Ready to buy some new tools...little input Please

[Paul Arnold]

I am now ready to buy/upgrade to some new tools. I have gotten rid of my TS, Planer and Jointer died. I'm sure this going to stir the pot but I would like some recommendations on each. Used would be great, but everything around here used is typically junk, so I'm prepared to pay for the new. Have budgeted $3200 to do so, but naturally would like to have some left to add some more clamps, maybe a Colt router, or whatever.

TS- Naturally would love a PM2000, but that would eat 70% of my budget and put me back to a lunchbox planer and 6" jointer.

Joniter - 8" or bigger. Do I want standard doveways or parrallogram? 3-, 4-blade or spiral?

Planer - 15" or bigger. Same thing here blades or spiral?

Is a planer really necessary? What if I faced and edged one side of the board and then re-sawed to within an 1/8" on opposite face, then ran that edge back over the jointer?

If the money was yours to spend would you spend fairly equal amounts on all 3 or "cheat" towards one particular piece, if so which?

Thanks,
Paul

[Anthony Whitesell]

You'll find plenty of posts here on buying a jointer vs. a planer. The function of a jointer is to make an edge flat and smooth. The function of a planer is to make two side parallel. I believe you'll find that it's the jointer that you can generally do with out. I don't have one and ponder getting one, but it's last on my list. You can smooth the faces of a board on a planer by making small passes and alternate sides on each pass. To square one edge you can you a router and staight edge and straight bit or a tablesaw with rip fence and a jig. To parallel the other edge, just rip it on the TS.

The nice thing about the spiral cutter heads is that although they cost 2-3X as much, they are actually 4 cutter heads in one. Each of the little cutters is sharpened on four sides so you just have to rotate them to have a sharp blade. I haven't converted yet mostly because my current blades haven't worn out yet. I don't know which one is better but for the long run the spiral cutter appears to be cheaper.

[keith ouellette]

Jointer: I have the G0490 para. tables and love it. Some one else just got one delivered with a bad base but I bet Grizzly will take care of the problem. I have 4 blades and don't think more in really necessary unless you are useing figured wood but I am not very experienced and work with maple and oak mostly so take that into consideration. The para tables have great amounts of adjustment abilities.

TS: I looked at the pm at wood craft and could not spend the extra money on it with the jet exacta looking identical and costing so much less. I just did the nickel test and the penny test and they both passed with flying colors. Its a good saw. Looking both of them over they looked like they were almost made of the same parts.

[alex grams]

G0656 8" x 72" Jointer with Mobile Base ($839.00)

G0453 15" Planer ($939.00)

Then use the remaining 1400 to either buy a good TS or wait around for a used one.

I don't know your exact needs for the larger planer, but if you want to get a nicer table saw, you have a lot of cheaper options for a 13" planer that could save you $300-$400 (DW735).

Good used 8" jointers are rarer, so waiting on one of those could take a while.

I envy your dilemma.

[Todd Bin]

How about the new Jet jointer/planer machine. I think it has 12" capacity and would be approx. $2000. That would leave $1200 for a nice grizzly or steel city table saw.

Problem solved.

[Eric Haycraft]

Spending someone else's money.. my favorite hobby.

For all three within your budget:
Planer Grizzly G0453 - $939 delivered - This is a 15 inch industrial model. I have it and it is nice.
Jointer: Grizzly g0490 - $939 delivered - Don't have this, but everyone raves about it.
TS: Grizzly G1023SLW - $1194 delivered.

Personally, I would probably skip the jointer and pick up a Jet XACTA Deluxe.. You can get a 3HP with 50 inch table for $1631.04 and that should easily outlive you. If you don't do tons of jointer work, a jig in the table saw and a hand plane work just as well and cost substantially less.

[George Bregar]

You really need all three, and can easily do it on your budget. That being said, you give no parameters of what you are looking for...is space an issue? I assume you want a cabinet saw from your PM2000 comment. How's this:

1) Grizzly 10" cabinet saw w/ extensions $1,300
2) Grizzly 8" jointer w/ base $700
3) Grizzly 15" Planer $800.

$400 covers shipping.

[Jim Becker]

You can do a very nice cabinet saw and a 12" J/P combo from Jet or Grizzly for your approximate budget. And yes, you do need a planer if you have a jointer. You cannot use a jointer on both sides of a board and expect those sides to remain parallel. Do remember that with the combo J/P, a dust/chip collector is not optional, however...that will also need to be budgeted but frankly, you need it anyway for personal health and safety.

[Larry Fox]

If I were you, I would look in the used market and you can likely get all three and have money left over in your budget. You mention the quality of the used market around "here" but you don't say where here is so you might need to be patient or be willing to drive to get them.

TS - you should be able to get a decent uni or similar for $~1,000
Jointer - you should be able to get a gently used DJ-20 8" for $~800
That leaves you $1,400 for a planer. I would buy the two-speed Delta lunchbox and stash the remaining $1,000 for other things down the line. Maybe even a decent bandsaw or some dust collection.

I picked Delta only because that is what I know - substitute brand name of choice and the prices should be in the same scale.

That's my $0.02. :)

[Paul Arnold]

- Anthony, I understand exactly what you are saying, but I could never get the board dead flat with just the planer as I had it for 6 months before a jointer.

- Keith, I have been looking at that jointer as well as the G0453. I appreciate your input on it. Anyone else have the GO490 or G0453? My Woodcraft didn't have the Jet to compare to the PM2000, but I have read that they are very similar. I understand that the PM has the "premium" features for that "premium" price. Anyhow, that Jet is one I have looked at as well especially for $600-$800 less.

- Alex, " envy your dilemma." This situation can be a bad one based on the fact that I may pick something I shouldn't have. But that's why I'm asking you folks, so I don't! I have looked closley at both of the machines you mentioned. As for the 15"+ planer I just want the larger since I have found that my 13" wasn't large enough on a more consistent basis. Thanks for the ideas though.

- Todd, I'll have to look into it. Steel City, aren't they the ones with granite tables? I thought they were $$$$ like the PM2000. I'll look at those as well. Thanks.

Can I get any deals at the upcoming (March) trade show in Charlotte or am I just as well off buying now?

Do spirals cut better than blades?

Thanks,
Paul

[Paul Arnold]

First,
Thanks for all the replies.

I am located in South Carolina, sorry I thought it was listed.

As for the BS and dust collection, I have that, although a nice big cyclone would be a welcome addition.

As for shop space I have a 18' x 35' decicated area for wood shop. Alarge lean to off the back, so the dust collector can sit out there. Also have a 10' x 20' room (mostly storage) and a 10' x 10' room that can be used for finishing. This smaller room has a sink and A/C (wall unit but still!).

Thanks,
Paul

[Jim O'Dell]

Paul, SC just recently introduced a model with granite top. The others have conventional cast iron, or CI with a coating (titanium?). I've seen one model mentioned here on the Creek recently for about 1200.00 delivered, IIRC. I'd bet it was the regular CI top. Jim.

[Doug Jones from Oregon]

Paul, I've been offered an opportunity to relocate to Canada and if I accept, here is my plan.

Since I've already sold off all of my equipment, have to drive to my new home, and tow my nearly empty trailer...I'm going to stop in at the home of the grizzley and load up on what I can't get up there.

This means I'll be getting
Table saw, G065X. I will go with the 5hp...I"ve experienced many times that 3hp was a little short.
Planer G1021X2 15" is plenty...I have seen very few boards wider than 15" in my 25+ years of sawdust production and they would not be very stable anyways. If I was doing large glue-ups, ie door panels or countertop type stuff, I might consider wider.
Jointer, not planning on one....have sold off 3 at different times as they just were not used in my shop.
Bandsaw....G0514X3

Other stuff I'll pick up while there will include the drill press and dust collection, probably one of their downdraft tables, a edge sanding sander and the spindle sander.

I will be within a couple hundred miles of the store when I get settled so a trip back down to pickup other "must haves" won't be a problem!

So...what does this mean? This means that this die hard Delta, Powermatic fan has been converted. I'm convinced that the griz can provide me with the equipment I need to continue my passion for sawdust!

[Steven Wilson]

I would save up a couple of months and pick up a MiniMax C26.

[Joe Chritz]

I got by with a 6" Ridgid jointer and lunch box planer for many hundreds of board feet. Huge numbers of people do the same.

That said, buy a decent 8" jointer minimum. You can find used ones all the time, lots are on 3 phase but if you factor in a new motor they deals are still very good. The grizzly 8" is a very good machine, mine does not have parallelogram adjustment. My understanding is that is a way to reduce table sag and dovetail ways wearing and needing adjustment. Someday I will need to adjust my tables with shims but there are a lot of standard jointers in service that work exceptionally well.

Myself, if I was in your spot would order an 8' Grizzly jointer or comparable cost used or new one. In that price range they are all about the same. A used cabinet saw or maybe even a used contractor saw. I have seen Ridgid 3650's selling for under $400 on auction or cragislist. Then a lunch box planer (used ones go for $200-$250 on the classifieds here) and I would hold some of the rest for other tools. Save some cash every week and get new equipment when you find deals and know what you want.

I still haven't sold my Ridgid TS yet since it keeps plugging away with no trouble.

Joe

[Justin Bukoski]

I strongly suggest a J/P combo. I'm not sure what good a 15" planer is if you only have an 8" jointer.

The other thing I suggest is look around for a used 5/1 combo. I can't believe how much more fun I have woodworking now that I have one.

[Lee Koepke]

I strongly suggest a J/P combo. I'm not sure what good a 15" planer is if you only have an 8" jointer.

The other thing I suggest is look around for a used 5/1 combo. I can't believe how much more fun I have woodworking now that I have one.
my cabinet maker associate said his 15" planer is good because he can do little glue-ups for tops and run a top thru in two pieces instead of three.

the jointer size doesnt matter to him. so, again, i guess its a matter of preference and usage.

[Paul Arnold]

Lee,
You are dead on with that. I also make a lot of cutting boards and by the time I glue them I can't keep them perfectlly aligned, thus the need for the planer, and I would like to make some lager ones than 13".


I got by with a 6" Ridgid jointer and lunch box planer for many hundreds of board feet. Huge numbers of people do the same.

Myself, if I was in your spot would order an 8' Grizzly jointer or comparable cost used or new one. In that price range they are all about the same. A used cabinet saw or maybe even a used contractor saw. I have seen Ridgid 3650's selling for under $400 on auction or cragislist. Then a lunch box planer (used ones go for $200-$250 on the classifieds here) and I would hold some of the rest for other tools. Save some cash every week and get new equipment when you find deals and know what you want.

I still haven't sold my Ridgid TS yet since it keeps plugging away with no trouble.


Joe,
I just got rid of a Ridgid TS3650, and Ridgid 1300. The jointer that died was a Ridgid as well. Like I originally stated I wish to upgrade to at least an 8" jointer as you said, but definitely want to get a cabinet TS.

Thanks,
Paul

[Bert Johansen]

Paul, I'm going to go in a completely different direction here. Give some thought to a Euro combo (used). I purchased a used Robland X-31 a few years ago, and paid just a bit more than you want to spend, but it is one wonderful machine and an engineering marvel. The Robland has a 12-inch jointer, 12-inch planer, TS with slider, shaper and horizontal mortiser. All this on the footprint of a table saw! There are similar combos made by other manufacturers as well, and they have similar layouts. You will need 220V--the Robland comes with three 3HP motors.

[Brodie Brickey]

You might consider a used combination machine. I don't know where you reside, but Chicago, Illinois has a Rojek combination Table Saw for ~$1900 on Craiglist.

[glenn bradley]

TS- Naturally would love a PM2000, but that would eat 70% of my budget and put me back to a lunchbox planer and 6" jointer.

- Griz 1023 left tilt around $1000

Joniter - 8" or bigger. Do I want standard doveways or parrallogram? 3-, 4-blade or spiral?

- Griz g0490X around $1100 I think (that's with the spiral; I was sold on straight knives but I have been convinced).

Planer - 15" or bigger. Same thing here blades or spiral?

- No recommendation here; my only experience leaves me with a dislike for the dimpling that large planer's metal rollers put on the surface but, the width is nice.

Is a planer really necessary? What if I faced and edged one side of the board and then re-sawed to within an 1/8" on opposite face, then ran that edge back over the jointer?

- Not really gonna happen. I'd use a planer sled and skip the jointer before I'd skip a planer. That being said I should state that I think the jointer is the tool most folks starting out under estimate the value of. As an example; look at all the posts here about "upgrading my jointer".

If the money was yours to spend would you spend fairly equal amounts on all 3 or "cheat" toward one particular piece, if so which?

- In most cases you do get what you pay for but I wouldn't try to mathematically divide my budget.


Now remember, this is all free advice and strictly my opinion. YMMV.

[Lance Norris]

I'll throw in another comment for Grizzly. The machines are very capable. You can spend a whole lot more money, and maybe get better quality, but it wont show in your work. No one is going to look at your work, and be able to tell it was built with a Sawstop, PM66/2000, Delta Unisaw, or Grizzly1023. I have 8 large machines. Delta and Jet was what I bought first, but the last 3 have been Grizzly. Had I been paying attention, most of my shop would be Grizzly green. Oh... and nobody will argue that Grizzlys customer service is anything but first class.

[Chris Yarish]

I found this of particular interest. Hits a certain pricepoint for hybrid TS's.
http://www.toolsofthetrade.net/industry-news.asp?sectionID=1492&articleID=501503