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Michael Gibbons
01-24-2008, 8:05 AM
I was wondering what is the highest price you would pay for a pack of cigs before you say it's too high and quit smoking? $7, $10, $15?? Just wondering.

Jim King
01-24-2008, 8:30 AM
The highest price I paid was a heart attack and a couple of strokes.

Cliff Rohrabacher
01-24-2008, 9:01 AM
I quit when my first child was born.

The things I didn't know~!! I thought my body could "heal" from what nicotine did. I was one of those who thought that if you smoked young it was OK 'cause you'd heal.

Little did I know that I was merely giving cancer an early foothold. The oddest thing about nicotine is that it binds specifically to certain cellular components sending them a molecular signal that they should not die. This, in spite of doing those same cells such damage that normally they'd die off and get replaced. So cells that should be replaced don't die but they are damaged and that damage leads to mutations in cellular replication.

Because of the nicotine there are vastly greater number of cells that replicate and mutate. This one set of facts raises dramatically the chance that one of them mutations will "take" become viable, and be able to eat, and replicate. That is a cancer.


Interestingly only nicotine is known to do this. Marijuana does not. The smoke can harm or kill cells but, there is no inhibitor to the cellular death so when you hurt 'em bad enough they die and are replaced before they can mutate.

David G Baker
01-24-2008, 9:08 AM
I quit before I paid the price that Jim King paid but my asthma prescriptions are costing more than cigarettes currently cost. The price is still hanging over my head and will probably do so for as long as I live.

Greg Cole
01-24-2008, 9:10 AM
$0.00..... one of the parents smoked while I was a kid & I HATED IT. Eventually the 3 kids beat Mom into submission & got her to quit.:D
I'm amazed with the 3 guys I work with who do smoke and what the pay for them, or when they travel for work they bring cartons with them, cause the prices of a pack at the destination is "too much".

Cliff,
You are a fountain of information.... as always.

Greg

Jason Beam
01-24-2008, 11:51 AM
Before I quit (after 13 years) in 2004 (on valentines day), it was after several "when the price hits..." promises. I'd said when they go over $2 i'd drop 'em - that was in '96. Then I when cartons were over $30 I'd quit - that was in '01. Then I said when they're over $3 a pack they'd be out .. that was '02.

I finally quit, but it had nothing to do with money (addiction rarely does, by the way). This girl I'd come to fancy flat out said "I will not live with a smoker." And that started it for me.

For a few months after that proclaimation, I started focusing on all the crap I didn't like about smoking. I thoroughly enjoyed the act of smoking - love the sensation of inhaling the smoke - it was a great feeling. I knew I'd have to fight my mind, not the butt. I hated the taste left in my mouth after a cig. I hated that I had to go outside most of the time. I hated having to keep carrying the dang things (and a lighter) around with me - not enough pockets. But most of all, I hated being OUT of them. I hated what being out of cigs turned me into. That put me over the edge. I don't like being controlled like that, and I realized it was my own doing. I had to decide, to my CORE, that I flat out DON'T do that anymore.

Once that psycology was in place, I asked my doctor for the pill and two weeks later I threw away the last half pack I had left and haven't looked back since. Every urge that came along was answered with "That's not who I am." It was WAY easier than I thought it would be. I'd made my mind up, TO THE CORE. Comin up on 4 years now!

Don't try to apply logic to a smoker's habit. There isn't any. No matter what you tell them, it won't help. People flat out need to make up their minds, through and through, that they're not smoking anymore. It's rarely about money. And it's very rarely about the possibility of health issues, sometimes not even the REALITY of health issues.


EDIT: Oh, and that girl I'd liked back in '04 - we celebrated our 1st wedding anniversary on the 3rd of this month. :D

Jim O'Dell
01-24-2008, 1:00 PM
I'm like Greg. My Dad smoked up until I was 5 years old and quit when he was paying 35 cents a pack because of the price! And he ws shipping them in across state lines to get that price, by the case. He and one of his emploees smoked the same thing and would split a case. Dad was smoking 4 packs a day at that time, quit cold turkey. He's 78 now, and no problems with his lungs. Jim.

Steven Wilson
01-24-2008, 1:03 PM
Paying it now, one heart attack, two stents, one EP study and some other things. I gave up when my kids were born. Sure don't want them to emulate daddy by smoking. Hopefully I'll live long enough to see them grow up.

Paul Brinkmeyer
01-24-2008, 1:34 PM
It was the burns from the "paddles" when they brought me back that did me in. Hurt for 3 months.

Steven Wilson
01-24-2008, 2:55 PM
Paul, aren't those "paddles" fun? I had a little "Afib" episode while fly fishing and had to get myself to an emergency room an hour away (fun climbing up a hill when your heart isn't pumping too effectively). Anyhow, they stabilized me with some drugs and let me go (still in "afib") so that I could drive the 8 hours back home. Next day I check into the Emergency room (they were expecting me) they send me up to the Cardiac Critical Care Unit and my doc comes by to give me the "shock". They setup the paddles, and then the doc wrapped his hands in towels and pressed down hard on my chest when he did the shock. Doing so keeps the burning down and you only have some muscle soreness for a few days.

Bruce Page
01-24-2008, 3:01 PM
The wife & I quite one year and two weeks ago:D:D. I figure we have saved about $2800.00 so far.

Paul Brinkmeyer
01-24-2008, 3:17 PM
When my attack came, I knew what it was right away, so I had a couple of cig's before I let my wife know. And I had another on the way to ER. I KNEW they would make me quit smoking. I was on the table when I "left". almost exactly 60 min after it started. It was a nurse who paddled me. She stopped by and apologized for the burns, guess they were in a hurry so no prep time for this, thus the burns. Never smoked after that.

Roy Hatch
01-24-2008, 4:15 PM
Bumper Sticker:

Have a Heart Attack - Quit Smoking

A doctor explained to me that only 10% of smokers will die of lung cancer. It's because there are other consequences of smoking that will get you first.:)

In Korea, cigarettes were included in our rations and if that wasn't enough, the PX (when there was one) sold them for $1 a carton. I quit anyway.

Tim Morton
01-24-2008, 6:35 PM
when my father had his heart attack and we had to rush him to the hospital ...i remember what I thought was him struggling to get into the car....in fact he was struggling to get a pack out of his coat pocket....the man could not walk or talk....but he still wanted a cigarette... and my mom after being diagnosed a few years later with lung cancer still had problems quitting.:(:(

Bruce Page
01-24-2008, 7:16 PM
when my father had his heart attack and we had to rush him to the hospital ...i remember what I thought was him struggling to get into the car....in fact he was struggling to get a pack out of his coat pocket....the man could not walk or talk....but he still wanted a cigarette... and my mom after being diagnosed a few years later with lung cancer still had problems quitting.:(:(

Quitting was one of the hardest things that I have ever done. They say it's harder than quitting heroin.
And here's the rub; if a doctor told me "Bruce, you were tool late, you only have 6 months to live" I'd probably buy a pack on the way home...:rolleyes:

Gary Keedwell
01-24-2008, 7:30 PM
LOML and I quit together in 1984. She was a 1packer and I was at least a 2-packer. I think what kept me off was taking up jogging. I would walk and jog but mostly walk at first. Took a couple of weeks to get my 1st mile without walking. Exercise is the key...IMNSHO
Gary

Ken Fitzgerald
01-24-2008, 8:26 PM
Quitting was one of the hardest things that I have ever done. They say it's harder than quitting heroin.
And here's the rub; if a doctor told me "Bruce, you were tool late, you only have 6 months to live" I'd probably buy a pack on the way home...:rolleyes:

And after being off them for 24 months and 10 days.....I'd hold you up for that pack.....:D

Dave Dionne
01-24-2008, 8:40 PM
I quit 7 years ago, smoked 2-1/2 packs a day for 20 + years and went cold turkey, tried everything before that and for me they didn't work. My wife still struggles with them.

I have been sober for 19 years, gave up some other serious substances before that.

Smoking I think was far harder in the beginning stages, and after 7 years there are still times when a smoke would just feel right.

Those feelings don't last long now them come and go real quick.

Good luck to all that have quit or are trying it is worth it.

Jeff Cybulski
01-25-2008, 8:18 PM
Well I'm still smoking about a pack a day @ $3.70 a pack. I said I would quit when it hit $2.50 but that I guess that didn't work. I lost 50lbs. in 2007 and now it's time to quit the cigs.
I'm thinking of trying Chantrix or maybe hypnosis this time. I've done the cold turkey route, tried the patches, and gums.

Time to try again........Monday ( in-laws here this weekend)

I'm callin the doc to make a appt. and will try the Chantrix first. Insurance doesn't cover but the cost is about the same as the smokes - funny how their marketing folks figured that out.

Jeff - who's on his last 3 packs of Marlboro Ultra Lights 100's

Bruce Page
01-25-2008, 8:30 PM
Jeff, you can do it. It ain't easy but it's doable.
Just remember, itís all attitude Ė you have to want it.
Good luck

Von Bickley
01-25-2008, 8:37 PM
The highest price I paid was a heart attack and a couple of strokes.

I haven't had any strokes.....

November 1996 - Heart Attack with angioplasty
March 2005 - By-Pass Surgery
October 2006 - Implanted Defibrillator with pacemaker

Have paid a lot for smoking.... Quit cold turkey - November 1996.

Glenn Clabo
01-26-2008, 6:59 AM
Jeff,
Four people I work with tried it...and it worked for 3. The other one who gave up and started smoking again...barely made it through a heart attack 2 weeks ago. He is now smoke free.

Ken Fitzgerald
01-26-2008, 10:21 AM
Jeff,

Try the Chantrix...........try anything. I know folks who've used Chantrix successfully.

I used the gum and it's been 24 months and 12 days. I gained 40 lbs. BUT....I bumped into a cardiologist one night while working in a local medical center. "Ken you've put on some weight"...."Yeah, I quit smoking"....."How much did you smoke?"......." pack and half a day for 41 years"......."You could afford to put on 90 lbs before you'll have the same effect on your heart as that pack and a half a day".......

It's not easy Jeff....but when you are ready.....you can do it! Most days I walk by people outside smoking and I think "Boy that stinks!".....once in a blue moon I"ll walk by....smell it and think "I'd kill for one".........I have not killed for one yet....

Good luck!

Steveo O'Banion
01-26-2008, 12:58 PM
I was a 17 YO and walked into my dads hospital room in '77 just in time to see him get hit with the paddles. My jaw hit the floor and my eyes popped out of my head, nothing had ever prepared me for something like that. The nurse then looked at me and yelled "GET OUT".:eek:

I skeedaddled!

He died that night, all of 44 years old and a former smoker. Between him and watching my grandfather cough his lungs up for 9 months in '68, I never had an interest in cigs after that.

On a happier note, my mother-in-law quit cold turkey when she developed COPD about 14 years ago. She shocked the hell out of us all, we didn't think she had it in her.

Steve


It was the burns from the "paddles" when they brought me back that did me in. Hurt for 3 months.

Jerry Clark
01-28-2008, 12:04 AM
I quit about 30 years ago-- got pneumonia and was pretty sick-- went to the doctor-- all kinds of people in the waiting room--SMOKING! :eek: I had to wait outside. Strange now to even think people would smoke in public buildings. I believe banning smoking in public building has helped some people stop smoking.:D

Rich Engelhardt
01-28-2008, 6:59 AM
Hello,

I was wondering what is the highest price you would pay for a pack of cigs before you say it's too high and quit smoking?

$4.00.
Currently, they are ~$2.80 a pack.

Naturally, as a smoker, and as one who's "ox is being gored", I have rather strong opinions where the morailty of controllng people/society is directed at their wallet.

I "sat quietly" on the sidelines when these tactics were applied towards owners of "gas guzzlers", because I felt it didn't apply to me personally.
Now that it's hitting me, I'm natrurally upset about it.

Today's it cigarettes.
Ten/twenty/fifty years, who knows?
There could quite easily be a thread titled:
"How much would you pay for French Fries, before you call it quits on fatty food?"

Mike Null
01-28-2008, 7:37 AM
I forget whether it was Lincoln or Twain but one said "quitting was easy, I've done it a dozen times."

I remember being in the Naval Hosp. at San Diego and they gave them out free. That was 50 years ago. I remember putting a quarter in a cig. machine and getting the pack with 2 pennies in it and a pack of matches.

After a little more than 25 years of 2 packs a day I quit cold and haven't smoked since. That was 27 years ago. I've only added 40 lbs.

The thing that caused me to fail was the anxiety connected with not having any cigarettes. I solved that by carrying a pack with me for several months but I had masking tape across the top of it.

Michael Gibbons
01-28-2008, 8:21 AM
What caused everyone that posted so far to start in the first place? Peer pressure? Did it look cool? Did it smell great to you? Luckily, I didn't start even though half of my family did. Since there is a war over banning smoking in public places here in Michigan , I was wondering if raising taxes to an insane level would help in that fight. Lets say $15 a pack. Some guy who was a restaurant/foodservice owner wrote to the local paper and said that he would lose business. Then he stated a question " If some super obese guy comes in and orders A double cheeseburger, large chili chese fries with onions, 2 large cokes, chocolate shake and banana split should I serve him because it's bad for him? And I figured sure, because all that fat, cholesterol, salt and sugar isn't floating through the air and depositing in my body. If I go to a restuarant, I'm there to smell the garlic bread, the pasta, the steak. Not somebodys crap stick their smoking.

Glenn Clabo
01-28-2008, 8:37 AM
Some guy who was a restaurant/foodservice owner wrote to the local paper and said that he would lose business.
If I go to a restuarant, I'm there to smell the garlic bread, the pasta, the steak. Not somebodys crap stick their smoking.

Smoking is banned in restaurants/bars here in RI and we are thrilled. Before it was banned we never went to one that allowed smoking.

Now...before it was banned there was a huge fight with many owners saying the same as that guy you are talking about. They simply didn't reallize that people likeus weren't going to their places. Now here's the facts...a study done after a year or two proved that their business actually improved! Some of the same people who fought the loudest actually had to say...they were wrong.

Glenn Clabo
01-28-2008, 8:43 AM
Interesting read...
http://books.google.com/books?id=J4iAu7IVvE4C&dq=the+price+of+smoking&pg=PP1&ots=Ifv9UNlK5N&sig=hT5Vlj8_RabvFoODKGH-LtEvz18&hl=en&prev=http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rls=GGLD,GGLD:2003-33,GGLD:en&q=the+price+of+smoking&sa=X&oi=print&ct=title&cad=one-book-with-thumbnail#PPP1,M1

mark page
01-28-2008, 11:00 AM
I am six weeks into taking the Chantix. I can say that it really does work. Although Chantix alone is not going to do it for you. It took about a month for it to start working, and I have not had a pure nicotine fit since. What you have to fight is the automatic urge to grab a cig from the "habit" and not the addiction side of things. Chantix does present itself a few side-effects on me--weird dreams, nausea after taking especially on an empty stomach, which lasts for about an hour, although not extreme, some hot & cold flashes when sleeping, etc. But I can live with these if they help me quit. So far I have went from about 2 1/2 packs a day to 5 or 6 cigs a day, and most of those have been because my LOML has them laying around and I auto reach for one from habit. Then after I light one, I ask myself why I did it, cause I really didn't have a nicotine fit.
Hope this helps someone.

Randy Denby
01-28-2008, 11:09 AM
Hello,


$4.00.
Currently, they are ~$2.80 a pack.

Naturally, as a smoker, and as one who's "ox is being gored", I have rather strong opinions where the morailty of controllng people/society is directed at their wallet.

I "sat quietly" on the sidelines when these tactics were applied towards owners of "gas guzzlers", because I felt it didn't apply to me personally.
Now that it's hitting me, I'm natrurally upset about it.

Today's it cigarettes.
Ten/twenty/fifty years, who knows?
There could quite easily be a thread titled:
"How much would you pay for French Fries, before you call it quits on fatty food?"

Rich...you almost nailed it. But I think a better analogy , instead of "french fries", would be....doubling the cost of medical insurance for woodworkers, since they are in jeopardy of amputations, etc. Or taxing people for being overweight, etc........Now where will it end? Thats a slippery slope. So, go ahead and beat up on the socially outcast smokers...it could hit in your neighborhood soon

David G Baker
01-28-2008, 1:23 PM
While I was smoking I had no idea of how I was offending the people around me. Now, after not smoking for 20 some years, I can't be in a room where there is cigarette smoke with out having breathing problems. If I am in a situation where I can not avoid contact with smoke I try to get away from it as much and as soon as possible. When I get home I have to remove my clothing and put the smoky clothing in the washing machine.
We have friends that will not visit us because the LOML and I have asthma problems and can not have smoking in our home.

Chris Padilla
01-28-2008, 2:58 PM
I think I smoked a whole pack of cigarettes in a 1 week stint my junior year in high school. Dunno why I did it but that was it for me. :D

Parents never smoked although I understand Dad did before I was born.

Rich Engelhardt
01-28-2008, 7:10 PM
Hello Michael,

What caused everyone that posted so far to start in the first place? Peer pressure? Did it look cool? Did it smell great to you?

Fair questions. I'll give you a fair and honest answer.

I started smoking simply because I wanted to.
I enjoyed it, so I kept on doing it.
No "peer" pressure, no because it "looked cool".


Since there is a war over banning smoking in public places here in Michigan , I was wondering if raising taxes to an insane level would help in that fight. Lets say $15 a pack. Some guy who was a restaurant/foodservice owner wrote to the local paper and said that he would lose business.
As there was here in Ohio.
Smoking was banned by the state in all indoor places.

It had and has zero to do with anything pertaining to what "customers" prefer BTW. The law went into effect, pushed by the state to *protect* workers. A few have mentioned how "thankful" they are that restaurants are smoke free. Here in Ohio, the law was not for their benefit.

Yes - bars have "gone under" here, as have several Bingo halls.
Again - here in Ohio, the law was passed for the sake of paid employees, not for the sake of patrons. All the staff, except for one important person, at the Bingo halls are unpaid volunteers. The sole exception? The off duty cop that moonlights as security.
The halls could - go smoke free - and stand to lose money due to low turn outs, not have security and again, lose patrons, or close. Quite a few closed.
Pity, becuse for a few hundred seniors, that weekly trip to Bingo pretty much summed up their whole social life.

Raise the price to an insane level?
Canada (Ontario) tried that ~ 20 years ago. Cigarettes jumped from $1.00 a pack to $5.00 a pack. Fortunatly, they didn't spend the anticipated increased revenue before they got it. Legal sales dried up. Tax revenue plunged to almost zilch as sales went to the black market that sprung up overnight.

The Volstead act (Prohibition) was similar in nature - and we all know what a rousing success that was!
No - raising the level to an insane one would simply create a huge black market - and organized crime would probably jump all over that opportunity.

Then there's also the little matter of the anticipated revenue the $15.00 a pack tax would bring. When that didn't materialize, or if it actually did deter huge numbers of smokers - who's going to pick up the tab when the $4 stops coming in?

There's actually a precedent for that. California 10 years ago. When they found out their "share" of the tobacco settlement, they rushed out and spent $400 million they didn't have on hiway improvments. Now, 10 years later, without ever seeing a penny of their "share", those roads need repairs all over again.

Randy,

But I think a better analogy , instead of "french fries", would be....doubling the cost of medical insurance for woodworkers,
Or maybe the taxing wood due to the airborn dust particles?
IIRC, Keith mentioned his doctor told him that the years of woodworking had done as much damage as the years of smoking.
Like you say - when it hits close to home.
Three or four thousand dollars for a sheet of Cherry ply anyone?

Brian Elfert
01-28-2008, 7:49 PM
I guess I'll never understand why bars, bingo halls, and other places lose so many customers when laws require they go smoke free.

I rarely ever go to a bar, but my understanding is folks go to these places to socialize. When smoking is outlawed in an entire state do these folks sit at home as no public establishments allow smoking except indian casinos?

Rich Engelhardt
01-29-2008, 5:16 AM
Hello Bryan,

I guess I'll never understand why bars, bingo halls, and other places lose so many customers
It's not that they lose customers per say.
It's the type of customer they lose.
Smokers are, genrally speaking, "high profit" patrons.

Bars make their profits on the sales of beer, wine and spirits.
There's little profit in food and an "endless" supply of soft drinks.

That "third draft light" I used to have at Applebees as I enjoyed my meal and after dinner cigarette is gone now to them (Applebees).

Anyhow - to be perfectly fair and honest, the smoking ban (here in Ohio) did have a significant impact on the bars, etc. They also got hit on two other fronts at the same time - raise in min. wage & soaring gas prices.

OTOH - the raise in min wage and gas prices have happened before - and the doors of a lot of places stayed open.

Michael Gibbons
01-29-2008, 7:44 AM
Rich, I asked a co-worker who used to be a produce buyer for a local food chain when they passed the law making it illegal to smoke in grocery stores and he said it was the early eighties. They said it was to keep food from being contaminated. If they did it for grocery stores where food was at, I wonder why they didn't do it for reaturants where food was at? Twisted logic I suppose. In Michigan, we have the chicken little syndrome. When the Michigan DNR decided the hunters could hunt out of treestands with firearms , folks made it sound like people were going to get shot in the next county. Didn't happen. About the same amount of accidents were reported; some bafoon shoots himself in the foot, another one falls out of treestand because he didn't strap himself in or the other guy who keels over dead from a heart attack because this is the only exercise he's had all year. Next up was the CCW permits that residents could get. GOOD LORD. It's going to be the next O.K. Corral. Gunfights would ensue over parking spaces or dirty looks. Didn't happen. The latest was the raising of the speed limit from 65 to 70. California highway pile-ups were right around the corner. Didn't happen. Traffic started moving more smoothly aside from the few schmucks who aren't paying attention becuase they are either on the phone, eating, putting on make-up, or reading. All states should pass the "no-smoking in public places" law and we'll just get used to it. Besides, it funny to see smokers outside when it's -10, shivering and stomping their feet. Times change.

Michael Gibbons
01-29-2008, 8:00 AM
I guess I'll never understand why bars, bingo halls, and other places lose so many customers when laws require they go smoke free.

I rarely ever go to a bar, but my understanding is folks go to these places to socialize. When smoking is outlawed in an entire state do these folks sit at home as no public establishments allow smoking except indian casinos? They should have outdoor bingo halls. Hey,If they want to make certain places that you could smoke at like cigar bars, casinos, adult entertainment venues and such, thats fine. I'm sure most responsible people won't take their children to such places nor would the establishments want them there. Someone elses twisted logic states that if you have go to a bar, it just natural to smoke while your there drinking. Since when? I looked everywhere and can find no such proof.

Justin Leiwig
01-29-2008, 8:01 AM
Hello Bryan,

It's not that they lose customers per say.
It's the type of customer they lose.
Smokers are, genrally speaking, "high profit" patrons.

Bars make their profits on the sales of beer, wine and spirits.
There's little profit in food and an "endless" supply of soft drinks.

That "third draft light" I used to have at Applebees as I enjoyed my meal and after dinner cigarette is gone now to them (Applebees).

Anyhow - to be perfectly fair and honest, the smoking ban (here in Ohio) did have a significant impact on the bars, etc. They also got hit on two other fronts at the same time - raise in min. wage & soaring gas prices.

OTOH - the raise in min wage and gas prices have happened before - and the doors of a lot of places stayed open.

I guess things are different in the nothern part of the state because down here everyone is loving the no smoking ban. I've been to bars, restaurants, comedy clubs and a bingo hall for the first time in my life since the ban. I even joined the FOE, and I would have never considered it pre-smoking ban. I am allergic to cigarette smoke and would actually get physically ill if around it for any measurable amount of time.

I spoke with a local bar/grille owner about the smoking ban. He was one of our area's most vocal opponents. Said that it would kill his business because he couldn't have "cigar" nights. Well instead of those "cigar" nights, they now have a wine tasting night. Brings in twice the money that cigar night did with all the high-brow foodies, he also now can employ a wider range of people who before wouldn't work in a bar setting due the cigarette smoke, and many other reasons. All in all around here not one single business has gone under due to the new laws, and many are profiting much more than they were when they allowed smoking. I can't believe things would be that much different to the north, but I guess they are. :D

Glenn Clabo
01-29-2008, 8:05 AM
Anyhow - to be perfectly fair and honest, the smoking ban (here in Ohio) did have a significant impact on the bars, etc.
Toledo, Ohio: A study by researchers at the University of Toledo and the Hospital Council of Northwest Ohio shows that the clean indoor air ordinance in Toledo has not negatively impacted businesses in those cities.

Glenn Clabo
01-29-2008, 8:10 AM
I guess I'll never understand why bars, bingo halls, and other places lose so many customers when laws require they go smoke free.

They don't...

Florida: A year after Florida instituted a clean indoor air law that covered restaurants, sales were up more than seven percent.
El Paso, Texas: Though opponents had predicted that a clean indoor air ordinance would hurt businesses and that customers would go to bordering communities, one year after implementation of a law that covered bars, restaurants and workplaces, there were no changes in bar and restaurant revenues. The study examined both sales tax and mixed beverage tax data.
New York City: Though opponents predicted economic doom for New York City (NYC) bars and restaurants, with patrons fleeing to neighboring communities, the Smoke-Free Air Act that established smoke-free workplaces (implemented on March 30, 2003) has been good for NYC and its businesses. A report released on the one-year anniversary of the law shows: The law did not negatively impact restaurants and bars in NYC. Business tax receipts from bars and restaurants were up 8.7% over the previous year when the ordinance was not in affect. Employment in bars and restaurants increased. From March 2003 to December 2003, the number of people working in NYC bars and restaurants increased by approximately 10,600 or about 2,800 seasonally adjusted jobs. In 2003, there was an average of 164,000 workers employed in the restaurant and bar industry—the highest number recorded in at least a decade. In 2003, the number of bar and restaurant openings and closings were nearly the same—an improvement over 2002, when there were 280 more closings than openings.

California: Paul McIntyre, former public affairs representative for the California Restaurant Association, who had argued that clean indoor air legislation would economically doom restaurants and bars in California, stated, "My concerns about the success of the smoke-free law, however, quickly vanished soon after it was enacted. While there was an adjustment period—for restaurants it was four to six weeks, and for bars a little longer, the public still accepted it. California was in the depths of the greatest recession since World War II, but restaurant sales did not slump as the tobacco industry threatened they would. Rather, they continued to climb at rates of four to eleven percent annually. No jobs were lost. Tourists continued to come to California from all over the world. Even when the bar portion kicked in in 1998, liquor sales continued growing in restaurants and bars without interruption."
Ireland: The Restaurant Association of Ireland stated that its members did not suffer a reduction in business after a smoke-free law was passed in Ireland.
Bingo and Gaming Profits Unharmed: Studies of state licensed bingo and other charitable gaming from 220 towns and cities in Massachusetts showed that bingo profits are unaffected by clean indoor air laws.
Fort Wayne, IN: Conservative Hudson Institute Fellow William Styring investigated the impact of a 1998 smoking ban on restaurant revenues in Fort Wayne. Sales tax data was collected between 1987 (twelve years before the ordinance was enacted) and 2000 (two years after the ordinance was enacted). No statistically significant variation in revenues was found.
Restaurants Increase in Value Under Smoke-Free Laws: According to a study in the journal Contemporary Economic Policy, the purchase price of a restaurant increases an average of 16 percent after the passage of a smoke-free law.
Massachusetts: A systematic statewide comparison of 239 communities in Massachusetts revealed that local smoke-free ordinances do not harm businesses. Taxable meals receipts data was collected for over 1,000 restaurants between 1992 and 1999. Contrary to restaurateur predictions, researchers found that restaurant sales in towns with strong smoking restrictions experienced a slightly faster rate of growth than restaurant sales in towns without such restrictions. Even restaurants located in communities that bordered towns without these restrictions saw no negative impact.
Tempe, Arizona: Tempe bars and restaurants have not been negatively impacted by their clean indoor air ordinance. Mayor Neil Giuliano stated that Tempe establishments have done better than most businesses in Arizona’s economic downturn.
Texas: Clean indoor air ordinances were passed in Arlington, Austin, Plano, and Wichita Falls between July 1994 and March 1996. Researchers evaluated the effect of these ordinances on restaurant sales using restaurant and retail tax data. Despite variations in the municipalities' geographic, demographic, and economic composition, no detrimental effect on restaurant sales was found to have resulted from the ordinances in any of the four cities studied.
Boulder, Colorado: Sales tax revenues continued to grow in Boulder after the passage of the smoke-free restaurant ordinance in 1995. Revenues from January through October of 1997 were up 3.14%, 1998 revenues were up 4.83%, and 1999 revenues were up 4.31%. The Boulder city finance department referred to the 1999 restaurant sales as a positive "strength."
Dane County, Wisconsin: In 1992, the city of Madison and several surrounding towns in Dane County passed smoke-free restaurant ordinances. A report on the impact of these laws found that between 1992 and 1997, per capita restaurant expenditures rose at a higher rate within the county than in the rest of the state. Meanwhile, employment in restaurants grew faster than in any other Madison industry.
Corvallis, Oregon: A July 1998 smoking ban in Corvallis bars did not harm business, concluded a study conducted by the Pacific Research Institute in Eugene. Sales data was collected from September 1997 through September 1999 and compared to data collected in nearby communities where similar smoke-free laws were not in place.
Chapel Hill, NC: Researchers at UNC-Chapel Hill examined restaurant sales data between 1990 and 1997 in ten counties; five with comprehensive smoking ordinances and five similarly situated counties with weak or no smoking ordinances. No differences were found in restaurant sales between the two groups.
California and Colorado: In a follow-up to a landmark 1994 study, University of California researchers found that 100% smoke-free restaurant and bar ordinances do not adversely impact revenues. Researchers analyzed sales tax data, comparing restaurant sales in 15 cities to total retail sales in the same cities, and restaurant sales in 15 comparison cities. The researchers also examined five cities and two counties with smoke-free bar ordinances.
The Tobacco Industry Admits There Is No Economic Impact: An internal, previously secret document, released as part of the Master Settlement Agreement between the tobacco industry and the states, shows that even the tobacco industry recognizes that clean indoor air legislation does not affect business. One Philip Morris document states that "the economic arguments often used by the industry to scare off smoking ban activity were no longer working, if indeed they ever did. These arguments simply had no credibility with the public, which isn’t surprising when you consider that our dire predictions rarely came true."
Carefully Consider Claims of Business Closures: When restaurants and bars go out of business, opponents at times point to them as proof that clean indoor air laws harm businesses. However, as studies have shown, it is the nature of hospitality businesses to fail often. A study of restaurants in Columbus, Ohio, showed that over a three-year period, 57 to 61 percent of restaurants failed.20 A Cornell University and Michigan State University study showed that over the course of 10 years, 70% of all restaurants close.

Ken Fitzgerald
01-29-2008, 9:37 AM
I guess it just bothers me that it's so popular to attack smokers in public.....

Now the new subject is obesity.......hope you like tofu, sprouts and granola.....Goodbye tasty Italian food..German food...French food...Southern cooking...hamburgers.....


Frankly, I think they ought to outlaw nagging....it is shown to raise blood pressure....cause strokes and heart attacks......this in turn causes a raise in the cost of health care....Guy dies of a heart attack, his wife and kids have to go on well-fare....there goes the economy.....his loss of income by dying and his family's drawing from the local well-fare purse. And there is those gas sucking vehicles....put's smog in the air......burns a limited resource like oil products....and those drivers out there driving 90 miles an hour while under the influence. We should outlaw driving...everyone walk to work....move your products to market in a horse drawn wagon. Cleaner...better for environment.....I'll bet I can pay for a study that will show it's better for the economy to do so.....Then we outlaw the making of steel...smelting puts smoke and smog in the air.....so we go back to using stone for our materials....don't need saw blades anyway.....


I just don't like the new attack dog group attacks that have become so popular to use in public. The fervent attacks never swayed me when I was a smoker just made me angry.....which raised my blood pressure...oh well.... I quit when I was ready.

Smokers are people too.......I know I used to be one.

Back off!

Chris Padilla
01-29-2008, 10:37 AM
I think everyone should BIKE to work...quite healthy for you! ;)

Bruce Page
01-29-2008, 11:48 AM
I think everyone should BIKE to work...quite healthy for you! ;)
I think we should turn that into a law and shoot all violators.
We would have cleaner air, less congestion in our cities, healthier populace, (less populace too). Whatís not to like about that!
:D

James Stokes
01-29-2008, 2:12 PM
I had a Drs appointment yesterday, While I was there I got her to give me a prescription for the Chantix. I had planned to try it untill I found out the price. $11.00 per pill twice a day. I thought it was a little to expensive for me.

Dennis Peacock
01-29-2008, 3:27 PM
One thing I have to say:

Tobacco Free for 100+ days now.!!!!!

And I'm liking it a LOT!!!! I'm free and it feels GOOD!!!! :D

Steven Wilson
01-29-2008, 5:47 PM
Congrats on 100 days tobacco free Dennis. It gets easier as time goes by.

Rich Engelhardt
01-29-2008, 6:39 PM
Hello,
Well - since this thread has basically gone to one where I'm the sole poster to answer the OP "At what point/how much" - I'm going to bow out.
Question asked and answered.

Richard M. Wolfe
01-29-2008, 8:17 PM
Well, I'm going to add a post, but not commenting on the price. I think that's pretty much been answered....cost isn't the factor.

I quit smoking in.....I have no idea. People will say "It's been 86 days and....." and can practically give it down to the minute. I would just have to guess what year it was. The object wasn't to quit for a certain period of time. It was to just.....quit.

'Scuse me if I'm beating a dead horse, and oh yeah, coffee will never taste as good as it once did

Michael Gibbons
01-30-2008, 1:50 AM
and oh yeah, coffee will never taste as good as it once did And I was under the impression that everything tasted better AFTER you stopped smoking-that's why people gain weight, 'cause your taste buds are alive again.

David G Baker
01-30-2008, 10:33 AM
After I quit everything tasted so good that I gained 40 pounds in 4 months. Took me more than a year to get rid of the weight.
The main thing that went away with quiting smoking was the frequent illnesses. I would have 5 or 6 major colds every year, that dropped down to one or two at most. One other thing, I could climb the three steps to my porch with out getting so winded that it would take me 20 minutes to recover.
Coffee still tastes as nasty as it always did but still love it. Gotta have that morning fix.

Art Mulder
01-30-2008, 11:01 AM
While I was smoking I had no idea of how I was offending the people around me. Now, after not smoking for 20 some years, I can't be in a room where there is cigarette smoke with out having breathing problems. (emphasis added)


Exactly.

I remember when my Uncle quit smoking. He told the story of how about 6-8 months after he quit, winter time came around and he pulled his coats/sweaters out of storage... and he was shocked at how they stank of smoke. He had not been able to smell it before.

I walk down the sidewalk, and 20 ft ahead of me there is someone walking and smoking, and I get to "enjoy" their second hand smoke.

Where I used to work there was this very nice secretary who smoked, and on rare occasions she would stop by my office to tell me something just after she had come inside from a smoke break. I would respond politely, but then I would have to leave the room for 10 minutes, as the smell of smoke was now hanging in my office, brought in with her. (and my office was a good 50-70 meters from the outdoor entrance.)

I remember years ago riding the city bus. It pulls up to a bus stop, and someone there is smoking. They take a last drag on their cigarette, stomp it out, and climb on the bus dragging a cloud of smoke with them, and my eyes start to water, and I'm praying that they take a seat as far from me as physically possible.

...art

Michael Gibbons
01-30-2008, 12:46 PM
When I'm driving with my window down, I can smell smoke from a car that was in that spot previously,say,a 1/4 mile ahead.

Jason Christenson
02-04-2008, 5:30 PM
I smoke two or three cigars a week, four or five if I'm lucky. I wouldn't quit if you paid me.

Jason

Roy Hatch
02-05-2008, 10:37 AM
I had a Drs appointment yesterday, While I was there I got her to give me a prescription for the Chantix. I had planned to try it untill I found out the price. $11.00 per pill twice a day. I thought it was a little to expensive for me.

I've heard so many horror stories about prescription drugs and their cost, the above caught my eye. Base on that cost, it would be $660 per month! A Google search indicates that the cost might be a lot less, so I hope that anyone considering Chantix looks into the actual cost. It pays to shop!

Roy

Glenn Clabo
02-05-2008, 11:07 AM
OK folks...this has wandered from the OPs original question and has become personal. It is now closed and subject to deletion.