Very Frustrated, Sanded a low spot need help

[Jason Scott]

Hey guys,

So I went with a leaf inlay for my coffee table to cover up the two knots in the middle...I wish I would have picked something easier then a multi-sided leaf for my first try at inlay. Anyway, the fit was ok, I will have to do some gap repairs to my inlay, but I sanded a low spot in middle of the table about 2"X3" or so with my random orbit. I was trying to knock down the high inlay and boy did I...I am sooooo pissed off at myself you just wouldn't believe it...Only way I can think to fix it, is put in another inlay, or flip the top over, or just leave it alone and go forward...Was wondering if you all had any suggestions?

[keith ouellette]

I can't see what the problem is other than the slight gap ( and fyi, The two other home inlays I have seen in person both had small gaps and these guys were seasoned wood workers so don't be to upset) but if you have created a low spot I would feather the whole thing out by enlarging the area slightly.
As far as the gap goes I would do a test with some matching wood filler on a scrap set up and see how it looks stained. It won't be perfect but might be better.

[Jason Scott]

Keith thanks, the gap is actually filled with CA and sawdust, so it looks like an outline, I really don't know how this will look finished and if it should be an acceptable filler for the gaps? Are any gaps expected when doing inlay? I have only seen David Marks do it on Woodworks and his was perfect to .00000000000001"...I went really slow and took my time, and I was unable to get it perfect, I don't know how anyone would, I know people do, but man I don't know how. I have filled gaps in dovetails before with the CA/sawdust method and it worked well, although it always is darker than the surrounding wood. I want this to look like it is professional, so have I already screwed up the inlay by having a small gap here and there? Is the CA/dust method acceptable, do the pros ever have to do that, or do they get it perfect everytime?

The low spot is off to the right of the leaf, I included a photo of what I think I might do and wanted to see what you all thought...I thought maybe I would do the same leaf, just flipped over and smaller to cover the low spot, and do it in purple heart? No one would know if they didn't run there hand right over the spot, but I will know and that is driving me crazy. Let me know what you all think.

[keith ouellette]

I'm sure some people get it perfect but it must take a lot of practice. What about sanding the area more and fanning out the low spot so it is spread over a wider area. I just accidently put a gouge in a panel and sanded it out buy doing this. You can hardly feel it and you can't see it unless you put a straight edge over it.

[Jason Scott]

Keith, I see what you are saying, but that won't totally take care of it, more of just a mask...I guess I really wanted this to be perfect, I am not off to a great start :rolleyes:

[keith ouellette]

If you have the same problem getting the second inlay to fit like you did the first it will look much worse because it will be on the lighter color wood and i don't know how the stems will look crossed. If thats the route you should take I would start over by making a larger inlay right where the old one is.
Do one more on a scrap piece first to refine your technique. I know first hand what its like to plan for perfect and fall short.

[Jason Scott]

Keith,

Your right, I didn't even think of that...If I did have any gap then it would not look right filled with the CA method b/c of all the different colors...Guess maybe I'lljust try to fan it out like you recommended...I'm just pissed b/c now there is a mistake, and know matter how nice it comes out that mistake will be there...

[keith ouellette]

How deep is the low spot now?

[Jason Scott]

Um, I'm guessing about 1/16" at the lowest, I didn't put a feeler gauge , just looked at it with a straight edge once I felt the spot...

[keith ouellette]

When you made the inlay were the edges very square. To put it another way... when you sand this out you are going down that 1/16" depth right a the inlay. will it make the gap wider (probably not but its something to think about)?
if the inlays gap won't get any wider then I would start with a heavy grit and work my way to 220 or 320. as you move to the lighter grit enlarge the area you are sanding till the whole thing is smooth. You won't even be able to feel the mistake when your done.
Hears a tip. It will take more time but DO NOT push the edge of the sander
down to try and make things go faster. You will end up with half circles you won't see till you finish the wood. Keep the pad flat. I had to learn this the hard way though most people probably already knew it.

[Joe Chritz]

Your definition of perfect (looking at your own project) and everyone else's is most likely considerably different.

Feather the spot or make a larger inlay and don't mention it. 99% of the people wouldn't ever be able to spot it, even if you mentioned it to them.

Try to strive for attainable goals. An entire project without something you aren't happy with isn't realistically going to happen. A big part of being a good woodworker is being able to fix little ewwwboos.

Joe

[Russ Filtz]

Just wondering, would using a cabinet scraper have prevented this? I'm not that good with a scraper and with all those angles on the leaf, I might be scared to try.

[Todd Bin]

I see I am not the only one around here that is anal about stuff. A little gap here, a little dip there and it drives me nuts but when my friends or family look at the piece they never even notice and when I point it out they still don't quite know what I am saying.

Anyway...

Take the top off and take it to a cabinet shop with a wide drum sander. pass the whole top though (maybe 3 times at 1/64 each time) and it will be flat again. This should not cost you very much at all.

[Jason Scott]

Just wondering, would using a cabinet scraper have prevented this? I'm not that good with a scraper and with all those angles on the leaf, I might be scared to try.

Russ, I tried with a scraper but it was just too much to remove, another mistake on my part, the channel for the inlay wasn't as deep as I wanted it to be, so it stood really proud, that is why I switched to the sander.


I see I am not the only one around here that is anal about stuff. A little gap here, a little dip there and it drives me nuts but when my friends or family look at the piece they never even notice and when I point it out they still don't quite know what I am saying.

Anyway...

Take the top off and take it to a cabinet shop with a wide drum sander. pass the whole top though (maybe 3 times at 1/64 each time) and it will be flat again. This should not cost you very much at all.

Todd, awesome idea, will they have a drum sander that is 22" wide? How do I go about finding a place to do that?

Thanks,

Jason

[Jason Scott]

Hey! Just got off the phone with a custom cabinet shop, he said it would cost me 20 bucks to run it through, is that a good deal or am I getting screwed? I have never done this before so obviously that seems high to me, but maybe it is a great deal? Please let me know,

Thanks,

Jason

[Todd Bin]

Most cabinet shops charge in increments of 15 minutes worth of work. The job you have will take less then 15 minutes but that is the minimum. The guy across the street from me is $90 per hour or $22.5 for 15 min I think. So $20 sounds good.

The nice thing is you know it is going to be dead flat when you are done. Since you said the inlay was shallower than you would have liked I would be careful about making a sanding pass that actually sands the inlay. Put some pencil marks on the wood around the inlay so you know when you are close.

[Sam Yerardi]

Jason,
If 1/16" is the lowest then I would try a scraper rather than a sander to get it level again. Have you ever tried one?

[Jason Scott]

Thanks Todd, I don't know if I stated it wrong, but the inlay was proud and now I've sanded it level, and the low spot is in the walnut table.

Sam, yes I used a scraper, but honestly I don't see how I could scrape a whole 2X4' table to get a 2"X3" low spot out. I think I'd rather just pass it through the sander.

As a side note, any of you who do inlays, is it normal to have a small gap here and there that has to be filled, or is this considered "amature crap"?

Thanks again,

Jason

[keith ouellette]

Its good idea. It will take the guy a minute but in the time it takes to drive down there you could sand it by hand. If the depression you have to make bothers you so much then I would spend the $20

[Dave Watkins]

$20 seems pretty fair to me. Think about how long it would take you to try to sand it all with a ROS and chances are it wouldn't be uniformly flat. Spend the money and have no regrets, it already looks great and will be around forever (do the math, $20 divided by forever is like nothing per year....)

Plus you'll get to check out a cabinet shop and maybe establish some kind of relationship with the guy.

Good luck, let us know how it turns out.

Dave

[Greg Cole]

The low spot may or may not be that noticeable depending on the finish chosen. But the knowing there's a boo boo is something we all have with almost any & everything we build, least something I'm quite familiar with. It's a learning experience trying new things, and keeps projects a challenge.
I'd spend the $20 bucks for a trip through the belt sander. Also agree with meeting the guys at the cabinet shop, ya never know what connection you can make or what you can pick up by osmosis being around guys who do it all day every day....
Personally, I'd most likely have planed it pretty close to level with the field around the inlay and then scraped it. Then again I'll do alot of things to avoid sanding through the grits on about anything.
How about a pic of the whole project?
Cheers.
Greg

[Thom Sturgill]

From art training I learned that an artist is ALWAYS his own worst critic because he knows how far his execution fell from his concept. Just something you have to learn to live with when you are a perfectionist.

From early woodworking training, I was told that the mark of a craftsman is NOT that he always does perfect work, but that he makes it look like he does either by illusion (in this case, feather out the dip so that it is not perceptible) or by incorporating it into the design so that it appears intentional.

While this will not help now, I used to work in a guitar shop and the people doing the inlay rarely cut perfect fits. The finger boards were so dark that colored epoxy hid the oversized cut so that it was not perceptible. Using shading on the inlay might allow for a dark border to visibly disappear or become part of the design.

I think whoever gets this piece will appreciate the workmanship that went into it.

[Jon Bonham]

Hey! Just got off the phone with a custom cabinet shop, he said it would cost me 20 bucks to run it through, is that a good deal or am I getting screwed? I have never done this before so obviously that seems high to me, but maybe it is a great deal? Please let me know,

Thanks,

Jason

$20 to not be pissed off? Put me in the camp that calls that a great deal.

[Jason Scott]

Thanks guys, I am going to go meet the guy and run it through the sander and see what happens...Becuase the grain is curly on the walnut, there was a significant amount of tear out from the planer anyway, which makes the drum sander idea even more appealing. I agree on developing a relationship, so we'll see what happens.

I need to stop being so critical I think, b/c woodworking is becoming less and less fun b/c I am constantly comparing my work to others, i.e. David Marks, Marc Spag., a lot of you on here, and of course Norm. So basically I am never happy with anything :rolleyes: I should have just walked away from this last night, instead I was tired and frustrated and caused a "whoops" moment. You think I would learn from the last time, lol. Anyway going to the cabinet shop and having it run through will at least take care of the 1. tearout, and 2. the lowspot that is driving me crazy. I'll let you all know how it turns out. Thanks again,

Jason

[Josiah Bartlett]

High quality woodwork isn't so much about being perfect, its how well the mistakes are hidden. You are doing a fine job.