Thumbnail Molding Plane

[Robert Rozaieski]

Anyone here use a molding plane with a thumbnail profile for table and drawer lip edges? I am planning a project with a top and a lipped drawer that I would like to put this profile on, however, I have not been able to find a plane specific to this task. I know it can be done with a rabbet plane or moving filletster and a few hollows, but this does not seem to me like it would make a consistent profile. I would consider making a couple in sizes specific for the two parts but I don't even have a picture of the sole of one to work off of. Anyone have one they could share some pictures of?

[Sam Yerardi]

Robert,

Go to:
http://www.sover.net/~nichael/nlc-wood/chapters/images/kean-fig1.gif

And navigate backwards from there for the text.

[Robert Rozaieski]

Thanks! These are actually ovolos (which are quite common on the antique market) and not exactly what I'm looking for. The problem with this profile is the outside fillet on the edge of the board. For a table top, one could plane this fillet off, however, the flat left behind would then still need to be planed with a hollow, which would defeat the purpose of a purpose built plane. On a drawer side, one would need to account for the amount to be planed off while sizing the drawer front, and this does not seem right to me. I think the profile would be stuck after the drawer front was dimensioned to final size.

[Sam Yerardi]

I know they are ovolos, I just thought you wanted something as sort of guide to make the profile. On the ones I've done, I've used combinations of planes and even chisels. If you can't find the profile the drawing I attached might be a place to start. It's a straight down design rather than a sprung design. The parabola portion might be too deep/steep.

[Sam Yerardi]

If you have access to a Stanley 45 it has cutters shaped like the parabola I drew. You would first have to cut down the rabbet and then cut the rounded edge. I have used this procedure before and it does work.

[Robert Rozaieski]

Thanks again Sam! I thought about just planing a rebate and using a few hollows, which will certainly give me the profile I want, I just thought maybe there could be a better way. Heres an idea of the drawer profile I want to create and an idea I have based on a sash ovolo where I''ve left off the outside fillet. This might work except I'm not sure how the fence would register considering there is no outside fillet to reference off of. Might be worth an experiment but I'd hate to go through the effort of building it only to find it won't work, especially if a proven design already exists.

[Pedro Reyes]

Not that I ever used one, but have you considered making a scratch stock to meet your profile?

You could remove the bulk with several passes of a simple 78, and finish off with a scratch stock made out of an old saber saw blade.

/p

[Sam Yerardi]

Robert,

If you look at the low boy I posted, that's essentially how I did the thumbnails on the drawers. And I finished them up with Pedro's suggestion of using a scratch stock. it's starnge that you asked this question becasue last night I was standing in the shop thinking about making a plane to do just this.

[Maurice Metzger]

Hi Robert,

Not sure, but I think what you want is a "casing" profile:


80044


(The area with the gray lines represents the blade)

HTH,
Maurice

[Robert Rozaieski]

Thanks Maurice! I've actually seen something like these called table planes. They usually come in a pair for making the two mating halves of a rule joint, however, I don't think they would work so well on the end grain of table tops or drawers. Rule joints were typically made along the long grain of a board so working from the edge as these planes are designed to do would not be an issue. However, if you try to plane the ends of a drawer or table top with these, you would be planing end grain and I don't think they would behave so well (not to mention that if you were working on a table top you would need to stand on a ladder to plane the ends which certainly doesn't seem right; one would want to work from the face of the top with the board flat on the bench). Most molding planes that I've seen designed for planing board edges and ends (i.e. cabinet ogee, cabinet ovolo) are designed to sink the profile from the face of the board, therefore cutting across the long grain on the ends rather than cutting against the end grain. Another thing I've noticed about these planes is that I have not seen them sized any smaller than 1/2". For a lipped drawer front, a profile this size would simply be to large as lipped drawer front profiles are more along the lines of 1/4" to 3/8".

I'm beginning to wonder if the rabbet and hollows method isn't historically accurate, at least for drawer lips. I've never seen anything in the wild to suggest otherwise at this point. Maybe someone has a refernce to something in a book?

[greg Forster]

Robert:

Yes, "thumbnail" planes do exsist. I have one in yellow birch, which would work down off the drawer face. It is similar to your drawing, except (besides being unsprung) the outside edge of the thumbnail comes to the edge of the molding plane-- no fence to register. I've never used it and think it would be difficult to "track", but I remember that the plane is extremely worn from use.
Also, on some difficult wood the end grain thumbnails could be carved in. The plane is 1600 miles from me currently and I can't recall the pitch; if it was set up at a cabinet pitch or not

[Robert Rozaieski]

Robert:

Yes, "thumbnail" planes do exsist. I have one in yellow birch, which would work down off the drawer face. It is similar to your drawing, except (besides being unsprung) the outside edge of the thumbnail comes to the edge of the molding plane-- no fence to register. I've never used it and think it would be difficult to "track", but I remember that the plane is extremely worn from use.
Also, on some difficult wood the end grain thumbnails could be carved in. The plane is 1600 miles from me currently and I can't recall the pitch; if it was set up at a cabinet pitch or not

Thanks Greg! I knew there had to be something out there. If you ever do get a chance, I would appreciate a picture of it if it wouldn't be too much trouble.

Do you recall if the plane cuts the step of the thumbnail? Since there is no fence to register (I kind of figured that would be the case), I'm thinking that perhaps one is supposed to sink the step with a rabbet plane first and then the thumbnail plane might plane up to the rabbet, using it as a stop of sorts to know when the profile is done, i.e., when the plane meets the step of the rabbet, you're done? Another possibility is that one would clamp a batten/fence to the piece being planed to guide the plane, similar to how a dado plane would be used.

Thanks a lot!

[Sam Yerardi]

Robert,

I was thinking of your question last night while I was looking through one of Michael Dunbar's books (Restoring, Tuning, and Using Classic Woodworking Tools) and I no sooner turned the page and there was a thumbnail plane. It was not a sprung plane, and it only cut the top surface and not the underside rounding. Dunbar said you start the cutting of the rounded edge (remove the arris) first. As you work the rounded edge down, you eventually make use of the fence-edge of the plane against the outside of the thumnail. The plane doesn't have a fence, it's just the inner edge of the sole that acts like a fence. At that point you are beginning to cut the rabbet at the top. It ends up being the last thing cut.

[Robert Rozaieski]

That makes sense, thanks! That is actually exactly what I'm looking for, more of a quarter round (no rounded profile on the back side). I don't need the rounded profile on the bottom edge as this was not the profile used on drawer fronts and I want the top profile to match the drawers (i.e. flat on the bottom). Thanks again!

[Robert Rozaieski]

Sam, did it look like this?