Mortise Chisels

[Joe D'Attilio]

Ok after lots of research and visiting "almost" every hand tool sit eon the net - I'm having trouble finding a moderate set of mortise chisels - there are nto many options out there - Either they are $300 for 3 japanese or $300 for a set of Lee Nielsen (which just starting out I can not justify at this point) Don't worry if money wasn't an issue, I'd just pull a uhaul up to Lie Nielsen and ask for 2 of everything...

Perhaps I'm setting my sights too high? do i really need a 4-6 piece set or are mortise chisels the type of thing you can get by on with only 2 -3 sizes?

If so what are the most popular sizes for mortises, dovetails, etc? I do understand that this is personal preference; I'm just looking for what others find comfortable or use the most.

ALso are there other brands of mortise chisels out there other than

Nielsen
Sorby
Two Cherries
JApanese designs
HirshANd final question - if I am not current making alot of mortises or dovetails, or whatever - can i get by on a really good set of bench /bevel edge chisels?

[harry strasil]

1/4, 3/8 and 1/2 are the most common. but you can chop mortises with most any chisel.

easiest way is to start near the end, but not right at the end. with the bevel facing to the center, just keep the chisel orientated the same way and the natural slope of the bevel will move toward the end freeing up the chip. when you get to the center, start the same way and do the other end. reverse the chisel and chop out the center, not to deep to start to define sides. a light knife cut on the edge marks will keep the edges from splintering off on the first chopping, keep taking cuts till the desired depth is attained, clean out the bottom, then pare the ends to the mark.

recent flyer from either woodcraft has a full set of wood river bench chisels for $49 and rockler has some reasonably priced blue handled marples on sale.

[Sam Yerardi]

Harry's right. You will eventually find a set of chisels that work for you. Mortising chisels make the job much easier, but you can use beveled chisels. Stanley and Buck Brothers are other brands. I've had good luck with finding firmer, mortising, etc. chisels at flea markets and antique stores. I restore them and add new handles and ferrules (use brass pipe fittings) if needed. I would love to be able to afford a complete set of new chisels but if I had enough to do that there'd probably be something else I'd rather have in the shop.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

Seems to me that a whole set of 4 or 6 mortise chisel would sit idle for most of the time, with one or two sizes getting used most. I use 1/4 and 3/8 mortises most, but I'm not all tailless. There are some good vintage mortise chisels out there. I think most everybody made one. I have a French made pigsticker type, that has really suprised. Can't remember the brand, Acier something.

BTW, try out a Two Cherries before you buy. I hate the handles, they just seem to bulky.

[Mark Stutz]

Joe,
Don't get a whole set! Figure out what size tou will need for the first project...probably will be 1/4 or 3/8...a 5/16 may be a good compromise even...and buy one brand of one chisel. Use it and if you don't like it, you can easily sell that size. Unless you're using a lot of thick stock, a 1/2 won't be used much.
Pay attention to metric vs. Imperial sizes, since you may be matching the mortice width to the width of your plow plane blade, as in making doors. It is easier if the match, but not impossible if they don't.
If you bore out most of the mortice with a drill, brace/bit, etc, you can use any chisel to clean up the rest.
Consider the Oval Bolstered Mortice Chisels, aka pigstickers. I find them ugly and unappealing...but they work great! Tools for Working Wood carries the new Ray Isles and they are very nice. This style can usually be found as vintage as well.
Just my random thoughts on the subject. Hope it helps.

Mark

[Pedro Reyes]

Joe,

I got a lot of 8 (not a set) from England, used pigstickers in a bunch of different sizes. These are not marked for size and often don't necessarily end in 1/8ths (e.g. one looks to be something like 5/16ths or even 11/32nds if I try too hard to measure)

I also have a Sorby 1/4", love it. Honestly I pretty much just use 2, the Sorby and one of the Pigstickers which is right about a 1/4" give or take. The pigsticker is very fun to use, big massive tool that begs for a strike.

Never had a Japanese motice chisel, I've heard they could be brittle, but I can't speak to that.

In my opinion you should start with a 1/4", a lot of the wood you'll work with will be around 3/4" so a 1/4" follows that 1/3 rule, which in my opinoin should be an approximation not a hard rule.

hope this helps.

/p

[Danny Thompson]

I'm another big believer in getting one or two higher quality chisels instead of a big set of lower.

One way to make this strategy work is to buy and use a single 1/4" mortise chisel for the vast majority of your heavy chopping, then, if necessary, use your bevel-edge chisels to pare the mortise to final width. That is the route I am taking, anyway.

FWIW, I went with a hefty Ray Isles English Mortise Chisel (http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/Merchant/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=toolshop&Product_Code=MS-MORT.XX&Category_Code=TBMC).

[George Sanders]

I agree with Sam on flea market finds. The online auction site is too spendy for me and I love finding usable tools at real auctions, flea markets and junk shops. I get a lot of satisfaction from cleaning, sharpening, and using old tools. They aren't a set but they cover my needs and I didn't go broke buying them.

[Circa Bellum]

Some of you may remember that I posted a question last week about C.I. Fall mortising chisels. No one seemed to have tried them, so I went ahead and ordered a set to be the guinea pig. The arrived Monday and I have to say I'm pretty impressed with them. The finish on them is not elegant, they haven't been polished and the handles are quite plain other than the brass ferrules, but I chopped a couple of mortises with them right away and they handle well. I can't speak to longevity on them and hope to report about that later. but if you're not doing a lot of mortising, at $70 for a set of three I don't see how you could go wrong. Here's where I found them... http://www.traditionalwoodworker.com...ath/39_172_471 (http://www.traditionalwoodworker.com/default.php/cPath/39_172_471)

[Thomas Knighton]

FWIW, I went with a hefty Ray Isles English Mortise Chisel (http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/Merchant/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=toolshop&Product_Code=MS-MORT.XX&Category_Code=TBMC).

FWIW, that's the direction I'm probably going as well. By buying a really good chisel first, then getting another size later, you will eventually end up with a "set", and while it may be more costly per item that way, you have just what you need, rather than stuff you don't.

Tom

[Robert Rozaieski]

1/4" and 3/8" are the most useful. 1/2" would be used for wider stock like dining table legs. Remember that the chisel size is determined by the mortise stock not the tenon stock. I only have 1/4 and 3/8 and have not yet had a need for 1/2". I'm looking for a 1/2" english mortise chisel for a future dining table project but this is not a common size and difficult to find on the used tool market, at least in the US (if anyone has one laying around they would like to part with ;).....). The most common sizes seen on the antique market are 1/4 and 3/8 which suggests that most mortises were in these sizes.

One thing to keep in mind is whether or not you believe in the practice of tool slaving. If so, you'll want to make sure that your mortise chisels, bench chisels and plow plane irons (when you eventually get a plow plane ;)) are all the same sizes, i.e. all english or all metric. If you plow a 1/4" groove in a door stile and then try to chop the mortise with a 8 mm mortise chisel you are going to have a hard time as the chisel is a little bigger than 1/4" and you'll have little support under the bevel to help keep your cutting straight. If you try to use a 6 mm, you could wander as it's a little smaller than 1/4" and won't help to guide you straight. If you use a 1/4" chisel (same size as plow iron), the sides of the plowed groove will help to guide the mortise chisel straight and true.

[Jon Toebbe]

Some of you may remember that I posted a question last week about C.I. Fall mortising chisels. No one seemed to have tried them, so I went ahead and ordered a set to be the guinea pig.
In that same thread I mentioned that I'm the guinea pig for the MHG mortise chisels sold by Hartville Tool. So far so good. The 1/4 inch chisel sharpened up nicely, and once I put a 35 degree secondary bevel on it it proved to be up to the task of chopping 1-1/4 deep mortises in dry red oak without breaking a sweat.

Another option, and available in imperial sizes...

[Pam Niedermayer]

I'm an advocate of buying one or two top quality chisels, probably new for your first ones, adding as you go along. I'm also an advocate of the trapezoidal shaped chisels (I think they make cleaner cuts) and of not paring mortises, chop them, clean out the bottom (with a different tool, btw), that's it. The huge square versions I've used tend to split softwood, have thus never tried them in hardwood.

To these ends, I set the mortising gauge to the widest part of the trapezoid, then mark mortise and tenon, chops to the marks and saw the tenon. I start chopping in the middle and work my way out.

I use laminated blades (Japanese mortising and English oval handled bolster mortising (ohbm) chisels). In Japanese chisels there are regular mortising plus various timber framing suitable atsu nomi, chutaki, etc. In western chisels, you may end up prefering firmer chisels.

Pam

[Derek Cohen]

Joe

If I were you I would start looking at eBay for English Bolstered (or Oval Bolstered) Mortice chisels. These can be had quite cheaply, especially if they need to be re-handled.

I have put together a bunch of decent ones over the years, mostly Wards, and re-handled just about all of them.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Chisels/OBMC1.jpg

Recently I bought a 1/4" Ray Iles from Joel at Tools for Working Wood. This is D2 steel and has an excellent repfor durability. I thought I would compare it with one of my 1/4" Wards. They cut the same, but I have yet to re-hone the RI, and it has hammered through some tough hardwoods.

The RI is in the centre:

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Chisels/RayIlesmorticechisel1.jpg

While I have a range of sizes, I could happily live with a 1/4 and 3/8".

There are others to choose from. Here is a "set" (purchased individually) of Ibbottsons I restored and re-handled (now gone to a new home):

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Chisels/Morticechiselrestoration1.jpg

Only the RI is expensive - about $70. The others cost about $10 each. Add in your own wood for handles, and shake, don't stirr.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Brian Kent]

These are amazing mortise chisels. I bought a set of 2 after breaking a 2 cherries chisel by prying too hard (It was a very narrow chisel not meant prying, and Two Cherries replaced it for free).

Right now I loaned them to another woodworker so he could try them out. I am not afraid of these monsters coming back with damage!

With all that said, I would love to hear more about the MHG and CI Falls as they get used on projects.

[Pedder Petersen]

I own a 6mm (ca. 1/4'') C.I. Fall Mortise Chisel, wich i bought in Eskilstuna, Sweden, from Anders Fall past summer.

It's quite rough, but I'm not sure if that's their standard quality, because they were out of stock when i was in Esikilstuna. I did not work a lot with it so i can't tell you much about resharpening ...

But i love the modern Auger bits i bought from Anders Fall. (They're cheap, too.)

Cheers Pedder

[Peter Tremblay]

I would love to hear more about the MHG and CI Falls as they get used on projects.

I had the MHG and the steel was not what I wanted, it chipped out badly with just chopping. It chipped out before I did any levering :(.
I found that with a round handle it was difficult starting the mortise square and plumb.

To make a long story short I sold them and I got the Ray Iles 1/4, 3/8, and 1/2" and they are wonderful. The oval handles helped fixed the problems that I had with starting the mortise square and plumb.

I highly recommend the RI's

Peter

[Jon Toebbe]

I had the MHG and the steel was not what I wanted, it chipped out badly with just chopping. It chipped out before I did any levering :(.
I had exactly the same problem at first. I sharpened them up and went to work. Chop, crumble, fold. :( Then someone pointed out that the primary bevel was ground at 25 degrees, way too fragile for chopping... :o I ground it back past the chipped edge, grumbling under my breath the whole time and put a 35 degree secondary bevel on it. Now it works like a charm! The 25 deg primary lets it dig deep into the wood when I whack it, and the 35 deg secondary keeps the edge in one piece when I pry out the chips. Maybe you got a bad one? I've read that MHG had some quality control issues when they were first imported into the US.

[Peter Tremblay]

I was thinking that I got a bad one because I exchanged them. Still the second set that I got had soft steel, for what I wanted. The secondary bevel worked in preventing large chips but they dulled way too fast for my taste.

Peter

[Bob Smalser]

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/5536778/70921478.jpg

I find large mortise chisels to be much faster. But you'll be forever finding a set like mine. I'd be looking for bolstered mortice chisels from Ward. Butcher, Sorby etc on eBay in 1/4, 3/8 and 1/2 or their metric equivalents. If you want new, I had the opportunity to use the Iles pigstickers and was favorably impressed.

[James Carmichael]

I was lucky enough to find a deal some of the last Record/Marples sash mortise chisels on Ebay. Some people scoff at Marples, but they work for me.

1/4" & 5/16" are all I've ever needed.

[John Michael]

After reading through this and another thread I decided to try the 1/4 and 3/8" Ray Isles pigstickers. Well they showed up today from TFWW and to my dismay both had corners nicked and blunted on the both bevels. Besides that bummer the chisels feel bulletproof and the ergonomics of the handle fits my liking very well. Can't wait to try them out

[Douglas Brummett]

Some of you may remember that I posted a question last week about C.I. Fall mortising chisels. No one seemed to have tried them, so I went ahead and ordered a set to be the guinea pig. The arrived Monday and I have to say I'm pretty impressed with them. The finish on them is not elegant, they haven't been polished and the handles are quite plain other than the brass ferrules, but I chopped a couple of mortises with them right away and they handle well. I can't speak to longevity on them and hope to report about that later. but if you're not doing a lot of mortising, at $70 for a set of three I don't see how you could go wrong. Here's where I found them... http://www.traditionalwoodworker.com...ath/39_172_471 (http://www.traditionalwoodworker.com/default.php/cPath/39_172_471)


Looks like the 3/8th took a dive on you from the e-bay sale of the set. Any observations other than the obvious (one broke)?

[Brian Kent]

I'm another big believer in getting one or two higher quality chisels instead of a big set of lower.

One way to make this strategy work is to buy and use a single 1/4" mortise chisel for the vast majority of your heavy chopping, then, if necessary, use your bevel-edge chisels to pare the mortise to final width. That is the route I am taking, anyway.

FWIW, I went with a hefty Ray Isles English Mortise Chisel (http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/Merchant/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=toolshop&Product_Code=MS-MORT.XX&Category_Code=TBMC).

These are fantastic. After a lot of research I gave it a try and… Oh Wow!

[Joe Cunningham]

I found a millwright chisel (after reading Bob Smalser's excellent FWW article), 1/4". It makes keeping the mortise square a lot easier than my shorter chisels, and levering out the waste is quick. I got it on that auction site, and it was listed as a firmer chisel. I think I paid $20 for it.

Bob also has a great thread here on SMC which I subscribed to (so I wouldn't lose it.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=13734

[Circa Bellum]

I had (as you might read in the thread above) purchased the C.I. Fall mortise chisels a year ago. They worked fine chopping the big honking mortises in my new work bench with the exception that I cracked one of the handles. I used them on several other projects and they were okay. Then I started finding pig sticker chisels and put together a set of four different sizes and they absolutely rule. I sold the Fall chisels on eBay and have not looked back.

[Jim Koepke]

My mortice chisels were bought on eBay. One is a James Cam and the other is a Newbould.

One is a 5/16 the other is a 3/8.

Both have been fitted with new handles. Due to my not having experience with putting handles on tang chisels, one of them split, but it is usable until it has to have another handle made. Both are great pieces of steel with close to 200 years of dings and patina.

My recollection is the pair cost me less than $40.

Sure, one can pay too high a price on eBay, but if one sticks to their price and exercises patience, good deals can be had.

Holding to my guns, bids were placed on at least a dozen individual chisels before this pair came along. As I recall, mine may have been the only bid. Maybe the others only wanted the Buck, Swan and Witherbys.

One caveat, many people will list almost any chisel as a mortise chisel. If you do not know what it is, don't bid on it.

jim

[David Keller NC]

"Holding to my guns, bids were placed on at least a dozen individual chisels before this pair came along. As I recall, mine may have been the only bid. Maybe the others only wanted the Buck, Swan and Witherbys."

There may be another reason. The chisels you have are, as you noted, quite old (as well as being collector's items - the James Cam was worth a lot more than $20, at least with the original handle). Mortise chisels that old are often of soft iron with a forge-welded piece of cast steel on the end. So long as the steel's intact (the chisel hasn't been sharpened to the point where it's worn away), the chisel's fine as long as it's not "bellied". But it's tough to tell from a photograph, and if the steel is gone, the chisel's next to worthless as a user. Swans, Witherbys and other newer makes were made after advances in manufacturing made steel cheap enough so that the whole chisel is cast steel, so they're still usable even if quite short.