inventor has been usurped by corporations with fat wallets. :rolleyes:

[Greg Funk]

Funny how a system intended to protect the lowly inventor has been usurped by corporations with fat wallets. :rolleyes:
Unfortunately, even corporations with fat wallets can get stung by patent actions if they become sucessful enough. Take a look at the $600M RIM had to pay for a set of essentially worthless patents.

Patents can be useful for defensive purposes as well, particularly if you are a small company operating in a space occupied by larger players.

[Matthew Poeller]

Phil,

This is something I know about. I am the VP of Engineering for a small company and I have been filing patent applications lately. Everything that is said here is true. We file provisional patents to ward off competitors early in the game so we can gain market advantage. For the most part it is not worth paying the price for a patent if you do not have the money to defend it.

Here is the deal:
If you just want to try and sell the idea to someone just file a provisional patent. It will protect you for a year and is the basis behind patent pending. You have one year from the date that you file the provisional to start filing the real patent. If you let the time lapse nothing happens, you just cannot patent you idea. The cost is only $105 and it is easy to do online. You do not have to make any claims. You will need a description, a drawing if applicable, and one of their forms, SB16. You can get that on their website if you want, if not mail me and I will send it to you. The description has some key elements that need to be addressed. The best way I have found to do this is to go to legalzoom, sign up, use an e-mail address you do not mind getting spam at and go through the excercise for filing a provisional patent. Everything that they ask, in that order, per paragraph, is what needs to go into your description (there are some things asked in order of them to fill out form SB16). Or if you do not care to do that, here you go:

What is the title of your invention?
(The title should be a brief description of what the invention is, as opposed to a brand or maketing name. Please click "help" for additional information.)

What are the objectives of your invention? In other words, what does the invention accomplish, or how does it improve what currently exists?
(Please limit your answer to 150 words and use full sentences.)

Please provide a brief summary of how your invention works -- in other words, how it achieves its objective. You will have an opportunity to provide greater detail later.

Are there any different ways your invention may be used?

Can your invention be constructed or assembled in a different way to achieve the same objective?

Please explain how your invention may be structured differently.

Please list and describe the main components or steps of your invention. This should include the name of each part or step, and a description of how each works.

How do these components or steps work together, and how is the invention used?
(If there is only one component, you only need to provide additional details on how it works.)

__________________________________________________ ____________

REMEMBER: JUST BECAUSE YOU HAVE FILED FOR A PROVISIONAL PATENT DOES NOT ME THAT YOU WILL BE AWARDED A PATENT. PROVISIONAL PATENTS ARE NOT EXAMINED FOR THEIR MERITS.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

Any Patent atty will do just fine.
They all have a science education. Its one of the requirements of the patent bar.

There is a test that you can take to get around that but the test is no small thing. It is essentially everything you'd have learned in engineering school math.

[Phil Thien]

Thanks guys, someone was kind enough to send me a search engine for finding patent attorneys using a geographic search.

I had a couple of meetings w/ a 50-ish patent attorney and I seemed to have an easier time explaining things to a 25-ish associate that was sitting-in that understood everything from the start. But then he (the young guy) left and I was spoon feeding the 50-ish guy again.

That wasn't going to work, so I'll just try a few more until I meet someone I can work with.

[Mike Henderson]

Getting a patent is not that expensive - or at least it shouldn't be. It can take three years or more from first submission to granting of the patent - at least that's my experience.

As Steve pointed out earlier, having a patent only grants you the right to assert that patent against others. That means if some company builds a product which uses the thing you patented, you have to discover the infringement, notify the company of the claimed infringement and bring suit if they deny infringement (which they almost always do). And if you're going up against a company with deep pockets, there better be a very significant payoff from the suit or you'll never get an attorney to take the case.

For most companies, having a bunch of patents has more value when they negotiate cross license agreements with other companies. It's sort of "Here's my stack, let's see how high your stack is. That will determine the kind of deal we do."

I'm not saying that a patent can't be a very valuable thing, but it has to be something that affects a lot of "value" in order to make it worth while to fight the fight.

Good luck!

Mike

[Jeffrey Makiel]

In reality, the patent system is broken enough that none of this matters much unless one has the $250k to protect an invention through a lawsuit and a couple of appeals. Funny how a system intended to protect the lowly inventor has been usurped by corporations with fat wallets. :rolleyes:

This not only applies to patent law, but to just about all criminal and civil actions too. Like healthcare, there's too much profit in litigation these days.

-Jeff :)

[John Karas]

Hi Phil

In regards to a patent if you have advertised before is an application filed than i'm sorry can not be patent .

Also in regards that you got one year after the first sale of this product to Patent this product this is totaly wrong.

Every one has ideas some is totaly new inventions some is an improved product ideas but nothing is guarantee that will be patent if it shows in the searches that may something elses is similar to your idea.

Inregards to the patent application is some protection but becose is not foully patent will be very hard to get someone to buy the idea also you can take someone that copy your idea to the court but is not advisable to do so becose your idea is not foully patent.

When the time comes up to be foully patent if the patent office when they do the searches find something similar to your idea than will not be Patent. or they will ask you to ammend your claims so if you not Patent for any of this reasons the person you have taken to the court prior he can sue you for damages.

Best thing if you want to disclose your idea to someone is to getting him or her to sign a non confidentiality form.

Also to try to sue someone throu the courts yes will be a lots of monies but do not forget if you spent $1000.00 the other person will spent the same amount as well & so on but if you are the patent holder in most cases the other person dropping of due that he does not have any grounds at the court.

I'm talking due to my personal experiences with 16 international patents.


I hope this been some help to you .

John