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View Full Version : Surfing Other Forums--Proper Etiquette



Dr. Zack Jennings
03-05-2003, 5:36 PM
I am guilty, I admit it, of surfing the other Woodworking Forums. I never enjoy it and I never inhale. I've even seen other members from this forum sneakin' over to Ellis Island and the Oak Factory Forum [ edited comment] but I ain't no snitch. You know who you are.

I consider my home to be right here in Beautiful Downtown Sawmill Creek. I may post a reply elswhere if I think I have sometin' useful to add but I ain't gonna buy a hat and I ain't gonna start a new thread.
I start new threads here. I feel like any dumb question I need answered can be hashed out here. I'm trustin' you guys.
Linking to Other Forums . Is it proper Etiquette to read an interesting thread elsewhere, and start a thread here with a link over to there???
More than anything else, I enjoy completed projects. For me, they are like the centerfold of the magazine. Is it proper to send Creekers over to another forum to see somthin' neat so long as they promise to come back here before Dinner?
Are We all One Big Family of Woodworkers? Or...should We stay here, wear our Hats and let them other boys (and girls) alone?


My opinion is that We should alert our members of anything interesting out there... anywhere on the World Wide Web: Where to get tools, Where to get deals, interesting WW Sites and interesting things that happen on other WW Forums.

<center>What's Your Opinion?

[ Comments Removed Here]
Editorial note: added March 9th, 2003
Aaron has addressed this issue well and, I think, put it to rest.
<center>Please Scroll Down to his post</center>



<center>This thread has been edited, sanatized & homogenized to remove any comments that may offend our esteemed and knowledgable colleages on the Oak Factory Forum </center>

Dave Sweeney
03-05-2003, 6:27 PM
I can't imagine anyone voting anything but "Yes". Sharing information and tricks is what ALL the forums are about aren't they?:)

Randy Gleckler
03-06-2003, 12:03 PM
Anything that helps me become better is always good.... I'll always come back here because of the people... but more information is ALWAYS good.

Von Bickley
03-06-2003, 12:25 PM
Dr. Zack,
I feel like we are one big wood working family and we should share information with each other, regardless of where that information is. I would also like to see more people starting new threads concerning wood working and their shops.
I also lurk at the other wood working sites, but I always start at SMC and return to SMC.
Lets all work together to make SMC the best wood working site. :)

Phil Phelps
03-06-2003, 1:08 PM
I never looked anywhere else when I was on the Pond. Since then, I've looked at plenty. Ellis is a class act. Great guy. The Oak is different. But, I really like this place. And, Zack, so far the rules we play by are just fine. Self governing has worked with the ones here so far. And, the chat rooms a hoot. Ken Salisbury has been influental in that part of this forum as well as helpful hints and instructions. I like the people here. Feels good. :)

Dave Hammelef
03-06-2003, 1:10 PM
The name of the game is sharing knowledge. I look at lots of other forums, post at them and here and crosslink when appropriate.

Keith Outten
03-06-2003, 1:18 PM
Believe me I understand that we all all interested in sharing information but...is it really proper etiquette to use the resources of one forum to promote another?

I doubt that other Admins would allow any posts that would in any way promote SawMill Creek and this wouldn't bother me at all since they pay the bills for their site. Since most of the Woodworking forums are considered commercial web sites this crosses the line as they are collecting money in some fashion.

There is definitely competition between all of the Woodworking forums on the Internet, I doubt that any Administrator would deny this,in comparison you can understand why a Ford dealer wouldn't allow you to put posters for Chevy in his window.

I don't think that anyone would expect people to use just one forum, certainly people visit as many sites as they can to gather as much information as they can about a subject they enjoy. Just for the record I don't mind people mentioning Wood Central or The Oaks or any other board in our fourms here but I would prefer never to see any negative comments about any other forum and lets not link to any forum from SawMill Creek. I wish all of the other woodworking forums well and hope they are successful in their endeavors. Our staff will continue to build, improve and add features to SawMill Creek for our members to enjoy when they are here/home :)

Richard Brown
03-06-2003, 2:55 PM
I have often wondered what is right and what is wrong with saying something about another Web Site. When I found the pond I was scanning the different wood sites. One the ocassion that I found the Pond another person was looking for someone and another person told him to look for him on the Badger Pond that he doesn't come over there anymore. The person then went to look for the Pond and couldn't find it so he came back and asked how to get there and the person told him to look up WWfourm. I then thought that I would look there too and never returned to that other fourm. I can see where that if this happens very often a site would loose people to the other fourm and and due to the drop in hit whould loose advertising revenue. I guess this is why I have been more Lurker and not saying too much as I travel around to many sites. I still like the original site that I was looking at when they made many changes and caused a lot of confusion.

Keith Outten
03-06-2003, 3:14 PM
Dick,

One of the things that makes SawMill Creek different from other forums is that we don't have any advertisers. Our site doesn't collect any money at all so we don't have to worry about how many hits we receive. We do watch our site statistics closely to see how we are doing and what areas of our site people enjoy the most, these are the areas we will concentrate on improving.

We are constantly bombarded with advertising in our daily lives, there has to be one place where we can escape commercial blasts and simply enjoy ourselves. We have a sponsor that embraces this philosophy, enjoy!

"We're Running On Friendship"

Ken Salisbury
03-06-2003, 4:10 PM
Amen to both of Keith's posts. If anyone is interested in what is going on in the other forums they should visit there, comment there and then leave there ---- That's what I do.
<p align=center>
"I don't want anyone tracking any mud on my living room carpet"

robertfsmith
03-06-2003, 4:24 PM
Obviously this was intended to me,seeing as how my post was deleted. So...

I work at a sawmill 45-60hrs a week, my wife works, I sell a few blocks of wood here and there on ebay; I have enough income to pay my bills. I did not set up my website as a new career. I visisted Bp and woodcentral everyday for the last 2 years. When Wayne announced the closing of the pond I felt like I lost an arm, so I immediatly began to build a new place for everyone to hang out at. A place to share advice and friendship. I do not try to sell anything to anyone. I put banners up so that if someone needs something They can access it and help displace to cost of the website. Keith you know how much it costs, the bulletin board alone is 160. I spent this money for a place gather with fellow woodworker, not planning on making any money, except maybe enough to help with the cost. Yes, I will have some things for sale on my website, but I'm not asking anyone to buy, it will be there for them to find and decide if they want it or not. If I wanted to make a living with a website I would have started a porn site.

I always thought that woodworking forums were for people to gather and share information, or show off their creations. I guess I was wrong. I guess woodworking forums are like tribes, you can only belong and visit just one.

I visit woodcentral as well as here and my own, and there are things of interest on each one, so why can't people be allowed to visit each one.

I thought my contests would be fun for everyone. They could show off and put their projects up for a friendly competion with other woodworkers. I guess a contest would only put money in my pocket huh? I don't think so.

Anyway, am I allowed to stay here and enjoy what others have to say or show, even though I visit Woodcentral and host my wn board?? Please!

I didn't mean to offend anyone with the announcement of a contest on my board, I just wanted to let everyone have a chance at participating.

Thanks, for listening to my rant,
Rob

Dr. Zack Jennings
03-06-2003, 4:55 PM
Let Me See if I Can Dig This Hole a Little Deeper. Before this is over, you may wish to send me over to another forum and lock me out.

I was racing a Hot Air Balloon, with a commercial sponsor, in Plano Texas in 1990. The TV Station wanted to interview me, in the balloon, but they did not want to show the balloon. Some policy against giving away advertising. Don't you think their coverage of the Balloon event might have been more interesting to their viewers w/o these restrictions?

I posted a note recently about Shop Dogs with a link to another forum where the thread started. It has generated over 40 reponses on this forum and the view count is headed towards 1000. The members here liked the thread. Is that a bad thing?

NASCAR TV Coverage adopted a policy decades ago about not only showing every sponsor of every car but they call this one the Texaco Ford, you get the picture. Kind of hard to cover a car race and not show the cars. Has this policy hurt the sport? I have a friend that owns the #22 Caterpillar Dodge. When he goes looking for a sponsor, associate sponsor, more money.... He goes armed with statistics on how many times the sponsor gets mentioned on TV, How many TV Sets are on, and how many butts are in the stands.

If someone completes a particularly nice workbench project over at the Sludge Creek forum, Would it Hurt This Forum to have someone here, post a thread and say go look at this thing and, when you get back, show us your's?

Some one visiting here might think, if I stay here at Sawmill Creek these boys will tell me if anything interesting is going on somewhere else. I don't think that allowing links to other forums is going to decrease the Butt Count in the Stands over here at the Sawmill 500. Is the Ford/Chevy analogy a good one? Your not really recomending the other forum or any of their sponsors.... You're pointing out the Guy's Workbench, a fellow woodworker finished something.

I think a good policy would be to drop in at the Sludge Creek Forum and leave a reply, "I just dropped in from Sawmill Creek and I like your bench."

Dave Avery
03-06-2003, 7:03 PM
I agree with ya Zack, but I also respect Keith's right to request that we not link to other WW BB's. While I didn't always like Wayne's methods, I always defended hisr right to run the site the way he wanted. Dave.

Keith Outten
03-06-2003, 7:57 PM
Robert and Zack

Robert, as you are running a woodworkers forum you should understand our position. I applaud your efforts to make a place for all of us who were members of Badger Pond, this is exactly what we have tried to do and we have listened to their comments and suggestions. Probably 90% of the members here don't want to see advertisements or commercial material.

I have opened the door for comments concerning how our members would prefer us to handle certain areas, this was done to solicit constructive feedback in an effort to be as flexible as possible. We are still dicussing the rules and none have been cast in stone yet.

I answered Zacks post and I believe that my comments were clear in what I considered appropriate for SawMill Creek. I also stated that I don't expect anyone to make SawMill Creek their exclusive home, those that do feel at home here are certainly welcome and I will say in all sincerity that I appreciate their kindness and their loyalty.

I believe that we have created a fourm that is as open to sharing information as possible, in keeping with all of the promises I have made to maintain as close to the rules at Badger Pond as I could.
I will stand by my promise to the members of Badger Pond.

I have read the majority of posts here since Febuary 11th it seems to me that 99% of our members are very happy, so am I, enough said.

PeterTorresani
03-07-2003, 1:26 PM
I don't know how proper it is to repond to an "enough said " remark, but no one has ever accused me of being proper.

I think the fact that you don't have a problem with people mentionig other sites or referring people to other sites shows that you are not being over-restrictive. Not that I needed another example of this fact. When a site of this nature has only two non-negotiable rules, you know that things are pretty open.

Thanks again for being so receptive to everybodies ideas while putting this site together.

Dave Hammelef
03-07-2003, 7:43 PM
Ok, I am confused. Its ok to link to my own buisness or personal web site that sells stuff. But I can not link to another woodworking forum if it has an interesting picture or discussion?

I hope I understand this rule wrong? If not can I mention the site with out a link?

There was an interesting post earlier about a thread at woodcentral on Jets knockoff tools. I thought it was interesting and it started a discussion here. Whats wrong with pointing people to other refrence places.

I really hope I miss understand something here. Keith this is your place and just like I respected Wayne's rules I will respect your's Im just not sure I get this one.

Dave

Aaron Koehl
03-08-2003, 1:43 AM
Hey all-

While we haven't finalized and posted our rules yet, here
is an excerpt of a draft regarding our posting policy. These are
pretty much the guidelines we've used all along, so don't be put
off by the fact that they're in writing-- you won't really find anything
new below. Keep in mind, also, that this is a draft, and an
incomplete one at that. :)

.... .... ....
Rule #0: Do what's right! :D

Of course, for those who like more rigid guidelines:
<font size=1>
<b>I. Posting Policy</b>
It is our policy to support the free flow of information in a manner
best befitting the woodworking community at large, permitted
that the information is not commercial in nature. Simply put,
the mission of SawmillCreek is not to be a vehicle for marketing,
filled with commercials, promotional offers, and ads. Instead it is a place
where woodworkers may come together to discuss a common
interest.
&nbsp;&nbsp;<b>A. Registration</b>
Currently, posting and online chat are restricted to registered members.
Registration is FREE. We ask that user names represent real first and last
names, rather than a handle. You do not need to provide any personal
information, other than to certify that you are over the age of 13,
in accordance with the Children's Online Privacy and Protection
Act (COPPA). Displaying of your email address is an option you
may set in your control panel. You may also choose not to be
displayed in the 'Who's Online' listing.
&nbsp;&nbsp;<b>B. Self Governance</b>
All posts are subject to moderation. If a post is deemed offensive
by a user, it may be reported to the moderator by using the 'Report
Post to Moderator' option. If a post is reported to a moderator
by two or more members, it may be subject to removal at our
discretion.
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<b>1. Religion and Politics</b>
This is not a forum for proselytization or propaganda. Accordingly,
we ask that you abstain from engaging in religious or political debate
unrelated to woodworking.
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<b>2. Disagreements, Flaming, and Personal Attacks</b>
Disagreements are almost certain to occur. Please exercise good judgement
and be respectful of dissenting opinions. Name-calling and other personal
attacks are prohibited, but must be brought to the attention of
the moderators if a post containing such attacks is undesirable.
&nbsp;&nbsp;<b>C. Off-Topic (OT) Posts</b>
We are a community that shares a common interest, the operative
word being <i>community</i>. Off-topic posts are definitely allowed
but may be moved to the Support Forum.
&nbsp;&nbsp;<b>D. Commercial Advertising</b>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<b>1. Direct Commercial Affiliation</b>
It is our policy not to solicit commercial advertisers. Thus, we
expect our users to adhere to the same policy. Posts made by
users with direct commercial affiliation, and with the apparent intent
of using Sawmill Creek for the sole purpose of promoting a product or
service will be subject to removal. Users with direct commercial
affiliation are defined to be those users who stand to benefit
financially from such promotion.
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<b>2. Indirect Commercial Affiliation</b>
Users may wish to expose other topics of interest, commercial
topics included, but may only do so for the purpose of promoting discussion
on the forums or in chat.
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<b>3. External Linking </b>
Links to other websites are allowed in posts. In fact, they are
encouraged. However, linking for the sole purpose of marketing,
generating traffic to a site (including other forums), or any other
commercial advertisement deemed to solicit commercial benefit
will not be allowed. Links should be submitted as references,
for the sole purpose of generating discussion on SawmillCreek.
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<b>4. Signatures</b>
Links of personal interest are allowed in signatures attached
to the end of posts, including websites personally held;
commercial or not. Signatures may not, however, be gratuitous
commercial advertisements containing promotional offers, sales,
or other marketing efforts.
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<b>5. Discussion of Pricing Information</b>
Discussion of prices is <i>discouraged but not prohibited</i>, unless such posting
is aimed at closing a sale. Please use discretion, as most prices are subject
to regional conditions. <i>See commercial affiliation.</i>
<b>II. Online Chat</b>
&nbsp;&nbsp;<b>A. Guidelines</b>
Online chat is largely unmoderated, much like a normal conversation.
Floods (repeated posts) and
commercial spams are discouraged. Please do not type in all
CAPS, as such is construed as shouting.
&nbsp;&nbsp;<b>B. Scheduled Chats</b>
Certain moderated chats will be scheduled, and transcripts will
be made available on the board within a few days.
Users breaking the rules may be kicked out of chat, but may
reconnect. Users repeatedly kicked out may be banned for a
period of time at the moderator's discretion.
.
.
</font>

Aaron Koehl
03-08-2003, 2:28 AM
Originally posted by Dave Hammelef
Ok, I am confused. Its ok to link to my own buisness or personal web site that sells stuff. But I can not link to another woodworking forum if it has an interesting picture or discussion?

I hope I understand this rule wrong? If not can I mention the site with out a link?

There was an interesting post earlier about a thread at woodcentral on Jets knockoff tools. I thought it was interesting and it started a discussion here. Whats wrong with pointing people to other refrence places.

I really hope I miss understand something here. Keith this is your place and just like I respected Wayne's rules I will respect your's Im just not sure I get this one.

Dave

Dave,

It is okay to link to your own business. It is also okay to reference
other woodworking forums with the purpose of starting a
discussion here. We've had several successful threads here
based upon topics stemming from posts on other forums.

We haven't the need to enforce the rules yet-- it is up to your
fellow users to moderate what they feel is 'too commercial'
or improper.

I am quite satisfied with everyone's efforts here.
Hope this helps!

_Aaron_

Robert Henderson
03-08-2003, 7:49 AM
We are here to discuss woodworking so lets discuss woodworking! IMHO if you find some interesting woodworking information at another site then start new Saw Mill Creek thread and see what input people here may have on the subject. The name of the other site in not relevant IMO.


Robert

Tom Sweeney
03-08-2003, 9:00 AM
for posting the rough draft of the rules in question. While we are all adults here & a things are bound to get a little edgy once in a while - we need rules. I think most people are in agreement that Wayne's rules might have been a little on the strict side - but they are a big part of the civility & sense of community that the Pond had.

A few posts lately had me feeling like they were maybe approaching the line - but not yet crossing over it. However I might be in the minority with that position & I think it's important to note that we all have different sensibilities. I think most of us are comfortable with you guys setting good but not overbearing rules.

Thanks again for all your hard work. Lets all try to make Keith & Aaron's jobs easier by being careful about what we post - We've done fine so far - it shouldn't be too hard. If you need a fix of the wild west there are other forums that will satisfy that urge :D

If this doesn't make sense to anyone - cut me some slack I haven't had any coffee yet ;)