Me wants to fight a GRIZZLY!!!!!

[Chris Yarish]

So, after doing a lot of shopping around, price and product comparisons to outfit my new shop I convinced myself that going with Grizzly for most of my items would be the best option. Price and quality seemed to intersect with one another with this company.
I shot off an email of the products I desired in order to confirm the shipping costs and they don't even ship to Canada because of a non-competition agreement with an unnamed company

Alas, here I sit, back at the drawing board. Thought I'd share my disappointment you all. What a bummer.
Grrrr.

[Jim O'Dell]

Maybe someone here will know what that other company is. Then you would pretty much know that it is the same equipment. Seems like Shop Fox is basically the same items, with a longer warranty? Good luck! You'll find something. Jim.

[Jon Bonham]

Calgary's not that far from the US. Couldn't you have it shipped somewhere and go pick it up and cart it home?

[Barry Lloyd]

That really stinks Chris. Sorry to hear you're left high and dry.

BTW...I've come to the same conclusion as you on the price/performance aspects of Grizzly's product line. I've started with one of their 2HP Cyclone DCs and hoping to get a 15" stationary planer in the next month or two.

Barry

[Lance Norris]

I remember seeing people complain about this before. It is the first time I have seen that its because of a non competition agreement. Seems strange in todays cut-throat business tactical world. Sorry to hear about your bad fortune though.

[Justin Bukoski]

I believe BusyBee Tools is the company they have the agreement with.

http://busybeetools.ca/cgi-bin/homepage?&NTDESC=homepage2.htm

[Chris Yarish]

Calgary's not that far from the US. Couldn't you have it shipped somewhere and go pick it up and cart it home?

Thought of this....shipping to Montana plus box truck rental, plus gas, plus border costs or hassles....not really going to end up being that much cheaper.

I'll likely shop locally. Not a fan of what busybee sells....

[Matt Mutus]

Chris is you really have your heart set on Grizzly there should be a workaround to this. Have any friends or family south of the border?

The only downside would be paying the extra freight cost of double handling. But you'll have the stuff you wanted.

[Justin Bukoski]

Chris, what are you looking to buy? I saw your thread about the table saw, are you going to get anything else? If you are going to buy a few tools you may want to consider a combo of some sort.

[Ron Kellison]

Busy Bee is the Canadian company. I seem to remember reading somewhere that the President of Grizzly and the owner of Busy Bee are closely related. I also think that the products aren't the same. Busy Bee seems to be 3-5 years behind Grizzly in terms of features and further behind in terms of fit and finish. That said, I have a couple of BB tools in my shop that do what I expect them to do. They're ugly and crudely made but they work!

Regards,

Ron

[Al Killian]

Maybe they own a company in Canada? Have you tried Shop Fox yet?

[Dick Rowe]

A question I would have before I have it shipped in the US and then go down and pick it up ... what about warranty and/or any replacement parts you may require over the life of the product? Will Grizzly honor those to a Canadian address?

[Bob Antoniewicz]

Just took a quick look at the cyclones available from Busy Bee, and they look a lot like the JDS units.

Bob A.

[Lee Koepke]

A question I would have before I have it shipped in the US and then go down and pick it up ... what about warranty and/or any replacement parts you may require over the life of the product? Will Grizzly honor those to a Canadian address?
good question ... i would think it would be like if i moved to Canada and took my saw with me. one would THINK you could still get parts, etc ..

[Curt Harms]

good question ... i would think it would be like if i moved to Canada and took my saw with me. one would THINK you could still get parts, etc ..

That question would be worth a phone call to customer service.

[Glen Gunderson]

Thought of this....shipping to Montana plus box truck rental, plus gas, plus border costs or hassles....not really going to end up being that much cheaper.

I'll likely shop locally. Not a fan of what busybee sells....


I don't think shipping to Montana is an option. If I remember correctly, Grizzly won't ship to an American address if it is paid for with a Canadian credit card. They'll take Canadian cards in the store, but I don't think you can mail order with one.

If you do find a way to make it work, the border is a non-issue. I recently brought a Grizzly planer across the border and there was no trouble at all. It took about 2-3 minutes in the customs office at the border to take care of it. In the end, all you'll pay is GST and PST (which you'd be paying if you bought locally as well). The only extra costs on top of buying locally were gas and state sales tax. All in all, I was able bring home a G0453 for $950 including all expenses/taxes. Comparable units in Canada after tax start at around $1450 and go up from there. For me, it was well worth it to save the $500.

[Keith Outten]

Chris,

Send a Private Merssage to Shiraz here at The Creek. He will be able to provide you with any information concerning alternatives that may be available to you concerning Grizzly Tools.

Use The Force, Chris :)

.

[Chris Yarish]

I don't think shipping to Montana is an option. If I remember correctly, Grizzly won't ship to an American address if it is paid for with a Canadian credit card. They'll take Canadian cards in the store, but I don't think you can mail order with one.

If you do find a way to make it work, the border is a non-issue. I recently brought a Grizzly planer across the border and there was no trouble at all. It took about 2-3 minutes in the customs office at the border to take care of it. In the end, all you'll pay is GST and PST (which you'd be paying if you bought locally as well). The only extra costs on top of buying locally were gas and state sales tax. All in all, I was able bring home a G0453 for $950 including all expenses/taxes. Comparable units in Canada after tax start at around $1450 and go up from there. For me, it was well worth it to save the $500.

...and it is for that kind of savings that I am drawn to Grizzly.
I can buy inexpensive tools here in Canada, but they don't seem to be on par with Grizzly products.
I'l have to do some further calculating to see if the cost savings outweighs the hassle.

[Chris Yarish]

Chris,

Send a Private Merssage to Shiraz here at The Creek. He will be able to provide you with any information concerning alternatives that may be available to you concerning Grizzly Tools.

Use The Force, Chris :)

.

Message sent.
The US has long championed iteslf as the mantle of capitalism, governments have worked out free trade agreements, and consumers cast votes with their pocketbook...seems odd that these factors are all moot when it comes to one guy wanting to buy some tools.

[Dick Rowe]

Message sent.
The US has long championed iteslf as the mantle of capitalism, governments have worked out free trade agreements, and consumers cast votes with their pocketbook...seems odd that these factors are all moot when it comes to one guy wanting to buy some tools.


Why do you assume that the problem is the U.S. ??

[Chris Yarish]

Why do you assume that the problem is the U.S. ??

I'm not sure why you have responded to me with this question....I have nowhere stated that the "problem is the US".

I have simply expressed frustration with the fact that a guy in Canada can't directly purchase goods from an American company in spite of all the work that has been done to ensure such transactions can take place.

[Chris Yarish]

Found this thread....
TOS - Links to other public or private forums are not allowed.

Which also linked ot this thread:
TOS - Links to other public or private forums are not allowed.

[Chris Yarish]

I like this guy's attitude:

Used to tick me off that you couldn't get Griz in Canada. Doesn't any more. Rather do business with someone who actually wants to do business with me. If they don't want to sell then I can buy elsewhere.

[Rod Sheridan]

There are many marketing differences between Canada and the United States.

Griizzly/ Busy Bee are one, JET are another.

In Canada, WMH does not own the rights to the JET name, so we Canadians can purchase Wilton and Powermatic from WMH, hower no JET.

I would suggest that if you are in Canada, a Canadian company such as General, or General International if you want imported machinery, would be more than pleased to accept your order.

King, particularily King Industrial, sell imported machinery that is better than Busy Bee, not as good as GI.

regards, Rod.

[Dick Sylvan]

King, particularily King Industrial, sell imported machinery that is better than Busy Bee, not as good as GI.



Another difference is that in the US we would say "King sells." Always thought that was a curious difference between the U.S. and, I guess, the rest of the English speaking world.

[Chris Yarish]

There are many marketing differences between Canada and the United States.

Griizzly/ Busy Bee are one, JET are another.

In Canada, WMH does not own the rights to the JET name, so we Canadians can purchase Wilton and Powermatic from WMH, hower no JET.

I would suggest that if you are in Canada, a Canadian company such as General, or General International if you want imported machinery, would be more than pleased to accept your order.

King, particularily King Industrial, sell imported machinery that is better than Busy Bee, not as good as GI.

regards, Rod.

So, IYHO, the heirarchy of the tools available to me from above referenced tools would be as follows:
General, King Industrial, General Int'l, King, Busy Bee?
As an acceptable generalization...is this correct?

[Peter Froh]

Chris,
About 2 years ago I purchased the Ridgid contractor saw at Home Depot for $799. Of course if I had the money and room I would love to have a cabinet saw but I don't have either so the contractor saw was a nice compromise. I've been very happy with the Ridgid. It has a blade shroud that does a great job of dust collection. It's got a cast iron top and the power is adequate for my needs. I have not run into a situation where I needed more power than the saw provides. The fence is solid. Really other than it's not a cabinet saw, I don't have any complaints. You will likely find that this is the opinion of a lot of Ridgid contractor saw owners (I've read a lot of forum threads about this saw). The life time warranty is a nice added bonus although I've not had to use it.

I was at Home Depot today and they have the saw on sale for $599. A great price and with the left over money from your budget you can invest in some upgrades to the saw like a good dado set and nice blade, maybe even an after market mitre gauge like the Incra or Jessem.

If you are a hobbiest like myself you will more than likely really enjoy the saw. Hell if you don't like it you can return it so you have no risk or worries (other than transportation).

My 2 cents to help you on your goal to getting a good quality TS.

[Rod Sheridan]

So, IYHO, the heirarchy of the tools available to me from above referenced tools would be as follows:
General, King Industrial, General Int'l, King, Busy Bee?
As an acceptable generalization...is this correct?

Hi Chris, I would place them in the following order

1) General, made in Canada, top tier machinery

2) General International, second tier, made to compete with Delta (both are made in Taiwan)

3) King Industrial

4) Busy Bee


Regards, Rod.

P.S. I noticed that you are in Calgary, when I travel there on business I've often looked at Canwood (House of Tools??) and would rate them on par with Busy Bee.

[Chris Yarish]

IMO, Canwood is closer to Wal-Mart quality. I have not been impressed with anything they make (other than some spring clamps).

Even though House of Tools toes the line that Canwood is made in the same factory as the Generals, it's the materials Canwood chooses that, IMO, makes them an inferior product.

I am shopping around again. Will be looking at King and General Int'l. I may onsider that Rigid one as well. I kind of set myself up for a 2hp minimum saw....and hoped to get into a hybrid.

Either way, Grizzly is out and will likely be that way until they change their policies. Clearly the family agreement with BB trumps consumer demands...

[M Toupin]

I have simply expressed frustration with the fact that a guy in Canada can't directly purchase goods from an American company in spite of all the work that has been done to ensure such transactions can take place.
I really fail see your point here... This has absolutely nothing to do with governments or free trade agreements. It's the prerogative of a business to do (or not do) business were they please.

While I can certainly understand your disappointment, what's the point of your original post? Or better yet, what's the intent? I think your opening post says it all "Me wants to fight a GRIZZLY!!!!!" My question is why? Is the intent to try and "force" Griz to export to Canada through pressure via an on-line forum? Or maybe to just deride a company who’s business model you’re not happy with? What’s the intent of your "fight" here?

Mike

[Chris Yarish]

I really fail see your point here... This has absolutely nothing to do with governments or free trade agreements. It's the prerogative of a business to do (or not do) business were they please.

While I can certainly understand your disappointment, what's the point of your original post? Or better yet, what's the intent? I think your opening post says it all "Me wants to fight a GRIZZLY!!!!!" My question is why? Is the intent to try and "force" Griz to export to Canada through pressure via an on-line forum? Or maybe to just deride a company who’s business model you’re not happy with? What’s the intent of your "fight" here?

Mike

Well Mike, the heading was catchy. There were likely thousands of different permutations and combinations I could have chosen, instead I settled with "Me wants to fight a grizzly".

The more erudite SMC members may have opted to read my initial posting where I simply lamented the fact that Griz did not ship up north, and that I was "sharing my disappointment" with them. The content of the post should have been more of an indicator of my intentions than the thread title....

What was revealed to me in this thread, elsewhere in these fora and the internet, was the fact that Grizzly doesn't ship to Canada for any other reason than a family member owns a "competing" (in quotes because it has become quite clear that there is no parity between the quality of BB and Griz machinery) company and doesn't want to affect their business.

So, you are asking a multi-pronged question. I will do my best to respond and perhaps elucidate what I can.
The point of my original post was to express to a community of woodworkers my disappointment in Grizzly's sales policy vis a vis Canadian sales.

My intent, although not expressed, was likely to have similar experiences revealed to me....and perhaps, ex post facto, I wanted to publicy express my feelings toward this policy in hopes that the policy would be revisited.

I am of the opinion that consumer demands drive the market....public outcry often drives policy etc. I have written a brief PM to Shiraz and sent an email to Grizzly informing them that my money will be spent on Grizzly machinery or something that is not Busy Bee.

Not that I really have to justify anything here, but that about sums it up. Hopefully there are more consumers willing to say "I have money for your company, if you don't want it, I will spend it elsewhere..." With an impending recession looming over the US, and an inferior family product being peddled up north, perhaps policy will change. If it does, cool. If not, I did my part.

[Paul Simmel]

Message sent.
The US has long championed iteslf as the mantle of capitalism, governments have worked out free trade agreements, and consumers cast votes with their pocketbook...seems odd that these factors are all moot when it comes to one guy wanting to buy some tools.

The reason you can't get Grizzly has nothing to do with Grizzly. This is a Canadian thing and very well know in the Canadian woodworking world. You need to talk to your officials up there, and pick your fight with them. Not Grizzly (see thread title).

[Chris Yarish]

The reason you can't get Grizzly has nothing to do with Grizzly. This is a Canadian thing and very well know in the Canadian woodworking world. You need to talk to your officials up there, and pick your fight with them. Not Grizzly (see thread title).

He he....the term "fight" was not literal. I guess I need a disclaimer on this one. i
From what I have received from Grizzly and from others in the industry, this is a non-compete agreement between Busy Bee and Grizzly and exists independent of any involvement with government officials (if that is what you meant by "officials").

At this point, it's really no skin off my back. I am now able to support local businesses and build a rapport with them through continued purchases and other endeavors....so all in all, Grizzly lost me as a customer, which in the big scheme of things, is not a major loss.

There are 35 million people in Canada though......

[Tim Marks]

My guess is "I want to fight a grizzly" is that he wants a grizzly to come to his house so he can play with it, not an expression of anger toward the company. Glass is half full or empty sort of thing; you could take it the wrong way if you choose.

It isn't a "Canadian" or "US" thing; it is about family relationships. Shiraz Balolia does not want to set himself up in competition with his brother who owns Busy Bee. That is understandable, although it would probably be nice if Busy Bee duplicated more of the Grizzly product line. Google "Busy Bee Balolia", and you will find an article on the Canadian Woodworking Forum which tells the story of the whole relationship (TOS won't let me link to it). When Shiraz Balolia sold Busy Bee to his brother Anil Balolia, he also signed a non-competitive agreement that he would not sell in Canada.

Western Tool had a Pioneer cabinet saw once when I went there, and it was very nice looking. Pioneer is sold/distributed by House of Tools in Alberta, and seems to have a decent product line. How do you all think it falls into the hierarchy (yeah I agree, General is tops).

[M Toupin]

My guess is "I want to fight a grizzly" is that he wants a grizzly to come to his house so he can play with it, not an expression of anger toward the company.

I believe he clarified his position and intent. "perhaps, ex post facto, I wanted to publicy express my feelings toward this policy"


you could take it the wrong way if you choose.

Back at ya.

Mike



Mike

[Eddie Darby]

The question was asked about warranty work, and if Grizzly would do it because you are in Canada.
So far it has gone unanswered. Does the warranty say 'Void if you move the equipment into Canada' ?
I would hate to be an American that after building a shop of Grizzly tools, moves to Canada only to find that the warranty is void.
If they will honor their warranty no matter where you are in the world, then the only problem can be handled by a Freight Forwarder.

I wonder why?:confused:

Perhaps the brothers should get together, and sell the same tools, since Busy Bee is being left in the dust by Grizzly tools.

Sorta like General, there could be a Grizzly and a Grizzly International.

[Greg Muller]

Apparently, that is the only answer you are going to get, Chris. Grab a truck and head to Bellingham, or a plane, there is a private airport not far from there, make a call and find out if any air couriers have Space-A flights. You can buy the machines and drop them at the airport for a short flight to a runway near you. Of course, that ain't real cheap for the weight you are talking about.

Good Luck.

AM I LOSING MY MIND????
There was a post from Shiraz just before my post where he stated that if you purchased a Grizzly, they would still supply parts for you in Canada, and implied that since the Bellingham store is so close to the border, you may be able to purchase there. It started something like "Let's not get ahead of ourselves, here" .

I think someone is either playing games or papa griz is editing/deleting his quick responses to avoid a squabble.

And no, I am not losing my mind, but that is subject to review from the booth.

Greg

[Rick Gifford]

Too bad you dont have a buddy that lives North U.S. that can order one and hand it off to you.

I think I'd feel the same though. If a Canadian company wouldn't do business with me because I lived in the U.S. I'd say heck with 'em and spend my money elsewhere.

This one sounds like an internal deal between BB and Grizzly. Wonder if Canadian woodworkers can let BB know how crappy this is, how they don't like this special arrangment between the company's.

Send them a letter and let them know since they want to play like this, you'll do business elswhere and it won't be at BB either. Maybe enough of that this family will open up to keep business.

[Todd Jensen]

This is an old subject. The owner of Grizzly and the owner of BB or whatever the Canukistanian company is called are BROTHERS. LITERALLY.

[fRED mCnEILL]

I live in Vancouver Canada, about an hours drive from Grizzly. When I want their tools I drive to the plant. HOWEVER, over the past 25 years I have bought a lot of stuff from American companies and use a shipping address in a little town close to the border.(Lynden Wa) The shipping address is the local Radio Shack outlet who is a depot for all the couriers and the US P.O. A few years ago I had a $6000 double oven sent there and met the freight truck at the depot.

What I am suggesting is that there probably is a U.S. town close to the border that acts as a depot. You aren't too far from the border. It would probably burn a day for you but is is quite do-able. Now if you lived in Edmonton or Fort McMurray it might be harder.

I think the General Int. stuff is comparable to Grizzly but more expensive and my experience with King is not good. You are right that BB's major tools are crude in comparison. Some of their smaller stuff from India(Groz) is actually pretty good and has better prices than Grizzly. i.e. hand planes.

Incidently, I don' think that Grizzly has a problem selling to Canadians. When I buy stuff from them I am in their computer with my Canadian address. However our postal code drives their computer system nuts.

Good Luck

Fred Mc.