table sawless shop

[Paul B. Cresti]

Just curious here...how many of you guys have gone to a guided saw system shop and no longer have a table saw? I am going to be blunt here...I DO NOT WANT TO HEAR ABOUT WHAT GUIDED SAW SYSTEM YOU OWN just if it is your saw.

Next question: If you only have a Guided saw system do you use other means to rip/crosscut soild stock (bandsaw, miter saw, etc....) ?

Next question: Any regrets in making the change? Advantages? Drawbacks?

Now for you guys that do not know me I have owned a lot of machinery (contractor saws, cabinets saws, european sliders, guided saw system), and have done/do this professionally. My questions are from the actual use of a guided saw shop with no other cabinet saw or european slider in use in your shop. I have had both but have never only a guided saw system.

[James K Peterson]

Just curious here...how many of you guys have gone to a guided saw system shop and no longer have a table saw?
[snip]
Next question: If you only have a Guided saw system do you use other means to rip/crosscut soild stock (bandsaw, miter saw, etc....) ?
Next question: Any regrets in making the change? Advantages? Drawbacks?
[snip]

I only have the guided saw. I sold my table saw off.

BUT

(Here's where I think you have to have more information from the people who respond)

I am a hobby woodworker. And I don't do many projects, most of the stuff I work with I can rip/resaw with the bandsaw (borrowing one, but I intend to buy eventually). I also use a miter saw, jointer (6"), lunch box planer, and many routers :D I don't regret dropping the tablesaw, but I normally only used it for sheet goods and ripping boards.


If I did this for a living? I'd base it on what operations I had to perform the most and the speed and ease I can do it with the different systems.

[Dave Cohen]

How could a guided saw system replace a table saw for ripping hardwood boards ? Seems like it would be kinda awkward, and with band saw drift etc. it seems like it would be harder to get a nice parallel edge after jointing the other edge...Just my thoughts, never used a guided saw system.

[Randy Klein]

I use the guided circ saw for sheet goods. For hardwoods, I use my bandsaw for ripping (no problem getting a parallel edge) and handsaws for crosscutting. I have no tablesaw and have no intention on getting one. But I'm also more of a hand tool guy, so, that may be one of the reasons.

[Robert Waddell]

I do this professionally and I don't understand why anyone would want to do without a tablesaw in a pro shop. It seems set-up time on the guided saws would take more time and effort. Heck, I've got two tablesaws in my one man shop. One is set-up to do nothing but crosscuts to keep from loosing time changing blades. With that said, I am entertaining the thought of building my own stationary bridge/panel cutter using a guided circular saw but not as a replacement for my other saws. This would be used to break sheet goods and crosscut butcher block counter tops since I don't have a panel saw. I just can't imagine making finish cuts for furniture on a guided saw, bandsaw and router. Paul if you do go this route, I'd be interested in feed back after you've done it for awhile.
Rob

[Mike Goetzke]

Paul - I'm just a serious hobbyist, but, I recently bought a circular saw guide system for sheet goods to compliment my TS. Once I set up the guide system I used it exclusively to make an aquarium canopy for my son. This project included crosscutting and ripping red oak for the face frames and shaker doors. I even used it to make a few miter cuts for the internal stiffening members. I was very impressed with the capabilities of the system. If I did woodworking professionally I would probably have two or three of the guide rail systems set up optimized for different functions.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v212/mbg/EZ%20Smart/Eric%20Aquarium/th_IMG_1896_2.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v212/mbg/EZ%20Smart/Eric%20Aquarium/IMG_1896_2.jpg) http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v212/mbg/EZ%20Smart/Eric%20Aquarium/th_IMG_1895_1.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v212/mbg/EZ%20Smart/Eric%20Aquarium/IMG_1895_1.jpg)


Mike

[Alan Tolchinsky]

In my current shop I only have a guided saw system and it's a minor pain. Where a TS insures parallel rip cuts, the GSS can only be adjusted close. If you want six pieces ripped all the same width you have to move the GSS every time and hope they are all close. On the TS all parts would be ripped identically with no sweat.

I think the GSS are great for breaking down large sheet goods but after that I really miss having a table saw, any table saw. Would somebody give me a table saw please!

[Peter Quadarella]

I am currently building out my shop and do not intend to get a table saw. For very long rips the guided circular saw is not ideal but the bandsaw should cover that. Most people have jointers for edges in that case as well. For shorter cuts my circular saw cuts as accurately and cleanly as a a tablesaw many times its price. I have a dedicated setup with fences and squaring stops, etc, so it is pretty fast, if not as fast as a table saw, although when gang cutting it can surpass the speed of a tablesaw. Getting consistent sizes is a non-issue also since I set my fence just like on a table saw. For sheet goods, guided saws excel.

[Stan Welborn]

I have a table saw, but it's over in the corner. I haven't used it in a couple of months. It's the only "stationary" tool in my shop on wheels. I use a guided saw for knocking down sheet goods, but admittedly I don't use alot of sheet goods. I use bandsaw/jointer/SCMS/routers for everything else. Cutting long miters is the only reason I kept the tablesaw at all.

I use the bandsaw in lieu of a tablesaw when ripping. Leave it a shade proud, and clean it up with a pass or two on the jointer. It's what works for me.

[Ben Grunow]

I think I could do without the TS except that repetitive work is much faster on the TS and if you wanted to make a bavel on a board that is past 45 you are out of oluck with the GSS (like making raised panel cut on the TS with board standing up resulting in 10 degree bevelled edge).

As a carpenter I have and use both and would not be without either. A fence is accurate when set up. The GSS's require a mark to cut to and there is a lot of room for error when measuring is introduced (I have festool stuff- sorry for telling you Paul)

Ben

[John Stevens]

Hi, Paul. I own a guided circular saw system that will remain nameless. :)
I bought it three years ago with the hope of ditching the table saw, but I have kept it for ripping and cove cutting.
I'm trying to do more ripping with the GCSS by adopting two standard operating procedures: (1) standardizing the thicknesses of the stock I use (that way I always have some stock of the correct thickness on hand to support the guide while ripping); and (2) for rips less than ~6" wide, using the GCSS to rip about 1-2mm wider than finished dimension, then running through the planer on edge. However, for right now, I would not get rid of the TS. My mind might change when I upgrade to a planer with a Shelix head that will eliminate tearout.

The "other brand" if GCSS that I do not own may be "easier" for rip cuts, although I have never used it.

As far as cross-cuts go, the GCSS is a little slower than the TS, but I prefer it much for its accuracy, safety and improved dust collection compared to the TS. I haven't use the TS for cross cutting since getting the GCSS.
Hope this helps.

Regards,

John

[Matt Meiser]

I tried it and gave up. Luckily I didn't sell my tablesaw when I tried. My newer guided saw is better from a usability point of view, but I still can't imagine regularly using it for ripping stock for the reason Ben mentioned. There are positioning systems available, but in my experience a lightweight system isn't going to have the ridgidity of a good solid table saw fence. My fence stays put, the positioning aid I used flexed up to 1/8" with reasonable pressure. My tablesaw fence locks down square every time. The positioning aid I used relied heavily on you making sure you were square every time. I use my tablesaw for joinery as much as cutting stuff to size. I'd rather run a bunch of dados and/or rabbets with the table saw than a router any day. For one thing the table saw is going to spit a lot less stuff into the air and onto the floor than the router and for another it is a lot quieter. Another issue--there are only a couple places to go for technique on the guided saw systems. With a table saw there's hundreds of books, magazine articles, etc. on technique.

[Mike Goetzke]

Where a TS insures parallel rip cuts, the GSS can only be adjusted close. If you want six pieces ripped all the same width you have to move the GSS every time and hope they are all close. On the TS all parts would be ripped identically with no sweat.


Many of the nameless guided saw systems are now designed so the saw rail remains stationary and the wood is moved against a fence to make the next cut. This method increases speen and gives consistent width accuracy similar to a TS.

[glenn bradley]

Many of the nameless guided saw systems are now designed so the saw rail remains stationary and the wood is moved against a fence to make the next cut. This method increases speen and gives consistent width accuracy similar to a TS.

Interesting. So you build a TS like mechanism around the wood and then move the wood kinda like on a tablesaw. I could see this being a benfit in some circumstances.

[glenn bradley]

Depending on the nature of your work a table saw is not absolutely necessary. I wouldn't want to be without it or a straight-edge-guide and my circ-saw. But, for me square legs, aprons, side-panels, tabletops, etc. are the bulk of my work. Lots of straight, square shapes. If I built provincial furniture or pieces with lots of curves and finals I could do without it better than if I were a kitchen cabinet maker or did custom pool tables or some such. Consider what you want to do and then tool-up accordingly.

[Jay Brewer]

Wow, look at all the posts from NC, thought I was on the wrong forum :). I think you all ready know what I am going to say ;). If you are getting out of it professionally, then I can see it. It would be one thing to go from a traditional table saw to a GSS, but to go from the saw you have now to a GSS??? ( I know how much you love your saw ) . That would take some getting used to. I think a nice cabinet saw w/ a sliding attachment like a Jessum and a GSS would make a good combo.

I think you already have a GSS?? Build your next project with only it and see how you like it. Hope it works out for you.

[Bill Wyko]

I have a small shop so long rip cuts are done with my ts75 on saw horses outside, but when cutting small or narrow pieces, the table saw it essential. For my opperation I need both.

[Dino Makropoulos]

Hi Paul,
Putting all the guided systems and straight edges in one bag and looking for an answer is very confusing.

Guided systems come in many ways. Similar to the tablesaws.
(Portable, contractor saws, cabinet saws, sliding table saws, EU Format, etc.)

Prices starting from $30.00 (BORG) all the way up to $1500.00.
Here is the latest from the guided systems and the Dead Wood Concept.

This setup is the EZ-PBB2550. ( Power Bench with the Bridge)
Offers a rip fence ( like the tablesaw)
Squaring stops ( like the sliding table saw but without moving the wood)
Extendable table top for supporting oversized panels.
Same setup can be used for routing, M@T, Fluting, etc. (With the SRK)
The Bridge can be removed and the table can be used as a Bench.
The rail on the Bridge can be used off the PBB.
The list goes on and on but I don't want to be taken wrong
or start another bad debate.

Please, take a look at this video and you can see why I replied to your post.


http://youtube.com/watch?v=AiJJQp1EPKI

Thanks.
Dino Makropoulos
Eurekazone.

[Dan Barr]

I think having both is really the best way to go.

i hate ripping an entire sheet of plywood on my tablesaw. it just does not work out in my 2 car garage/shop. GCSS does that just fine.

would i want to give up my miter sled though? H#!_!_ NO!!!

they both have many advantages.

ciao,

dan

[Burt Waddell]

Next question: If you only have a Guided saw system do you use other means to rip/crosscut soild stock (bandsaw, miter saw, etc....) ?

I'll try to respect your request for no brand names but since some things are used by only one company it may become obvious which system I am using.

A guided system, using both the rails and the power bench, has assumed all cutting duties on job sites for me.

In the shop a unisaw with a stock feeder is used for bulk ripping only. (example: when we start a kitchen, we rip all the hardwood at one time.)

I have a power bench that I refer to as the EZ Uni that I use for all the cross cutting of hardwoods. The length stop is a unifence. Accuracy, as always with a unifence is great. I use it a lot for gang cutting of face frame and door components. The sliding miter saw is for sale and I sure wish someone would buy it so I can get it out of my way.

Plywood is processed on a large power bench. It is large enough to handle a full sheet of plywood and do a rip cut.



Next question: Any regrets in making the change? Advantages?
Drawbacks?

No regrets. Advantages: Quicker, easier, safer and I expend a lot less effort doing the work.

Drawbacks: It took a little while for me to learn how to employ the tools properly but that was time well spent.

Now for you guys that do not know me I have owned a lot of machinery (contractor saws, cabinets saws, european sliders, guided saw system), and have done/do this professionally. My questions are from the actual use of a guided saw shop with no other cabinet saw or european slider in use in your shop. I have had both but have never only a guided saw system.

Paul,

When I started with the guided system, my assistant was bitterly opposed to the guided system. When he started using a square a little, he quickly fell in love with the guided systems. He now has his own guided system for hobby use at home. Later we moved into the power benches and he is now gathering parts to build his own power bench. He is working on the best way to employ the rail system from a BT-3000 on a power bench.

I agree with Dino's comments about it being unfair to group guided systems together. That is like grouping all table saws together. I know that the guided system that I now use is vastly different than the same brand that I started using about 3 years ago. And the system that I will be using at this time next year will be vastly different from the one that I have now.

Burt

[Joe Mioux]

You know, you see these old cabinet shops on TV or on the internet doing really remarkable work with minimal tools.

The one thing you never see a good cabinet shop lacking is a good table saw.

Simplicity, think simplicity. You always see as the main tool in any shop is a table saw. Sometimes it is a really really old very heavy industrial TS that someone rebuilt to suit the needs of their small pro shoop and other times it is some very talented person owning a high dollar saw working hard to turn a profit.

All I have to do is go to work, walk through the greenhouse range out the back door walk another 100' and find myself in a garage of a master carpenter/woodworker.. His tools? some gold colored Craftsmen tools, circa the 1950's amd a Craftsmen contractors saw with the waffle wings.

It really doesn't matter. For me, this is a hobby. If I can afford to buy a MM315 slider and pay for it I will and I don't have to justify my hobby's expenses to anyone. As long as it is in reason.

For a pro shop, yea you do have to justify the expenses.

hth
joe

[Jesse Cloud]

Hey Paul,

This question comes up about once a week on www.*nonamegcss*ownersgroup.org and there is about an equal division of folk who say a tablesaw is a total waste of space and those who would not be without one. Personally, I have both and will stay that way. If I had to, I could certainly do without a TS, but it does some things faster and easier. But the GCSS does other things faster and easier.

If you held a gun to my head, I would probably choose the gcss, but miss the TS.

[Ed Brady]

I have been reading posts and asking questions at Sawmill Creek for some time in preparation for setting up a shop for my hobby. I'll be making furniture, doing home improvements and making small items like boxes and clocks. I have owned a Shopsmith with jointer and bandsaw for over twenty years but I have always wanted a really nice and powerful table saw and had just about decided to buy a PM2000 (or maybe stretching to a SawStop).

Then I started looking at guided systems. In fact, someone on this forum suggested that I do that research before committing to a TS. I have a small (217 ft2) shop, so room is a big factor. Fitting in a cabinet saw, outfeed table and work/assembly area was just not working. So I made the decision to go with the system not named here and I am not going to buy the TS I have coveted all these years.

When I get my shipment of parts soon I plan to make a 4' x 6' power bench that will allow me to do most (if not all) of my sawing and routing with precision and safety. The bench will be based on a torsion box assembly table design from FWW (Marc Spagnuolo) with guide system components attached. By the way, the particular company I am buying from is custom sizing some of the pieces to fit my design. Pretty nice.

So when I am done I'll have one table with cabinet base that I can use to lay out projects, store tools, rip, crosscut, rout and glue/clamp/assemble. It will be very versatile (not to mention cost effective) and it will fit beautifully in my space. I still have the Shopsmith table saw and other functions if needed, plus I'll keep my router table and SCMS -- at least for the time being. After I get all this up and running I'll post some thoughts and pictures.

I am really excited about discovering a new way to work -- one that challenges my creativity.

Thanks,

Ed Brady

[Scott Seigmund]

Paul,

I've used guided systems extensively in the field, and also run a three-TS shop. As a professional, your needs will be driven by the type of work you are doing. If you use sheet materials extensively for many identical parts (i.e. cabinets) there no way you can give up table saws. One setup for many cuts. With the guided system, you have many setups for many cuts, and accuracy form part to part will be reduced. Also, making many small components, such as drawer sides would be tedious on the guided system.

Don’t discount the ability to mount a power feed on the TS. For serious ripping, this is the only way to go, and one of the biggest safety improvements for the shop. I seem to recall a study some years ago that implicated the TS as the tool responsible for the overwhelming majority of wood shop injuries. It’s easy to become complacent while doing repetitive tasks. A power feed will deliver consistent cuts far better than the human motor, and keep hands away from the blade while providing significant protection against kickback. Woodworking is now a hobby for me, but I still have a power feed for my TS.

Scott

[Joe Chritz]

I love my guided saw system and use it pretty regular. Maybe I am missing something but I have never been able to process a full kitchen of sheet goods into panels without using the TS. There always seems to be a bit of difference in the width from sheet to sheet. Just enough to notice.

Consequently I break all sheets down by cutlist and trim them on the TS with a fence.

Personally I see them as two different tools with overlapping functions. I can function with just a TS or just a good rail system but neither can fully replace the other without some compromise.

Joe

[David Parker]

This is a really interesting discussion. Since I currently have neither TS nor rail guide system, I find it really helpful in deciding which way to go in my tiny shop I'm putting together. It seems that people prefer whichever system they feel most comfortable with and can do the jobs that they require.

From a physical point of view, it seems that a bench fence system with rail guided circular saw could be made very much like a table saw. In one, the saw moves and the wood is held stationary, and in the other, the wood moves and the saw is held stationary.

I'd love to see the setup that Ed is putting together. It may be just what I need in my space, which is smaller than his. What a great forum this is!

[Rob Will]

I can see using a guided saw for breaking down sheet goods but when it comes time to do some serious ripping......you have to like the power and quick setup of the TS.

Rob

[James Biddle]

Has anyone that has converted from a TS & guided system to a guided system only been able to realize any actual floor space savings or did the TS space simply get replaced by an additional table? I currently use a guided system to break bown all my sheet goods in the garage and have a second one on a small table in the basement. I worry that if I got rid of the TS that I would need to fill it's space with a larger table to accomplish the same tasks. If that's true, then the only reason to get rid of the TS would be to generate some cash. Not a significant amount of cash would be generated by selling my Jet cabinet saw (as with a $$$ euro-saw) and its a one-time event. But, if there's a big space savings to be had, it makes the thought more interesting.

[Randal Stevenson]

I think I could do without the TS except that repetitive work is much faster on the TS and if you wanted to make a bavel on a board that is past 45 you are out of oluck with the GSS (like making raised panel cut on the TS with board standing up resulting in 10 degree bevelled edge).

Ben

I figured out a way around that with a guided system. Just like you do with other things on TS, you have to build a sled. However some CS, do go more then 45 degrees (really wish I knew what key combination under Linux gives me the degree symbol.)


I tried it and gave up. Luckily I didn't sell my tablesaw when I tried. My newer guided saw is better from a usability point of view, but I still can't imagine regularly using it for ripping stock for the reason Ben mentioned. There are positioning systems available, but in my experience a lightweight system isn't going to have the ridgidity of a good solid table saw fence. My fence stays put, the positioning aid I used flexed up to 1/8" with reasonable pressure. My tablesaw fence locks down square every time. The positioning aid I used relied heavily on you making sure you were square every time. I use my tablesaw for joinery as much as cutting stuff to size. I'd rather run a bunch of dados and/or rabbets with the table saw than a router any day. For one thing the table saw is going to spit a lot less stuff into the air and onto the floor than the router and for another it is a lot quieter. Another issue--there are only a couple places to go for technique on the guided saw systems. With a table saw there's hundreds of books, magazine articles, etc. on technique.

Yet more reasons why some use TS fences, and we all have choice (a REALLY good thing) in this country. As posters like Nissim Avrahami points out, other countries have restrictions on Dado's/rabbets.

As to the where to find information, I personally see that, as the any GCSS problem.


Hi Paul,
Putting all the guided systems and straight edges in one bag and looking for an answer is very confusing.

Guided systems come in many ways. Similar to the tablesaws.
(Portable, contractor saws, cabinet saws, sliding table saws, EU Format, etc.)

Prices starting from $30.00 (BORG) all the way up to $1500.00.

Thanks.
Dino Makropoulos
Eurekazone.

Should be ended there IMHO. While TS all have different price points and designs, the one idea they SHARE with GCSS, is they cut wood. There are IDEA's one can and should listen and learn from others techniques, they can allow us to improve ours. You had a kid best you in speed last year, and he had never used a system, yet you still learned something.


Paul,

When I started with the guided system, my assistant was bitterly opposed to the guided system. When he started using a square a little, he quickly fell in love with the guided systems. He now has his own guided system for hobby use at home. Later we moved into the power benches and he is now gathering parts to build his own power bench. He is working on the best way to employ the rail system from a BT-3000 on a power bench.

I agree with Dino's comments about it being unfair to group guided systems together. That is like grouping all table saws together. I know that the guided system that I now use is vastly different than the same brand that I started using about 3 years ago. And the system that I will be using at this time next year will be vastly different from the one that I have now.

Burt

Burt, TS get grouped together ALL the time to learn about idea's and techniques. It helps people develop their own methods and idea's based on what they learn, and informs consumers on differences between specific models, which can let the consumer make the choice that is smartest for them. (Customers aren't idiot's, even though sometimes they seem like it)
As for your last statement: "And the system that I will be using at this time next year will be vastly different from the one that I have now."

That is EXACTLY why they should be allowed to be grouped together. Systems AND idea's expand, and shouldn't be limited by brand, but by the users OWN ability to foresee needs, idea's and their own capabilities.


You know, you see these old cabinet shops on TV or on the internet doing really remarkable work with minimal tools.

The one thing you never see a good cabinet shop lacking is a good table saw.

Simplicity, think simplicity. You always see as the main tool in any shop is a table saw. Sometimes it is a really really old very heavy industrial TS that someone rebuilt to suit the needs of their small pro shoop and other times it is some very talented person owning a high dollar saw working hard to turn a profit.

For a pro shop, yea you do have to justify the expenses.

hth
joe

Actually Joe, I grew up knowing others that the center of the shop was the RAS. I also grew up knowing that my grandfather was somewhat dragged into the tailed tool age (although he died long before he could pass any neander knowledge). He built things out of need, not want (which is now how too many of us spend). While his stuff was functional, it wasn't always pretty (depression and WWII leasons).
I have a friend who when he got married years ago, he (bought/was gifted?) a circular saw with a table mounting kit (the old converts to a tablesaw) and a router, and bits as needed. While he did do home fix it type stuff, he also got into woodworking as a way to relax, and the two examples I saw of what he built (including a bumper pool table), WITH those tools are already beyond my current capabilities and by others train of thought, should have been above those tools.

I agree the tools DON'T make the skill or talent, and in a pro shop, they can speed up efficency (cost verses profit). But that doesn't mean the TS has to be the center (there are other schools of WW like turning, etc)

This board, like others is about idea's, and sharing of knowledge. Zelots from ANY tool, need to remember that and listen to the whole question and the spirit of the question. Until we get over this, and keep having wars (two main brands, but where I bought my first one from pushed another entirely (nonexclusive wars) GCSS, as MORE THEN A CONCEPT, is going to be both a hard sell, and a HARD THING TO LEARN about. Not all systems are designed the same, and that is BY CHOICE. Different design goals and idea's should not be a limit to the idea that User of system A, can learn from user of system B, that "OH, you use it for that function, I never thought of that".

I do hope we can continue this peacably

[Randal Stevenson]

Has anyone that has converted from a TS & guided system to a guided system only been able to realize any actual floor space savings or did the TS space simply get replaced by an additional table? I currently use a guided system to break bown all my sheet goods in the garage and have a second one on a small table in the basement. I worry that if I got rid of the TS that I would need to fill it's space with a larger table to accomplish the same tasks. If that's true, then the only reason to get rid of the TS would be to generate some cash. Not a significant amount of cash would be generated by selling my Jet cabinet saw (as with a $$$ euro-saw) and its a one-time event. But, if there's a big space savings to be had, it makes the thought more interesting.


Think about your table design, verses your TS. You have your TS, the space in front and back you have for infeed and outfeed. How long of pieces do you work with?
If you design your table accordingly, then you only have the length of the board, and you could design it in such a way to fit on stands/legs, so it could be broken down and leaned against a wall (or raised up in the rafters, etc). You could also design it to fit over your TS, until you decide what works FOR YOU. As selling the TS, is a one time money event, and that money will either go for more tools (tableparts), or wood, only you will be able to decide gain or loss.

[Doug Hobkirk]

Both the premium GSS'es offer tables with stops and fences, both have mechanisms to easily raise and lower the GSS if the wood won't slide under it easily w/o lifting. They would not be as fast as a TS for repetitive rip cuts, but they wouldn't be dramatically slower either.

And they have some huge advantages -
you can place your saw directly on top of your cut line
they are vastly better for cutting big sheets - I HATE loading and cutting full sheets of plywood onto the TS (I work alone) and it takes a lot of time to set up and a lot of care to get an accurate cut unless you have a big saw with big extensions
they are faster for lots of (most?) cuts for most typical home shop projects - but many of you are more expert on this subject than me (but do note that all the "TS is faster" comments were about repetitive rip cuts)
they are easily portable
they don't take up a huge amount of space - the TS needs at least 8' of space in front and behind the bladeBut the biggest issue may be safety. You don't need to worry about kickback (everyone knows a story of a TS projectile that dented something 20 or 30 feet away), or slicing you hand (look at the sales of SawStop's), or having a very sharp blade sticking up in the middle of a large flat surface (lots of us don't lower the blade when we're done, and lots of us use any available horizontal surface when we need it).

And there's the money issue. It seems clear that most people have and need a GSS. I would suggest starting with a GSS and determine if you want to add a TS later.


I regret having bought my two TS'es - my new GSS really seems to do almost everything as well or better.

[JayStPeter]

I have used my GCSS/table combo in place of the TS for a couple small projects. I find it more cumbersome than just going to the TS for many operations. But, for other operations it is pretty nice. Unfortunately, the size of the particular table I have is limiting and I have depth of cut issues once I get up into 8+/4 materials (which is fairly often these days).
I'm definitely not selling my TS. I have considered cutting my fence rails down to make a smaller footprint, but every time I really get serious about it something comes along to change my mind.
Right now I have a large part of my shop footprint dedicated to having both a TS and a cutting table to size down 4x8 sheets (plus the smaller system table). While the TS infeed/outfeed area overlaps the cutting table, eliminating one or the other would be nice.
Even though the newer offerings that are shockingly advertised in this thread look pretty slick and add capability over what I have, I don't see them getting rid of my TS either. There is too much joinery I do on it that I haven't found a more accurate and fast way to do. It's not for lack of trying, I've been churning out router jigs by the dozen.
In short, I've been trying to reduce the amount I rely on the TS. I agree that as far as safety goes, there are safer ways to do lots of the things I do on it. But, the draw of 10 seconds at the TS vs. a few minutes dorking around with rails, saw, vac cords and hoses keeps the TS in the center of my shop. Having the ability to safely and accurately cut parts from large sheets will also keep the cutting table in my shop. In fact, the large cutting table will likely be improved using parts from the smaller table, which has provided little value in the shop but has done OK as a portable device.

Jay

[Stan Welborn]

Even though the newer offerings that are shockingly advertised in this thread ...

http://www.diemade.de/fun/rofl.png

[Greg Pavlov]

How could a guided saw system replace a table saw for ripping hardwood boards ? ....
About a week ago I ripped 6' lengths of 2" maple (actually, face-glued 1" boards) with my Festool gear. I took in a few cutoffs to the local ww store to show the skeptics that you can get a glue edge with a guided saw setup. There are vcharacteristics/limitations of such setups (with Festool, at least: it's the only one I have experience with) that make various operations less than optimal/cumbersome, but ripping hardwood in and of itself is not one of them.

[Bob Feeser]

Talk about guided saw systems. I bought the Pro Tru Grip system, with 2', 4', and 8' rails, and also bought the plates for router, circular saw, and stop. I see in Amazon that they are discontinued, no longer supplied from manufacturer. It makes a great guided saw system for ripping large sheets of plywood. Next to a table saw, you have a lot of measuring, and tweaking to do to get it right, but it works great. You can read my review on the Pro series in Amazon, and see that it has 4 and 5 star reviews by others across the board, but they don't even have a Pro series picture at the top of the page the review is on. I have several of the standard tru-grip clamps, including there back to back clamp, that I was drooling over forever, until I broke down and bought 2 of them. What gives with Tru-Grip, did they go out of business?
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/71W36KDME7L._AA280_.gif
Here is the Amazon page with my review (http://www.amazon.com/Tru-Grip-FT8TS-Pro-FTR/dp/B0000224DB). I see everyone is buying the All In One clamping system (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0000DYV40/ref=pd_cp_hi_0?pf_rd_p=277661601&pf_rd_s=center-41&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B0000224DB&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=0ZDT8ZEQNS36SZNMBXC3), which is available. Anyone use one of those yet, it seems to be getting great reviews?

[Art Mann]

I have one of those saw guides (All In One) and I thought it worked fairly well until I ran up on instructions to build a home made saw guide out of 1/4" masonite and a 3/4" plywood or hardwood 1 X 6. It works much better and cost me practically nothing. The next step up would be the the EZ Smart system, but this simple jig works so well that I am not inclined to spend more money.