yet another question on link belts...

[matt tennessen]

I know that everyone's probably sick of questions on link belts for table saws, but... I have an early 70s craftsman tablesaw that suits my needs just fine and is not going to be replaced anytime soon. I would like to lessen some of the vibration, though, and a link belt seems like a good place to start. Would it be wise to change out the pulleys as well? I figured since the belt is 33 years old, the improvement I should see from that alone might be enough;). I was also thinking of using a blade stabilizer. I've never used one before, do they really do anything? Lately I've been using a thin kerf blade but I haven't noticed a difference in blade flexing or vibration. The available literature on tablesaw vibration certainly makes a good case for all of these accessories but its also often from either retailers or pros who look to eliminate any variable imaginable. Its not like I'm running a commercial shop. Belts, stabilizers, and pulleys aren't that expensive, but I could spend $100 on plenty of other things too. This forum seems to cater to just about all types of woodworkers, so I thought y'all would be the best people to ask. In advance: thanks.

[Donald Price]

Like any good experimental work start with a process in mind and go at it one step at a time in order to eliminate problems one at a time. I’ve used link belts for several years now and they seem to work fine. A stabilizer is also a nice addition to any saw setup and some thin kerf blades require them. If your saw has bearings they should be checked and replaced if worn.

[Bill Huber]

Welcome to the Creek..........

My old Craftsman is 54 years old and all I did was to put the link belt on the old pulleys and I could not believe the difference.

So I would start with the link belt and go from there.

[Mike Null]

On my 25 year old Craftsman, which I wish I still had, I used the link belt, turned steel pulleys and blade stabilizer along with a WWII blade and couldn't believe the smooth vibration-free cuts I got. If I hadn't had to set-up the fence on every rip I would still have the saw.

[Russ Filtz]

I don't feel the stabilizers did much for me. I quit trying to use thin kerf and worrying about blade wobble. I just use regular kerf now. All the stabilizers did was limit the amount of blade height I could get! The link belt will make the most noticeable difference.

[Lee Schierer]

I have an early 70s craftsman tablesaw that suits my needs just fine and is not going to be replaced anytime soon. I would like to lessen some of the vibration, though, and a link belt seems like a good place to start. Would it be wise to change out the pulleys as well? I figured since the belt is 33 years old, the improvement I should see from that alone might be enough;). I was also thinking of using a blade stabilizer. I've never used one before, do they really do anything? Lately I've been using a thin kerf blade but I haven't noticed a difference in blade flexing or vibration. The available literature on tablesaw vibration certainly makes a good case for all of these accessories but its also often from either retailers or pros who look to eliminate any variable imaginable. Its not like I'm running a commercial shop. Belts, stabilizers, and pulleys aren't that expensive, but I could spend $100 on plenty of other things too. This forum seems to cater to just about all types of woodworkers, so I thought y'all would be the best people to ask. In advance: thanks.

I have nearly the same age saw. Spending $100 on belts, pullies and agood alignment will be like buying a new saw.

Yes change the pullies. You may have trouble getting the old one off the arbor shaft. Check to make sure they didn't use two set screws, one behind the first to insure the screw didn't loosen. Also they may have created a burr on the shaft with the set screw. It isn't easy to get this pulley off.

Blade stiffeners are not needed. I have two pair, never use them. I think they are a gimmick invented to sell more stuff. I use a Freud thin kerf blade and have not seen blade deflection issues even when cutting full depth in oak or maple.

While you are working on replacing the blets and pullies is the ideal time to do a good tune up. Make sure you align the blade to the cross cut slot first. A dial indicator makes this much easier than any other method. You can pick up an acceptable dial indicator at Harbour Freight for under $20 and it will come in handy for lots of other alignment stuff. Then once the blade is aligned align the fence to the crosscut slot, though this can be problematic with Craftsman fences as some of them don't repeat alignment well.

When you are done, you will be amazed at the difference in the saw.

[Pat Germain]

I have an early 90's Craftsman CS. Installing machined pulleys and a link belt significantly reduced vibration and improved performance.

Only recently did I make the effort to buy a dial indicator. Wow, my trunnion was over seventy thousandths off! Yet, I wasn't able to get my trunnion square to the mitre slot. Every time I'd get it dialed in, I'd start to tighten the bolts and all would be lost. The best I could get was about twenty thousandths off.

Luckily, I found a PALS on the clearance rack of my local Woodcraft last weekend. I installed the PALS and, finally, I got the trunnion dialed in. I then used to the dial indicator to square up my aftermarket fence as well. (The factory fence was just a prop for some kind of cruel joke.)

Therfore, I would highly recommend installing a PALS on your saw along with the link belt and machined pulleys. I paid $19 for my PALS on clearance at Woodcraft, which is probably retail price online. Since I don't use any other saw, I really wasn't aware of what I was missing until I got it fixed. Things are much, much nicer on the saw now. I still plan to upgrade to a cabinet saw, but my Craftsman CS will get me by until then.

[Art Davis]

I have an early 90's Craftsman CS. Installing machined pulleys and a link belt significantly reduced vibration and improved performance.

Only recently did I make the effort to buy a dial indicator. Wow, my trunnion was over seventy thousandths off! Yet, I wasn't able to get my trunnion square to the mitre slot. Every time I'd get it dialed in, I'd start to tighten the bolts and all would be lost. The best I could get was about twenty thousandths off.

Luckily, I found a PALS on the clearance rack of my local Woodcraft last weekend. I installed the PALS and, finally, I got the trunnion dialed in. I then used to the dial indicator to square up my aftermarket fence as well. (The factory fence was just a prop for some kind of cruel joke.)

Therfore, I would highly recommend installing a PALS on your saw along with the link belt and machined pulleys. I paid $19 for my PALS on clearance at Woodcraft, which is probably retail price online. Since I don't use any other saw, I really wasn't aware of what I was missing until I got it fixed. Things are much, much nicer on the saw now. I still plan to upgrade to a cabinet saw, but my Craftsman CS will get me by until then.

Pat,
I have a set of PALS that have been in my shop for serveral years. I"ve been a bit leery of installing them because they require drilling. Did you run into any problems and do you have any words of advice?

Art

[Lee Schierer]

Only recently did I make the effort to buy a dial indicator. Wow, my trunnion was over seventy thousandths off! Yet, I wasn't able to get my trunnion square to the mitre slot. Every time I'd get it dialed in, I'd start to tighten the bolts and all would be lost. The best I could get was about twenty thousandths off.

I had the same problem.... the lock washer would pull the trunnion back into the factory location. I loosened it up enough to rotate the lock washer out of hte grooves it had cut in the casting, then it stayed where I put it. I also tightened each bolt a little at a time so that they could get a grip before I fully tightened any othe them.

[Pat Germain]

Pat,
I have a set of PALS that have been in my shop for serveral years. I"ve been a bit leery of installing them because they require drilling. Did you run into any problems and do you have any words of advice?

Art

Perhaps your PALS are different, Art. Do you have a Craftsman saw, or something else? My PALS didn't require any drilling. It's basically just a couple of angle brackets that bolt underneath the rear, outside trunnion bolts. The brackets have allen screws which push the rear of the trunnion left or right. My kit even came with studs to replace the factory bolts. The instructions did recommend filing a flat spot on each side of the trunnion, which I did.

For my install, I just threaded in the studs with some Loc-Tite, slid on the angle brackets and installed the lock nuts. I can post a picture of the setup tonight, if you like.

[matt tennessen]

wow, the floodgates opened! thanks for all of the responses, you guys are awesome. I think I'm going to go one improvement at a time and gauge the results. Pat, you mentioned you've got photos of your setup, if its not too much trouble, I'm interested in seeing what you did for future reference. thanks again.
matt.

[Pat Germain]

Matt, I created another thread with pictures of my saw. It's titled "Hot Rod Contractor Saw".

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=74619

[matt tennessen]

thanks for the pics Pat. I thought I understood what you meant with the PALS system, but looking at your photos, I'm not sure (I didn't see it on the Woodcraft site). How exactly does that work? It looks like the fine(r) adjustment screw (I'm assuming that those are the black horizontal screws) helps accurately dial in the trunnion after you've tightened the bolts a bit--but not all the way, just enough to keep it secure? On another note, I too have an accusquare fence and I'm planning on building a router table extension wing and putting my current shop-built router cabinet underneath (dust collection, dust collection). But that will make a mobile base necessary, how do you like that Delta mobile base? And since I'm stealing all of your ideas already, you don't have a simple dust collection idea for contractor saws, do you? ;)
Seriously though, thanks to everybody for their input and advice, I don't get to shoot the breeze with woodworker types all too often, so its nice to see an online equivilent of civil society.

[Joe Chritz]

I can't help with the router but for DC on a contractor saw I just closed the base in with some plywood and hard board and installed a starter flange for a flex hose to attach to.

I have a very old post that shows the set up on my Ridgid. The improvement was substantial. For the motor, lots of people use magnetic sign material. I used hardboard and just take it off when I need to adjust the blade bevel.

You don't need or want the cabinet fully sealed anyway.

Joe



And since I'm stealing all of your ideas already, you don't have a simple dust collection idea for contractor saws, do you? ;)
Seriously though, thanks to everybody for their input and advice, I don't get to shoot the breeze with woodworker types all too often, so its nice to see an online equivilent of civil society.

[Russ Filtz]

Remember to loosen your trunnion bolts enough for the PALS to actually move it. DAMHIKT!

[Pat Germain]

thanks for the pics Pat. I thought I understood what you meant with the PALS system, but looking at your photos, I'm not sure (I didn't see it on the Woodcraft site). How exactly does that work?

Yep. The screws on either side move the back of the trunnion left and right. Then you tighten the bolts. Woodcraft doesn't carry PALS anymore. That's why I got mine on the clearance rack. You can order PALS online from In-Line Industries.

http://www.in-lineindustries.com/saw_pals.html


On another note, I too have an accusquare fence and I'm planning on building a router table extension wing and putting my current shop-built router cabinet underneath (dust collection, dust collection).

I'm not sure I follow you there. I would suggest you use your router cabinet or a router extension. Trying to use the cabinet with the saw sounds troublesome.


But that will make a mobile base necessary, how do you like that Delta mobile base?

It's actually a Rockler mobile base. It comes as a kit. You buy the hardware and the wood separate. It works great.


And since I'm stealing all of your ideas already, you don't have a simple dust collection idea for contractor saws, do you? ;)

You can't see it in the pictures, but I just bolted a dust hood on the bottom of the saw. I also got that at Rockler. It works pretty well.