Newbie's Table Saw search

[Dennis Parslow]

I am the latest newbie to Sawmill and wanted to share my own expreriences while trying to get the "right" table saw for me. I started building things when I was a penny-pinching bachelor who HATES "fake" wood products. So, I bought a cheap circ saw, chisels, router, and a few hand tools, then eventually a cheap Craftsman 10" $175 table saw that has NEVER produced any quality despite every attempt to get it to and built my own entertainment center, bookcases, and STURDY coffee table.
All ok, but not refined.
Now, I have My half" of a two-car garage, an understaning wife and want to get a better saw to make a houseful of furniture and eventually, hopefully make money at woodworking.
I go crazy whenever I buy anything so I spend countless hours getting info until I know more than almost any salesman and then finally buy. I haven't gotten to that point with table saws.
I do not want the motor hanging out the back, I want cast iron, and I don't want to spend so much that I can't afford any blades to go with my WW1, so true cabinet saws are out.
I will share my expereinces in a second, but for now I have a couple of questions for the vets; can you produce high quality with a contractor's saw? Do you all have cast iron wings, or do a lot of you have steel, or do you retro fit into cabinets, add router tables instead?

[frank shic]

my powermatic contractor's table saw has produced a set of kitchen cabinets, three massive built-ins, a bathroom vanity, a computer desk and an entire batch of shop cabinets for the garage. i've got it tricked out with an exaktor sliding table, a digifence, a sharkguard and a modulus 2000 scoring unit to maximize its ability to cut sheet goods without having to break them down with a circular saw.

if i were to do it all over again, i'd consider investing in one of those ridgid models with the herc-u-lift.

good luck on your search!

[Chuck Lenz]

I do not want the motor hanging out the back, I want cast iron, and I don't want to spend so much that I can't afford any blades to go with my WW1, so true cabinet saws are out.
Can you produce high quality with a contractor's saw? Do you all have cast iron wings, or do a lot of you have steel, or do you retro fit into cabinets, add router tables instead?
Sounds like you want a Hybrid saw to me. I don't know why your asking about Contractors saws if you don't want the motor out the back. And you can't afford a Cabinet saw. I think you know what you want.

[Michael Gibbons]

Usually a price range is in order for us to give you a fair answer. New or used? Are you willing to rebuild? Space limitations? Stationary or on a mobile base?

[Mark Roderick]

I've been woodworking for about 20 years. During that entire time I've been using an old benchtop Delta Rockwell saw inherited from my grandfather. It has an 8" blade and a 3/4 horsepower motor. I built a solid stand and side table and equipped it with a 30" Biesmeyer fence.

It does a very good job. To the extent it has weaknesses as compared to a real cabinet saw, and I'm sure it does, I've compensated for them one way or another. For example, I have very good bankdsaw and very good handtools and if I'm building a fine table I clean up the edges with a jointer plane (another expensive tool I don't have: a jointer). But the cuts off my little saw are very, very good and with the Biesmeyer fence it's perfectly accurate.

I would have replaced the saw with a Powermatic or something equivalent a long time ago if it weren't for the sentimental value.

You could do fabulous woodworking with a contractor-level saw. If you bought a true cabinet saw you'd be even happier.

Buying table saws seems to cause an incredible amount of the anxiety in the woodworking universe, much more than is justifed. You could paste all the possibilities to the wall, put on a blindfold, spin around 10 times and throw a dart and I guaranty you would be happy with the result. Really.

[Dennis Parslow]

So far I have gotten my hands on the following saws; Delta 36-979, Hitachi C10-FL, Ridgid 3650, Jet 708100, Steel City Hybrid, Crafstman 22124, and 22114.
Many people say that the Jet is better than the Delta, WHY? Is it just because of the motor underneath and the TEFC and Vac? other than that the Delta comes with CI Wings and the base seems much sturdier. Plus you can get it for $599 with a built in stand and a T2 fence, which seems sturdier than the fence on the Jet 708100 which I can get for $450 (last one) but it has cheapo steel wings, and a lesser fence.

The Hitachi had steel wings too, and a two piece fence rail. Other than that I just don't like Hitachi, but that's just me.

I would love to buy "American" but can't seem to figure out a saw that is 100% American...

The Ridgid is rock-solid and I have had great luck with their chop saws. the fence seems solid, and other than the motor hanging out the back I would get that. I just built all rolling carts that will double as outfeeds so I don't want the motor getting in the way.

the Craftsman 22114 had a crappy fence, and just all around seemed like crap.

The 22124 comes with the much-luaded Bies fence, and seems like a good saw, but it is over $1000 right now.

the Steel City was the best saw that I touched and actually go to use with Ron from Forrest at my local Woodcraft. It seems like an incredible saw and I would buy in a second if I could afford the $1000 bucks. It's $999 -$100 rebate + mobile stand. The fence was sturdy, locked down great, didn't move, and slid easily. The controls are smooth and solid. Awesome, but really too much for me.

Hopefully my .02 will help the rest of you in the same boat as me. I know these saws have been talked about a lot and since I actually played with them I thought I would chime in.

Now, the saw I have not touched, but that SEEMS like the best deal is the Jet Pro Shop 708482K, 30" Fence, CI wings. I can get it for $725 and that includes two 31" clamps as part of their Woodworking Event deal until April 30th. I would have to wait until April due to backorder, but unless someone that has one of these tells me I shouldn't I plan on getting that one.

Anyone have one?

[Tim Marks]

...can you produce high quality with a contractor's saw? Do you all have cast iron wings, or do a lot of you have steel, or do you retro fit into cabinets, add router tables instead?
1. Yes, a contractor saw can produce cuts as accurate as a hybrid or cabinet saw. Without the weight of a cabinet saw, you are more prone to suffering from vibration. Reportedly, the weight of the motor hanging off the back can mess up your sawblade alignment during an angled cut, but I have never noticed that as a problem. I have a Ridgid TS3650; it has consistantly been rated as one of the top daws. Great fence, great built in mobile base, innovative blade alignment feature (you don't need PALS to align this saw), cast iron wings. Look for a 10% off HD coupon in the USPS change of address kit...

A hybrid saw will give you better dust collection since it doesn't have the big opening in the back, although you can make some simple modifications to make the contractor saw virtually as efficient as a hybrid when connected to a dust collector (some openings are good, since you need to keep a high airflow to entrain the dust).

2. I prefer cast iron wings; they add weight to the saw and dampen vibration.

3. I prefer to have a separate router table. Whe I had a large space, I had
a nice large router table. Now that I am stuck into a 10x20 space, I added a bench dog cast iron router wing to my saw to save space. While it was expensive, I really hate the thought of paying $$$ for an MDF table, so went for the cast iron.

Nothing wrong with using a contractor saw instead of a hybrid; if you are budget limited, a decent contractor saw could last you your lifetime. If you need to move it occasionally (like a building contractor would), then it takes about 2 minute to pull the 80# motor off the back, significantly reducing the overall weight and making it much more portable.

ALl that being said, take a look at the new Grizzly G0661 hybrid with a riving knife (they call it a contractor saw, but it isn't). $725 + shipping.
http://www.grizzly.com/products/10-2-HP-Contractor-Style-Table-Saw-with-riving-knife/G0661

Another option is to watch your local craigslist; I have seen two Ridgids and a Delta contractor saw in the last month in the DC area, all for <$300.

[Chuck Lenz]

I go crazy whenever I buy anything so I spend countless hours getting info until I know more than almost any salesman and then finally buy. I haven't gotten to that point with table saws.

Yeah right. I think your second post shows otherwise. You know what you want, just buy the thing, it will impress your Forrest guy and you will be happy, or pinch pennys and regret it.

[George Sanders]

I have an ancient craftsman contractor saw that I bought for $20 and added a Mulecab fence to. It cuts very accurately too as I have built a cabinet to mount my PC router table on; a drill press table with cabinet underneath; an accessory table for a sliding cutoff fixture; and that's just the shop. In the house is a solid red oak entertainment center and a bookcase for most of my woodworking books.
All of this done with a 10" contractor's saw with a 1 1/2 HP motor. I have ripped 2" oak without bogging down. These old saws will often out perform new ones and are a fraction of the cost. I do recommend a better rip fence than the factory one. I like the saw so much that I bought another one for $60 at auction. The "new one" has a larger cast iron table and extension wings. The arbor housing is also cast iron and all that mass really helps out stability.

[Jim Heffner]

Dennis, sounds as if you are wanting a hybrid saw instead of a contractor saw. But, let say this...don't be so quick as to dismiss a good contractor type saw. There are thousands of them in use everywhere and will be around for a long time to come. If properly set up, aligned and tuned they can and will do about everything you would ever need to do in woodworking.

I agree that contractor saws are a bit messier than hybrid or cabinet saws, but that is one of the trade off's, just look around and find a good
brand of saw, start with a good used one and work from there. I would suggest some of the following brands but not limited to them either,
(1) Delta (2) Powermatic (3) General (4) GI (5) Grizzly (6) Ridgid
all these brands are good saws and will do the job for you.
I recently just bought a used Northstate contractor saw for $50.00
tuned it, cleaned it, changed the belt, built a stand for it and now this saw runs and cuts like a $500.00 brand new saw! This is my secondary
back-up saw to my other saw.....I plan on using it for a dedicated saw
for the shop. Just a couple of things to think about...hope it helps.....

[Dennis Parslow]

thanks guys, this is exactly the feedback I was looking for; real woodworker's experiences, rather than sales pitches, ego trips, etc.

[Dennis Parslow]

Chuck, thanks. the only reason I mentioned the motor thing is because some of the saws listed as contractor's now have the motor underneath like the Jet 708100, and the Hitachi C10-FL. If you read the mags and reviews they make it sound like you won't have enough power or accuracy with an out of box contractor's saw and once you upgrade the wings to CI and the Fence to Bies,etc. you spend much more anyway. From what I am hearing some of you real woodworkers are doing just fine with a contractor's saw so rather than wait I might just jump on the $450 Jet 708100 rather than waiting months for the $725 Jet Hybrid. I will do one or the other this weekend. This is the best forum I have seen and glad to be a member. Thanks,

[Chuck Lenz]

Chuck, thanks. the only reason I mentioned the motor thing is because some of the saws listed as contractor's now have the motor underneath like the Jet 708100, and the Hitachi C10-FL. If you read the mags and reviews they make it sound like you won't have enough power or accuracy with an out of box contractor's saw and once you upgrade the wings to CI and the Fence to Bies,etc. you spend much more anyway. From what I am hearing some of you real woodworkers are doing just fine with a contractor's saw so rather than wait I might just jump on the $450 Jet 708100 rather than waiting months for the $725 Jet Hybrid. I will do one or the other this weekend. This is the best forum I have seen and glad to be a member. Thanks,
Your penny pinching again, the Jet doesn't have the cast iron wings you wanted and the fence ( which is very important ) isn't anything to write home about. Your fooling yourself. If you want a Contractors saw I'd suggest the 36-979 at lowes for $450 and throw the T2 fence on it for another $150 or put a Unifence on it. Other than that I'd skip the hybrids and go straight for the Grizzly 1023 cabinet saw if your on a tight budget. The hybrids to me don't offer enough diffference between them and a Contractors saw to justify the extra cost. Dust collection can be done efficiently on a Contractors saw, but thats another story I don't care to get into. I have been working with wood for almost 30 years, I have a Delta Contractors saw with a 30" Unifence and mobile base that I bought new 13 years ago. I bought a link belt for it, built dust collection into it the way I want it, got the correct power hooked up to it, and it has served me very well. If I worked in the shop 8 hours a day, 5 days a week and could actually make a respectable wage at it I'd be looking for a cabinet saw. But I don't think thats going to happen, tried it once and I have no plans of ever going back to it. But to each his own, whatever floats your boat.

[scott spencer]

Dennis - Here's a recent discussion (http://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=74187) that should keep you reading for a while.

Keep us posted please...

[Dennis Parslow]

Ok, I went overboard as usual but am certain I will not regret the choice of saw. I originally placed an order for the Steel City hybrid but after talking to my brother, he thought I should opt for a "real" cabinet saw and get the riving knife and he would even kick in some money in exchange for woodwork. Who am I to argue with that?

FYI.. Woodcraft is having 10% off so they gave me that early. That, combined with the sale price of $1599, minus the mail -in $100 rebate, plus the two 31" clamps from Jet, a dealer pick up rather than having it shipped, and I get a saw to grow old with for $1339. Tough to beat.

I will have it in 10 days and will of course post pictures as well as a recap of the assembly for others considering a new table saw.

I can't wait to get started on my list of 30 things I am going to build for my house, plus whatever my brother wants :rolleyes:

[scott spencer]

Sounds terrific Dennis....I don't think you'll ever regret upgrading to that class of saw. Congrats and enjoy!

[David Weaver]

Dennis - I have the delta hybrid with biesemeyer. It's a decent saw, but a compromise. You won't be sorry you bought a full cabinet version of the saw. For longevity purposes due to the way the trunnion attaches, the table will probably stay flatter, and you'll love the riving knife.

[Dennis Parslow]

Thanks guys, I can't wait! The subpanel for the "shop" (garage) went in today so once the inspection is over tomorrow I can start wiring up the circuit for it and be ready when I bring it home in ten days.