Which are the GOOD Radial arm saws?

[Greg Muller]

ENOUGH!!!
I have been drooling over every radial arm saw deal I see on Craigslist for the past year, but I keep hearing about how some are good, some are bad, some are dangerous, and some are works of art. The problem is I never hear any specifics.

I've heard the older DeWalts are okay, the Craftsman 113-series from the '70's is good, and the 1980's flat top something-or-other is awesome.

This is what I want;

Give me specific brand, model number, and years that rate a 9 or better (on a scale of 1 - 10, 10 being the best thing since God invented wood). The two requirements I ask is that your recommendation be able to handle a dado blade and that there are specs on it somewhere on the internet that I can reference.

I know I am going to get conflicting reports, but that's what happens when one asks for opinions...

I have already heard/read every warning ever written about RAS's, so please don't waste too much time trying to scare me off.

I think we can all learn something here... and I can soon finally buy a RAS that is recommended by "the Creekers".


Thank you all!!!!

Greg

[Jim Becker]

Well...you could just go to "good and current (http://www.originalsaw.com/)"........

[matt dumney]

Well...you could just go to "good and current (http://www.originalsaw.com/)"........


Nice...what kind of cash does something like that go for???

[Greg Muller]

Jim,
Those are nice, but I would have to get one of the Super Heavy Duty versions to use a dado. I'm guessing they start upwards of a grand, right?

Greg

[Simon Dupay]

Any non-Black & Decker dewalt, red star or delta, round arm craftsmen, comet, parks (also a craftsmen), Mon. wards, walker tuner, general, and the big unipoint.

[Greg Muller]

Simon,
Is that the "good list" or the "bad list". :confused:

[Steven Wilson]

If you're looking for a good RAS then order a Northfield Uni-Point (http://www.northfieldwoodworking.com/radialsaws/unipoint.htm), a real steal of a deal starting at $14K.

[Jeff Miller]

This is one of the good Craftsmans


http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f32/woodfarmer/New%20Shop%20Pictures/newshop010.jpg


http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f32/woodfarmer/New%20Shop%20Pictures/newshop034.jpg


Jeff;)

[Simon Dupay]

Simon,
Is that the "good list" or the "bad list". :confused:

Good list.

[Charles Cannon]

Jeff
Does your craftsman have a CI arm or aluminum? I bought one last year (113.19770) and discovered later (with a magnet) that it is aluminum or something.
Cannon

[Bob Aquino]

Greg
I just gotta ask, why do you want one so bad? They take up a good amount of room for the utility they provide. They can be maintenance headaches with the need for adjustments to keep the blade square and even with the table. Their big claim to fame is crosscutting which can be done with a cms for most things. The other functions that they used to advertise, like ripping or molding are downright dangerous. The only thing I can think of that they would do better is running a dado on a really long piece of stock. That can be done with a router and a jig.

I suppose if you have the room and the time to fiddle, it may be worth it. I had one of the sears cast iron round tube ones and sold it off. Dont miss it at all. YMMV

[Jeff Miller]

Jeff
Does your craftsman have a CI arm or aluminum? I bought one last year (113.19770) and discovered later (with a magnet) that it is aluminum or something.
Cannon


Mine is cast iron.......If I take that tin cover off the arm it's rounded cast iron underneath.


JEFF;)

[Rich Schneider]

I have a Delta 33-890 12" radial arm saw which is a early 80s version. It is what I understand to be called the "turret" style due to the way the arm is constructed (two pieces, one lower piece swivels under the upper piece) All cast iron construction except for the base which is stamped steel. I use it a lot for cross-cutting longer pieces to rough length and also to finish length and I've found it to be an excellent saw. The joints/actions have little to no slop and it stays in adjustment well. The pull action is smooth. The weight of the saw motor and head help a lot with respect to having a solid feeling of control over the cutting action. Mine does not have a spring or return mechanism for additional resistance when crosscutting, but from what I've gathered some of the later verions of this saw did. In my opinion it isn't necessary on this saw. I have used it for ripping extra long lumber as well (12'-14') for the odd bent lamination project. I don't use it for mitering simply because I find it is faster and more accurate for me to use a miter sled on my tablesaw. I have used it for wide dados and rabbets that aren't very deep, but it can be a bit nerve racking to do so- light cuts are the answer. I have a Hitachi 12" sliding compound miter saw with all kinds of laser and digital readouts on it and a 12" Delta standard compound miter saw as well, but still find myself using the radial arm saw a lot and wouldn't give it up. These saws come up for sale on a regular basis. I've seen them priced anywhere from $550 up to $1200 depending on the condition and how bad the owner wants to move it. I did a quick search this morning and between Craigslist and a couple other sites I saw at least ten for sale in various locations in the US. There are new versions and older versions of this saw, but I haven't looked closely at the new ones to see how they compare for quality.

[Bill White]

I've had my C'man since 1978. Its a cast iron model, and, once I learned how to set it up the right way, I've done about all you can do on a RAS with it. Don't let the detractors back ya down. Though I bought my first TS last year, my RAS is still in use for wide cross cuts and dados.
As a footnote-----set it up right and you'll be pleased.
Bill (who learned by trial and error)

[Greg Muller]

Good question Bob,
I really want it for a dedicated dado station. I find that many of my future projects are going to require the ability to cut 14 1/2" to 21" dado's. I don't like doing this on a table saw since it takes time to remove the splitter, which is also unsafe. I know that using a RAS can also be hazardous, but I clamp down pieces when using one for these length cuts.

Like I mentioned earlier, I've used RAS's for years, but that was before my previous home and shop burned to the ground (drunk crack addicts are now in jail) and it's been a few years, so I wanted some good specific recommendations.

Unfortunately, no one has been able to tell me brand, model number and year (or range of years). I can't tell if word of junk RAS's is a case of rumor mongering, or reality. I don't mind spending a little more for a good used saw, but would like to avoid paying the $1k tag for a new one that is dado-capable.

Jeff, What model and year is yours?

Greg

[Jim Becker]

Those are nice, but I would have to get one of the Super Heavy Duty versions to use a dado. I'm guessing they start upwards of a grand, right?

Well north of that, I believe. No harm in asking them, however!! Nice folks I hear. (I don't own a RAS nor have I used one other than once many years ago)

[Steveo O'Banion]

Cant beat it for x-cutting multiples at the same length if you have a good stop. It's faster for me to x-cut on the RAS that with the TS or MS, but I ONLY use it for x-cutting.

Ripping or moulding with one seems like to much of an adventure, but I've never tried to either. Nor do I want to attempt it.:D


Greg
I just gotta ask, why do you want one so bad? They take up a good amount of room for the utility they provide. They can be maintenance headaches with the need for adjustments to keep the blade square and even with the table. Their big claim to fame is crosscutting which can be done with a cms for most things. The other functions that they used to advertise, like ripping or molding are downright dangerous. The only thing I can think of that they would do better is running a dado on a really long piece of stock. That can be done with a router and a jig.

I suppose if you have the room and the time to fiddle, it may be worth it. I had one of the sears cast iron round tube ones and sold it off. Dont miss it at all. YMMV

[Steveo O'Banion]

I have a smaller 10" unisaw that I dedicate as my dado saw. I recognize that I have the LUXURY of space and an even bigger TS in my shop.

Steve

Steve


Good question Bob,
I really want it for a dedicated dado station. I find that many of my future projects are going to require the ability to cut 14 1/2" to 21" dado's. I don't like doing this on a table saw since it takes time to remove the splitter, which is also unsafe. I know that using a RAS can also be hazardous, but I clamp down pieces when using one for these length cuts.

Like I mentioned earlier, I've used RAS's for years, but that was before my previous home and shop burned to the ground (drunk crack addicts are now in jail) and it's been a few years, so I wanted some good specific recommendations.

Unfortunately, no one has been able to tell me brand, model number and year (or range of years). I can't tell if word of junk RAS's is a case of rumor mongering, or reality. I don't mind spending a little more for a good used saw, but would like to avoid paying the $1k tag for a new one that is dado-capable.

Jeff, What model and year is yours?

Greg

[Greg Muller]

I have a smaller 10" unisaw that I dedicate as my dado saw. I recognize that I have the LUXURY of space and an even bigger TS in my shop.

Steve

Steve


Steve,
All I can say is 'I am one jealous woodhack'. If I had the space, I would do the same, but I have just enough room to place a RAS next to my sliding miter saw station. That way, they can use the same infeed counterspace.

Greg

[Bob Feeser]

I bought a Craftsman "Professional" 10 inch radial arm saw for $525 early in 2000. I didn't know any better. The thing is a piece of junk. You can buy them used for $75 on eBay. It makes a great dado station, and that is what you said you would like to use one for.
It never keeps a setting, once you move it to a detent. So if you have it all calibrated perfectly, and the post is dead on 90, then you use the release knob, slide it over to the 45 degree detent, it locks in, and you confidently go ahead and make a 48 degree cut. :eek:
Forget about using it for ripping, it not only is dangerous as all get out, the setting you spent a lot of time calibrating, when you come back to the detent, it's not even close. Dangerous, dangerous, dangerous. Not only did Sears take my money when they sold this thing, now they want to take my fingers too. The number one thing you want to do to make an effective rip cut, is to get the blade parallel to the fence. That is impossible with this saw, unless you do a complete calibration, and never move it again, and even then it probably creeps a setting, not to metion that the saw is on the end of a long arm, which by the nature of it, could result in excess vibration. Junk, Junk, Junk.
So what I do is place mine with a 1/4" worth of dado stack, locked in the 90 degree position, and never move it. You can adjust the tension of the lock in handle, so snug it up real, real tight. So when I want to do dado's, I just go over and turn it on and dado away. No need to pull the table saw apart. Use an Incra rule to get your marks real accurate, and eyeball it, or make offset lines on the table. It is great for that.
So my advice is get a cheap Craftsman Professional 10" radial arm saw from some guy who used it for one year, got disgusted, and decided to give it away on eBay, make a dado station out of it, and spent the rest of your money, on a Makita Dual Rail Compound Slider 10" or 12" and buy a Rousseau mobile stand, there 2875, or 2875XL with stop system and measuring tape, and you will be ready to take on the world. I'm not saying those cast iron Delta, and quality radial arms aren't a nice thing to have, I just think the sliding miter Makita, Makita, Makita, will give you the accuracy you are looking for, just dialing it in, and cut, and the Sears RAS makes for a nice dadoing station. One last thing worth noting, the raise and lower on the Sears, does do the job, without altering the 90 degree setting, but as you lower it, it gets caught up a little, then jumps, so you have to over lower a little, then rise it up, just to your setting. So even as a Dado station it has it's limits, but if I had a grand to spend, do what I said earlier. If you have more than a grand to spend, close to 2 grand or more, and want a quality RAS, that is a nice option as well. I'm happy with the Makita setup, and the Sears dado station. It's great for that.

[Louis Rucci]

You beat me to the punch. I've been drooling over their products for the past yeat.

Of course if you want a rebuilt DeWalt, here's the place to look http://www.wolfemachinery.com

Both are pricey.

[Louis Rucci]

Model I was looking at started at > $3000.00

[Jerome Hanby]

I bought a Shopsmith to fill in the blanks for sander, drill press, lathe, bandsaw, and jointer. I've never used it's table saw, but am thinking of using it as a dedicated dado station. Since I can't see ever needing an angle other than 90 degrees, the "weird" tilting table would never come into play.

[Louis Rucci]

If you don't mind using a router for your dado's. Give Eurekazone's EZ system a look. They're in the manufacturer's forum and he has lots of videos in You Tube showing how it works.

Much cheaper than a good RAS.

[Greg Muller]

Sounds like I'm getting a confirmation of the RAS as a dedicated dado station. Good, that's what I wanted- put a 1/4 - 3/4 dado on it at 90* and never change it for as long as I live...

NOW, if I could just get a good BRAND, YEAR, and MODEL NUMBER LIKE I ASKED FOR IN THE FIRST POST, I WOULD BE HAPPY!!!! I would go from :mad: to :D...

I love you guys, but getting a straight answer is like trying to pull grown-in barbed wire out of a crotch of curly maple...

Greg

[Rob Russell]

NOW, if I could just get a good BRAND, YEAR, and MODEL NUMBER LIKE I ASKED FOR IN THE FIRST POST, I WOULD BE HAPPY!!!! I would go from :mad: to :D...

Greg,

You can look at any Delta/Rockwell 12" and larger RAS. Any year. Any model #.

Is that simple enough?

Rob

[Bill Webber]

I suppose if you have the room and the time to fiddle, it may be worth it. I had one of the sears cast iron round tube ones and sold it off. Dont miss it at all. YMMV

The good ones, the old Dewalts, rarely go out of adjustment. I have two from the '50s. I've had them more than 20 years. I went over the adjustments when I got them but haven't touched them since, not even after a move. It was during the '70s and later when all of them started going down hill. There were a lot of liability claims, many were made overseas, even Dewalt went caput and was bought out by B&D. B&D sold everything from the Lancaster plant off to the company that markets them now as The Original. (B&D sold all the forms for the casting and all the spare parts, but they kept the Dewalt name.)

Here's a side story. The bearings on my 10-inch were getting dry. they weren't real bad but I knew they would need to be replaced. I ordered the bearings from Wolfe Machinery. Well, they kicked around for a while. I was reluctant to start the job having had some not-great experience with other bearings. I decided I'd look around and see if there was some local company that had the tools (bearing pullers) to do the job. I found a motor rebuild company in DC that advertised "complete motor rebuilds and drove there one day. It was just a non-descript building in a run down neighborhood. I couldn't find a door marked 'office' so I pounded on a couple doors but nothing happened. As I was walking away, the last door open and I got a "whaddya want" from a guy sticking his head out. I said I needed to get a couple bearings put on an armature. He glanced at my truck and sez, "in the truck..?". I nodded and he sez, "need a hand?" I guess I should have picked up on that but I said no, and retrieved the armature from the front seat. Inside the building they were rebuilding motors, REALLY BIG MOTORS! Like motor generator sets! Pretty amusing at the time. My puny armature was so small they didn't have puller that small. A guy simply tack welded a couple plates to the old bearings and pressed them out. 20 minutes and $30 bucks and I was on my way.

Anyway, there's not a lot to go wrong with the old ones. If you can find one that has been at least stored in-doors for the last 50 - 60 years, the most it will need is bearings if that. Mine still had the original maple table. I love 'em. The rest of the story is on my web page.

Bill W.

[Tim Sgrazzutti]

Sounds like I'm getting a confirmation of the RAS as a dedicated dado station. Good, that's what I wanted- put a 1/4 - 3/4 dado on it at 90* and never change it for as long as I live...

NOW, if I could just get a good BRAND, YEAR, and MODEL NUMBER LIKE I ASKED FOR IN THE FIRST POST, I WOULD BE HAPPY!!!! I would go from :mad: to :D...

I love you guys, but getting a straight answer is like trying to pull grown-in barbed wire out of a crotch of curly maple...

Greg


Greg, here is a short list of DeWalt models that would satisfy you. Homeowner models MBF or 925, contractor models GW, GWI, 1030, and 7790. The alpha named saws were made in the 50's, and the numerical names were made in the 60's, except the 7790 which ran until around 1980.

Pick up a copy of the Mr. Sawdust book http://www.mrsawdust.com, a bargain at twice the price for the information it contains.

Happy hunting!

Tim

[Ed Jolin]

Hi Greg -
Here's my 0.02.
If you want a smaller saw, the Dewalt MBC, any year. It's a 8 or 9" saw.
If you want a bigger saw, the Dewalt GWI, any year. It's a 10" saw.
If you want a bigger saw, the Dewalt 7790, any year. It's a 12" saw.
If you want a real big saw, the Dewalt GE, any year. It's a 14 or 16" saw.


I am not an expert, but I have 3 Dewalts (I've become an addict). The 7790 was my first; decent 12" saw. I had a 7730, which is the 7790's little brother, a 10" saw. OK, but not too stout so I sold it. I picked up a GWI real cheap. That is one heavy saw; the column probably weighs 3x the column on the 7790, and the GWI is only a 10" saw. The MBC is the GWI's little brother. And the GE is it's big brother - I'd love to find one. I have a Dewalt 925H, but like the 7730, it's just not as beefy as the GWI.

All my saws were from CL and under $125.

From what I've read and seen, the years on Dewalts dont' matter so much. I tend to see a lot more posts re: certain years of Craftsman saws being good, but I have no comment, other than that I am glad I happened into the Dewalt first. There are some other forums that cater to the Dewalts more, and have more RAS information.

I will second the suggestion to get a copy of Mr. Sawdust's book (no affiliation).

-Ed

[Michael Gibbons]

Greg, Go to the Original Saw websitehttp://originalsaw.com The saw #3512-01 is probably what you might want. I will assume that you have 1 phase 220 volt so that is the number you'd need. Hopefully I'll get mine this year. They don't have the prices on the website like they once did, but if I remember correctly they go for about $3500.00.

[Louis Brandt]

Greg,
I have an early 1960's Craftsman 10 inch RAS, model number 113.29401, and I love it. I've never had even a near accident with it. It has the cast iron arm, and I wouldn't be without it.
Louis

[John Shuk]

You could always use a guided router to cut dados. It is probably alot more accurate and safer.

[James Manning]

Picked this up off of craigslist in Jacksonville, Fla a couple of weeks ago, broke it down and hauled it 90 miles back home. It came with the original stand with castors from 1966, I put it back on it's stand and changed the blade and ran a test cut just to see..........and wow....dead on! I looked for awhile and like you knew I wanted an older cast iron beast and this one is in excellent shape...............:D

They are out there keep looking I got this one for 175.00

Craftsman 1966 model #113.29410

8002380024800258002680027

[Jonathan Spool]

Hi Greg,
I used to use a radial arm saw for building everything from coffee tables to complete kitchens. From my experience, don't touch any Craftsman saw as they won't hold adjustments well enough over time, and the errors will cost you a LOT in ruined wood. The only RAS that I have had good experience with was a Dewalt 7790, and a Delta/Rockwell 12" Turret (RAS-12). Both of these are excellent with the turret saw having the edge over the Dewalt.
I only use my RAS now for cutting dados on long pieces, but would actually prefer some sort of cross cutting router tool on rails to do the same job, as the RAS eats up too much space. JMHO.
Jonathan

[Jason White]

I just bought a used DeWalt that was built in 1980. Stay away from those ones -- they're not as good as the older, heavy cast-iron ones. Mine couldn't hold a setting to save it's life (and yes, I've read a couple of books on properly setting up and using them). I'll probably keep it though just for quick and dirty dado cuts with a dado stack.

Jason



ENOUGH!!!
I have been drooling over every radial arm saw deal I see on Craigslist for the past year, but I keep hearing about how some are good, some are bad, some are dangerous, and some are works of art. The problem is I never hear any specifics.

I've heard the older DeWalts are okay, the Craftsman 113-series from the '70's is good, and the 1980's flat top something-or-other is awesome.

This is what I want;

Give me specific brand, model number, and years that rate a 9 or better (on a scale of 1 - 10, 10 being the best thing since God invented wood). The two requirements I ask is that your recommendation be able to handle a dado blade and that there are specs on it somewhere on the internet that I can reference.

I know I am going to get conflicting reports, but that's what happens when one asks for opinions...

I have already heard/read every warning ever written about RAS's, so please don't waste too much time trying to scare me off.

I think we can all learn something here... and I can soon finally buy a RAS that is recommended by "the Creekers".


Thank you all!!!!

Greg

[Jason White]

Greg -- these folks know everything about RAS's and can help you...

http://login.prospero.com/dir-login/index.asp?webtag=woodbutcher&lgnDST=http%3A%2F%2Fforums%2Edelphiforums%2Ecom%2F woodbutcher




Good question Bob,
I really want it for a dedicated dado station. I find that many of my future projects are going to require the ability to cut 14 1/2" to 21" dado's. I don't like doing this on a table saw since it takes time to remove the splitter, which is also unsafe. I know that using a RAS can also be hazardous, but I clamp down pieces when using one for these length cuts.

Like I mentioned earlier, I've used RAS's for years, but that was before my previous home and shop burned to the ground (drunk crack addicts are now in jail) and it's been a few years, so I wanted some good specific recommendations.

Unfortunately, no one has been able to tell me brand, model number and year (or range of years). I can't tell if word of junk RAS's is a case of rumor mongering, or reality. I don't mind spending a little more for a good used saw, but would like to avoid paying the $1k tag for a new one that is dado-capable.

Jeff, What model and year is yours?

Greg

[Bob Slater]

I have a Canadian made Dewalt B&D. It appears to be well made, so I hope it is not the one described as junk a few posts up.. I use my Makita slider way more. The RAS gets dusted a lot so far

[Jason White]

Now simmer down, Greg. I feel your pain.

I just bought this book, which has specific model recommendations (sorry I don't have it with me or I'd share with you)....

http://www.mrsawdust.com/

Nobody knew more about older DeWalts than this guy.

Best of luck.

Jason


Sounds like I'm getting a confirmation of the RAS as a dedicated dado station. Good, that's what I wanted- put a 1/4 - 3/4 dado on it at 90* and never change it for as long as I live...

NOW, if I could just get a good BRAND, YEAR, and MODEL NUMBER LIKE I ASKED FOR IN THE FIRST POST, I WOULD BE HAPPY!!!! I would go from :mad: to :D...

I love you guys, but getting a straight answer is like trying to pull grown-in barbed wire out of a crotch of curly maple...

Greg

[John Bailey]

I'm a radial arm saw fan. I used mine for everything. The list you got from Ed and Tim are excellent. I would tell you any of the "Aardvark" style DeWalts are some of the best. Check out the Old Wood Working Machine site (OWWM) and you can see a lot of information on radial arm saws.

I used a DeWalt MBF 9" model for years, never touched it after first set-up. I sold it to get a bigger one, moved it in the back of my pick-up 275 miles, and the new owner didn't have to tune it up at all.


I used it for cross-cut, rip, dado, scarfing and anything else I had to do. It never bogged down and never went out of adjustment. I found it to take up much less room than a table saw.


I think a lot has to do with what you'll be using it for. I build boats, paddles and mountain dulcimers along with an assortment of home type projects. Notice I don't build furniture, and a radial arm saw may not be the best for that.

Get one, for what ever reason, you'll like it.


John

[Peter Quinn]

Brand DeWalt

Year 1949

Model GR-42, 14" blade, 4 1/4" depth of cut, 24" cross cut, approximate weight combined, 750#, motor 17A@220V (and they used to call that a 2HP! Now they call it a 'True Two'. I call it no joke.


This is my RAS, got it for free as a basket case, spent a few million hours and a few hundred dollars making her go with invaluable help from God, Wolfe Machinery and my electrical engineer FIL. Not pretty but very functional in the ways that count. The blue box on the wall holds an electronic starter, as the original capacitor start was shot, so my FIL 'borrowed' this one from his employer. It was switchable on the fly from 110 to 220, as it was considered a 'Portable' unit to be used with whatever power was available on site. Thank goodness for the SCMS, wouldn't want to carry this around with me.

A 'Good' RAS is going to cost you more new than a good cabinet saw, more moving parts, much more complex design. A 'Good' RAS is going to be highly repeatable and accurate. All the junk sold under the name RAS has given this tool a bad name, and I don't think you can buy a good new RAS in a size appropriate for most small professional or hobby shops, so the used market is your only hope. Even the smallest Original saw is a big unit I'd say having seen them up close. I barely even use mine for a fraction of its capacity, but I do a lot with rough stock int he 8/4+ range, and there is no better tool to cross cut such material quickly and safely.

Here's a few picks of a good RAS. My neighbor had a Northfield that made mine look puny.

[John Bailey]

Here's a few picks of a good RAS. My neighbor had a Northfield that made mine look puny.

Nice saw Peter!!

John

[Peter Quinn]

Thanks John. She's my mascot. Also my only connection to old iron. I have a few delta tools in from the late 80's but they don't really count. I envy your growing collection! Nothing like 60+ years of age to make a piece of iron very stable!

Oh, that saw makes a great drafting table when not being used to cut wood!:D

[Rick Hubbard]

I did exactly what you propose to do- I bought a used early 70's Craftsman RAS that I use for nothing other than to cut rabbets and dados..

True, it does take up a lot of space, but with a little creativity I was able to incorporate mine into one end of the counter where my miter saw lives (I also fitted it with a mobile cabinet so I can move it if it is REALLY necessary).

True, it does require lots of attention in order to keep it in alignment (both square and level), but even at that it is a lot less hassle than setting up the TS with a dado blade or even setting up to cut with a router (FYI, I ALWAYS make a test cut on scrap stock to make sure the river gnomes didn't get into the shop when I wasn't looking and tweak the saw out of alignment).

The key is to buy right (a good one can be had for $50 -$75 up in this neck of the woods).

Now, one more thing- if you find one of these older Craftsman saws the model number will begin with with the digits 113.1 or 113.2. That is the starting place. if the saw SN starts with either of these sets of numbers then you are in positive territory. The next step is to use our friend Google to search on the entire serial number- that should get you someplace that will let you ID the year. Look for pre-1975.

Yet another thing- many of these older saws (manufactured by Emerson) have verifiably unsafe blade guards that do not have cover the entire blade. That is a very bad thing! Emerson used to have a free replacement program for the guards but I'm not sure they still do.

IMHO, if you are palnning to do nothing with a RAS other than cut dado's, forget about the really high end saws and just go with what's affordable.

RICK

[Rick Potter]

1980 (?) DeWalt 7790.

It is a 12" saw, takes dado's and keeps it's setting.

I also never move it from 90 degrees. I made a new table with a removable insert for the blade kerf....several years ago, and have not had to change it yet, it still looks like it only has one pass.

Another saw, which I had and recommend was a 1980 or so DeWalt 7740. It was 10", and looks identical to the 7790.

Here's my oddysey of RAS's. Started with a Montgomery Ward Shopmate used in 1966, moved up to the 7740 new, about 1980 and was perfectly satisfied. A tool store owner who knew I liked the Delta 12" turret model dropped by one day in the early 90's, and said he had a buyer for my 7740, and gave me $600 trade in for the turret job. I brought it home, set it up and decided it was not for me.

Luckily he took it back because I bought the smaller new style Delta RAS from him instead. I used it a couple years, and hated it. It was designed NOT to take a dado, but I modified the blade housing to do it. Meanwhile I found an old round top DeWalt, and planned to use it, all the time wishing I had never let go of the 7740. I got the round top all cleaned up and ready to go, when a friend asked me I wanted to buy his 7790. YES, OH YES, sez I, and picked it up immediately. $300.

He warned me that it would not hold a setting. He had bought it new about 10-15 years earlier, used it a year, didn't like it, and it sat in the back of his garage since then. I brought it home, and found that none of the locking screws were tight, some only finger tight. I went through the set up procedure, and haven't adjusted it since.

I sits next to my chop saw, with a common fence with a sliding stop. Only use it for straight cuts. I am eventually going to get another 7790 or 7740 and put it at the other end set up for dado's. I have recently seen one of each on the local CL in the $250-300 range, and they looked clean.

How's that for specific?

Rick Potter

[Chris Barnett]

I have the C'man 12 inch RAS like Jeff's. It is fine for cross cuts, or for rips, or for compound cuts of every type, but when it is returned to the original setting, it is out of adjustment. If setup and consistently used for 90 degree cuts, it is very strong and repeatable. Moved mine out of shop to the garage last week to make more space for other tools. Might use someday to rough size plywood or whatever. Mine though is missing the little red end cap on shaft opposite blade :). Installed a chuck and now cannot find the cap.

[Homer Faucett]

For a dedicated dado machine, I would recommend a DeWalt GA or GE, pre-1960's. You'll never need more machine--ever. I have a 1943 DeWalt GE 16" 5 horsepower, single phase machine with newly machined ways and new bearings for $375. Watch Craigslist. I saw a nearly identical saw at a sale three months later for $450. Deals are around if you look hard and long. I wouldn't part with mine for three times what I paid.

You just don't want to move them often, as they weigh 800 lbs. I'll challenge any detractor of the radial arm saw to come use this machine, and they'll eat their words. Dead accurate. Doesn't move when set. Built to last lifetimes. The MBF or others are good machines, but may not have a big enough motor to be used for a dedicated dado machine. Good luck.

http://inlinethumb16.webshots.com/44495/2890858690053973826S600x600Q85.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2890858690053973826flwpEJ)

http://inlinethumb03.webshots.com/16514/2618696710053973826S600x600Q85.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2618696710053973826rZjKJH)

Those are offcuts from a 4 x 4, just to give you some scale.

[Randy Rose]

Like you, I wanted sufficient arbor length for a dedicated dado station, I have a Freud Dial-a dado set and the micro adjust mechanism takes up a lot of shaft. T/S won`t handle the full stack. Bought a Craftsman 12" ( # 113.29520 / $100 / not sure of the year) and it fills the bill. Made a mobile stand and backed it up to a mortiser so neither of these "occasional" tools hog up too much space. JMO

EDIT: works well for dadoes in bookcase sides or creating tenons on rails too long/tall to stand in the tenon jig

[James Williams 007]

I wanted a RAS for running dadoes and doing lap joints, things of that nature. So I was on the "list" and happened upon an old 1950's Dewalt GWI 10 inch beauty. I have since fallen in love with everything about the saw. All the good saws being made today are modeled after these saws. I am currenlty restoring mine with original paint and so on but I have thrown in a pic of what it will look like. Here are some good links to sites with more info on these Dewalts.
http://www.owwm.com/home.aspx
http://www.mrsawdust.com/
http://forums.delphiforums.com/woodbutcher/start
http://www.wolfemachinery.com/

[Larry Edgerton]

I have not seen a mention of Omga, and in the price range the OP is looking in it is my choice. I have a 26" RM600 in my shop that I am happy with. I looked at all of the possibilitys, side by side at a Grand Rapids dealer and the modern Omga was my choice. It was much more sturdy, and by sturdy I mean less movement of the head than the Original Saw or the big Delta. It has a far superior way of holding the head in place, and although it weighs much less it shows that weight just for weights sake is not always a benefit.

Worth a look. I want one of their chop saws next.......

[Homer Faucett]

I have not seen a mention of Omga, and in the price range the OP is looking in it is my choice.

I guess I missed where the OP indicated that he was willing to pay $3,000 for a RAS. Last I saw, he was flinching at the thought of $1,000. Am I missing something, as your model lists for $2,996 on the manufacturer's web site?

http://omgainc.com/productfamily_detail.php?cid=1&sub_id=2&pid=2

[Peter Quinn]

Well there you have it, Omga, another good RAS still being manufactured. For a base price of just $3000 you too may have one. This is clearly made for the professional shop or very well financed hobby shop no? Seemed to me the OP wanted to know specific models of RAS that users considered good, and a list is building here of either fairly rare or very expensive machines to look for or choose from.

My Dad has a 1982 Craftsman RAS....that is NOT one of the good ones. I have encouraged him to throw that scary thing in a dumpster or take it to recycling, but he resists. Recently got him a compound miter station, I figure it won't be long before he can't remember why he is keeping that thing around.

[Stan Urbas]

Well...you could just go to "good and current (http://www.originalsaw.com/)"........

I did go out there - nice site, but no prices and no where to order. So where the heck do you get one? Only one trade show listed on their "schedule", and I'm a LONG ways from Las Vegas!

[Don Brillhart]

If you want a single purpose, eg. dado, station, look for an old,circa 1960's, Sears. I have a 1965 Sears all metal(cast iron) model that I bought used in 1965. I used it for years(carefully!!) for all the functions Sears advertised it as being capable of performing. Now, I have retired it to the single use of supporting and powering a Performax 22/44" drum sander and it still works great! You can find one on Ebay for less than $100.00 if you can haul it yourself.
Don Brillhart

[Bill White]

Sounds like I'm getting a confirmation of the RAS as a dedicated dado station. Good, that's what I wanted- put a 1/4 - 3/4 dado on it at 90* and never change it for as long as I live...

NOW, if I could just get a good BRAND, YEAR, and MODEL NUMBER LIKE I ASKED FOR IN THE FIRST POST, I WOULD BE HAPPY!!!! I would go from :mad: to :D...

I love you guys, but getting a straight answer is like trying to pull grown-in barbed wire out of a crotch of curly maple...

Greg

Craftsman-1978-113.23112
Emerson model NOT on recall list.
So there!!!
I've been well served by this old beast. Contrary to what others say, mine is accurate when properly indexed (as I stated earlier).
Bill

[John Eaton]

Look for a used Dewalt 790 or 7790 as already proposed - it's probably the last of the "good" Dewalts and they were made into the 80's - the newer ones are black while the older are gray. The arm has a flat top and made of solid cast-iron. You'll want one that has the elevation crank on the rear of the arm above the post (I believe they all have this configuration which was changed with the 7770 but I could be mistaken). The later ones have "3.5 HP" on the motor (but basically it's the same motor on earlier 790s as well) - this motor is highly regarded as one of the best home-use motors that Dewalt offered. This model was sold as a 12" Contractors saw and some have Contractors Saw or similar on the arm. There's a "pro" version with a different set of numbers (3460? or something similar) that was marketed to cabinet shops/industry but is basically the same saw (may be 3-phase).

The earlier round top Dewalts are great saws but it's hard to find something that'll take a 12" blade (or larger) that's not 3-phase. Of the earlier saws marketed to home-users, I like the MBF quite a bit as the motor has more torque (there's an MBC that's rated at 1/2 HP as opposed to the MBF with 3/4 HP). These smaller saws can use as large as 9 or 10 inch blades but most owners prefer a smaller diameter (you lose cutting depth but gain in cutting ability).

I'm not an expert on RASes and I've never owned a Sears/Craftsman or Delta. However from some of the old timers I talk to around Atlanta, they generally shy away from both, even the older models. I do know fans of them but in general the guys I know that trade in shop equipment don't touch Craftsman at all and only go for the heavier Deltas - don't get me wrong I'm actually a fan of both companies' tools and own a fair amount of both old Craftsman and classic Delta so I'm just imparting what I've heard. There's something about the turret design in the Delta that makes these old timers go for Dewalts as well when they're looking for an RAS for a production shop. I couldn't tell you the details.

There are some older models that are also highly regarded - the Walker-Turners, etc that in my opinion would be worth examining - however you may have limited success in parts availability if they need to be refurbished. That Dewalt 790 was built for many years so there are a lot of them around - plus parts in general are still available (as far as bearings, etc). Just some things to think about.

-- John

[Steve Rozmiarek]

Have fun with your "new" old RAS. I bought an old Walker Turner to fix up, then bought something far better. Have you considered a sliding table saw? Gives you far more capacity. Just throwing out ideas.

[Jeffery Hawkins]

I have and still using a Sears Craftman that I purchased new in 1973, model 113.23100. Arm is cast iron. Have had no problems, just minor maint. Will handle dado with no problems.

[Joe Jensen]

This older 14" Dewalt is the best. Still sold as "The Original Saw Company" for around $4000. I paid $700 15 years ago. I have mine set up with a Biesemeyer crosscut station and it's set for 90 degree cuts only. I set it 15 years ago with the 5 cut method to within .001" and when I checked again last year it was still withing .001". Mine is 3HP 1PH but they made 5 and 7.5 HP too. Mine was built in the 1970s. If you look for one, watch that the machined ways in the arm are not worn. Many of them were used with bad bearings that wore the ways, and remachining the arm costs $500 or more.

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w99/AZEngineer/RASclose.jpg

[Brian Myers]

Just to throw in my 2 cents. If you want to use a Dado blade check the arbor length. I have a RedStar 40a (12"), nice saw, plenty of power (true 1.5hp) but they have a short arbor. I believe that RedStar made an adapter at some point to use a dado blade. I also have a Dewalt 1030 (10" AMF era 1.5 hp) flat top. Holds its adjustments just fine but the ways are worn out ( something to check on all used RAS) so the blade dips in the middle of its arm. I have aquired a Dewalt GWI (round top) arm to to replace the worn out arm. Dewalt/AMF replaced the GWI with the 1030 and the early production runs of the 1030 started with the leftover GWI arms. From what others have told me the 1030`s motor is the better made of the two. I also had a B&D/Dewalt 7790 (12" listed as 3hp (developed is my guess)) that I got at auction for $8. The carriage assembly was broken in two but all I wanted were the legs for the 1030. The motor says 3hp but it use less amps then the 1030. This saw is far cheaper made (and lighter) then the 1030. If you are looking for a Dewalt, I would go for a 1030 or earlier model. Skip anything from the B&D era as they really dropped the quality of the line.

Good Hunting
Brian

[Todd Crawford]

"Yet another thing- many of these older saws (manufactured by Emerson) have verifiably unsafe blade guards that do not have cover the entire blade. That is a very bad thing! Emerson used to have a free replacement program for the guards but I'm not sure they still do."

As of the beginnning of this year, they still do. I picked one up dirt cheap and stumbled across the replacement program while looking for a manual. The replacement kit comes with a new guard, new table, and was really easy to install. I think I found my saw to be a 1977 model, if I remember correctly, but once I took the time to set mine up, I haven't had any problem keeping it set right. I even use mine to rip a good bit of material.

[Greg Sznajdruk]

I have my father 1956 B&D Dewalt. One of these days I'm going to align it for cross cuts then MIG weld the $5#@ thing.

Greg

[Joe Jensen]

I have my father 1956 B&D Dewalt. One of these days I'm going to align it for cross cuts then MIG weld the $5#@ thing.

Greg

No need to mig it, just tighten the bolts that adjust the slip fit for the column. That's how I did mine

[James Boster]

I have a couple of the older Dewalt GE's. Acctually have owned 5. I am currently selling one of mine if you are interested. For the best dado saw make sure on the Dewalts you get at least the medium are which will allow a 24" crosscut. Here is my latest one.




http://www.owwm.com/photoindex/detail.aspx?id=8147

7 1/2 hp AND Will cut 6" in one pass. This saw was very recently rebuilt by Wolfe machinery so it is as new condition.

[Peter Quinn]

I have a couple of the older Dewalt GE's. Acctually have owned 5. I am currently selling one of mine if you are interested. For the best dado saw make sure on the Dewalts you get at least the medium are which will allow a 24" crosscut. Here is my latest one.


How much at auction? Looks like a nice machine! Crank feed for light ferrous metals? I guess cutting wood on a machine capable of cutting steel is hardly a challenge for the tool?

[Bill White]

Looks like ya can cut a Buick in half with that beast.
Bill

[John Danner]

It took a while but I found this thread. I wanted to thank all who participated. I was using a Craftsman; from the 70's or so and it was underpowered and I had to be careful not to move the blade too fast or it would bind. I had been looking on the list for a couple of years for something better that actually fit into my price range and I found it a couple days ago. I bought a DeWalt MBC in pretty good shape for $75. I plan on replacing the power cord since it is frayed in several spots. I do not have the free time, skill, or money to do a complete restoration but may do that down the road. I do want to replace what may be needed though. When things are tightened down there is no play anywhere I could notice and the motor assembly slides nicely back and forth and doesn't seem to have play it that either. I thought that the bearings on the motor may be all that I should replace but I found a tutorial online for that and it would require some tools I do not have and may be a bit more than I want to take on. I turned it on once to see if it made any odd noise that would drive me to replace the bearings but it sounds remarkably smooth; almost gives you chills how nice it sounds ;). Anyone have advice about replacing parts now versus later? I haven't made a single cut yet since the fence/table are absent. What should I look for that would point out problem areas that should be addressed before using? On a side note I saw some nice pictures of a full restoration and can't believe how nice some of these turn out! Thanks.

[Mark Boyette]

I have a 1968 DeWalt I got from work (green model 12").. free to boot. It's a very very good saw and stays true. I don't see them up for sale often but keep and eye on CL and you might get lucky. the newer craftsmans are really junk so stay clear of that.
http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r295/rockyrivermark/shop009.jpg
Mark.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

look for an old Delta Rockwell in fair to good shape. You don't need a model number all of 'em were bulletproof.

The problem with a RAS is all about Sturdy construction. If the manufacturer is trying to reach a "consumer" demographic, chances are they will make of from balsa wood, paper mache, and pixi dust and label it "PROFESSIONAL GRADE SUPER HEAVY DUTY."

And then when the rotating swing joint gives the arm flexes and the saw leaps up over the work and comes blazing at the operator there are very unpleasant moments when body parts don't all go home together.

If however the market demographic they are trying to reach is the commercial and trades markets then it'll be an awful lot more expensive.