Wiring my shop for 220?? Help.

[Chris Yarish]

I am looking to convert my basement into a shop. For the most part, all the logistics have been figured out except the electrical. I know where I need outlets and approximately how many i will need. The problem is that I really have no idea what I am needing to ask, what i am needing to do, or how much work an electrician need to do.

I will have a max of 3 machines requiring 220, the rest are 110.
I have no idea what to do or ask beyond that. How about amperage? I want to be safe and efficient...so that nothing shuts off when I'm using my DC and another machine.

Does my entire breaker box need to be altered, upgraded...can 220 wiring be brought down from the stove (which is right above the shop) or do I need separate wiring from the panel?

I really have no clue what i'm talking about, so if my terms are vague, incorrect or otherwise confusing, that is why. I have a friend who is an electrician, but I want to at least know what I am asking him to do for me. Thanks.

[Rick Gifford]

Your going to get quite a few opinions on this one. First lets start with what to do. Since you know very little of the electrical work and are wise enough to admit it, get your friend involved from ground one. Don't do it alone.

You cannot run off your stove supply. Your tools on the 220 will each pull different loads and need their own line and breaker.

Is your home 100 AMP or 200AMP?

If your breaker box is large enough you can take it all back there. Most likely you will need to run a sub-panel off your main box just for the shop.

It is difficult to assess exactly what you need without seeing what you have now.

Your electrician friend will help you tremendously. Just tell him what you said here, he'll get you on the right path.

I would recommend a sub panel for the shop. 100 AMP if possible, but 60 AMP would probably do you. Have the sub panel wired for 220V. Run your outlets on their own breaker, dont tie that supply in with other household wiring. Consider putting half the outlets on one breaker and the other half on another... if you have alot. Each 220 tool have on its own line and breaker.

If you try to tie into other wiring in your house you'll just cause overloads and trips.

I am not an electrician and offer my opinions based on my own experience. I would go with whatever your electrician friends directs you.

[Rob Russell]

Chris,

Most of us that will answer are thinking about electrical installations in the USA. There may be requirements in the Canadian Electric Code that we're not aware of.

Layout what machines you want to run. You say a max of (3) 220v machines? That may be true now, but you may upgrade in the future. I'd plan for at least 3 separate 220v machine circuits - tablesaw or jointer, dust collector and compressor. You can probably use 20 amp circuits for those. To be safe, run #10 conductors. If you ever installed a 5HP, 220v machine, you could run a 30 amp circuit on the #10 just by swapping the breaker and plugs.

For 110v circuits, lots of outlets is good. Plan on an independent lighting circuit, so a tool won't kill your lights.

It is not likely that the CEC will allow you to piggy-back the shop onto your stove circuit. You're better off having the electrician install a subpanel in the basement where the shop will be and run all of your circuits out of there.

If you need to and want to get fancy, you could make it locking so you can disable power to all of the machine/tool circuits to keep young fingers away from dangerous tools when you're not around. If you do that, I'd run a separate lighting circuit from the main panelboard so the lights are not part of the locking panel.

Rob

[Eric Haycraft]

Just tell him what kind of machines you have, what you might upgrade to or add later and where they will be placed. Also, have tons of 120 outlets added. Every 4 feet or so is ideal and keep them all at least 48 inches above the ground so that you can lay paneling against the walls. He should be able to figure out the rest.

I plan on having 20 amp 120 and 240 outlets every 4 feet plus that same combination on the ceiling in my garage shop with one 30 amp 240 on each wall plus the ceiling and one more 30 amp where the DC will be located.

And no, you can't (or shouldn't may be a better term) bring 240 down from the stove. A workshop typically involves a lot of new breakers at the box..plan on 8 plus slots in the breaker box for the shop, so there could be substantial cost adding to or upgrading the main panel.

Talk to your friend and he should be able to point you towards a good balance between flexibility and what your budget will support. Also consider lighting..workshops typically have a lot of light, so now is the time to wire for it.

[Peter Quadarella]

About a month ago, I was just like you, in terms of knowledge of electrical stuff. Having just finished setting up the electric in my garage, perhaps I can briefly explain in terms we will both understand.

If your basement already has outlets all over the place and you just need some 220V outlets, and your house is not too old, and your circuit box is near or in your basement, you may be able to simply put in 2 or 3 220v circuits and run the wires out to outlets. That is simple.

If the above is not true, then you will probably want to put in a new sub-panel just for your shop area. This basically means you put 1 new circuit in your main panel, and run wire of the appropriate gauge to the sub-panel. The gauge wire determines the amount of power (amps) you will have available in the sub-panel. Once you have a sub-panel, you just put in however many circuits you need for whatever you want. Running 220v outlets is not significantly diferent from running 110v outlets. The wire to the sub-panel (and corresponding circuit in the main panel) will determine the maximum amount of power you can run at any one time in the shop.

So, for example, if you had 10 gauge wire running to your sub-panel, you could use a 30 amp circuit for it in the main panel. Then you could still put a 15 amp circuit for lights (14 gauge wire), 2 or 3 20 amp circuits for 110v outlets, and 2 or 3 20 amp circuits for 220v outlets (12 gauge wire). The individual circuits could not exceed their amp rating before flipping. Also overall you couldn't use more than 30 amps in the whole shop before the whole panel's circuit flipped, shutting off everything.

These numbers were just examples, to show how the number of circuits you have has nothing to do with how much power can be used in the sub-panel. Also, my knowledge is very basic, but these are some basic concepts I picked up. Hope it helped.

[Tom Veatch]

...
I really have no clue what i'm talking about, so if my terms are vague, incorrect or otherwise confusing, that is why. I have a friend who is an electrician, but I want to at least know what I am asking him to do for me. Thanks.

Get your electrician friend in to see what needs to be done. What you'll get here is the blind leading the blind, and, after all is said and done, you're going to have to get the electrician in anyway. Might as well do it up front.

Most likely you'll be setting a subpanel containing the circuits for your shop. The number of circuits, their amperages, voltages, and wire gauges will be determined by local codes and practices which should be known by the electrician on the scene. Answer his questions, take his advice, have him quote the job, and pay him for his experience and expertise.

[David Parker]

I'm in a similar situation and I find all your replies to be helpful. My main 200 amp house panel happens to reside within my new workshop space, but I plan on having a new 100 amp subpanel installed with multiple 240 and 120 volt circuits run to individual outlets.

I'm still undecided whether to have a master cutoff switch at the subpanel to disable all 240 v circuits at once, or to have a cutoff switch located at each 240 v outlet, or both.

I've done simple 120 volt house wiring before (a few new lights and plugs added to existing circuits), but never any 240 volt and I've never messed with the main panel before. While I don't mind learning and doing this work myself, is this something that an electrician should definitely do? I assume I'd have to have any such work approved by my local inspector. Any good sources of info on how to do this? (I have the "Wiring Simplified" book by Richter, Schwan, and Hartwell that is sold at Home Depot.) This all seems straightforward. Thanks.

[Chris Yarish]

House was built in 1982.
Panel is downstairs on opposite end of basement....I will have to check on it's technical specifications.
The basement is littered with 110's. It's almost like they tiled the walls with the critters.


I am will be running a tablesaw (110 or 220, depends on the saw I settle on)
A small jointer (110)
Miter saw (110)
Drill Press (110)
Dust collector (have a 1hp @110, may buy another of same size, or a 3 hp @220)
Air Filter (110)
Bandsaw (110)
Mark VI vacuum bag/press (110)

The only thing in my future would be a better jointer (would be 220 though) and a planer (likely 220 as well.)

[Bill Brady]

I would agree the best thing to do is get your electrician friend in from the start, show him your layout and he will be able to get things going the right way. If you want to do some yourself pickup a do-it yourself electrical book at Lowes or HD these will make it easeir for you to help your friend with the work.

[Greg Funk]

I concur with the other who recommend getting your electrician buddy involved.

The only other advice I would have is to run a couple if not all of your 240V circuits with 10AWG. Your buddy may not recommend it as it is more difficult to run and unnecessary for your current requirements but machines have a tendancy to 'grow' with improving experience and financial capabilities. I was in your position 5 yrs ago with my shop and now regret having only 12AWG circuits.

Greg

[Mike Cutler]

I really have no clue what i'm talking about, so if my terms are vague, incorrect or otherwise confusing, that is why. I have a friend who is an electrician, but I want to at least know what I am asking him to do for me. Thanks.

Tell your friend what you want to be able to do in the space, and where, and what kind of machinery will be located there. Think about bench location lighting etc..
Don't try to tell your friend what to do. Focus on telling your friend what you want to do. Your friend should be able to take it from there.

[Chris Yarish]

Tell your friend what you want to be able to do in the space, and where, and what kind of machinery will be located there. Think about bench location lighting etc..
Don't try to tell your what to do. Focus on telling your friend what you want to do. Your friend should be able to take it from there.

Yeah, good call. I have a flexible vision for how things can be arranged. With that, I will allow him to do what he does so long as it coheres with the ultimate end point.

[Brad Townsend]

A good basic book on home wiring is the following:

http://www.amazon.com/Complete-Guide-Home-Wiring-Information/dp/1589232135/ref=pd_bbs_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1200962177&sr=8-1

I'm not suggesting that what's in it will be in compliance with your local codes and such, but it will give you a basic understanding of home wiring and show you how the circuits should be wired in most instances. It is written in simple, easily understood language. It is widely available and can be found in many bookstores and home centers.

[Eric Haycraft]

I'm still undecided whether to have a master cutoff switch at the subpanel to disable all 240 v circuits at once, or to have a cutoff switch located at each 240 v outlet, or both.

I've done simple 120 volt house wiring before (a few new lights and plugs added to existing circuits), but never any 240 volt and I've never messed with the main panel before. While I don't mind learning and doing this work myself, is this something that an electrician should definitely do? I assume I'd have to have any such work approved by my local inspector. Any good sources of info on how to do this? (I have the "Wiring Simplified" book by Richter, Schwan, and Hartwell that is sold at Home Depot.) This all seems straightforward. Thanks.

I would say that if you are the least bit unsure, read up a bit on the subject and if you still feel uneasy, hire the work out. Doing it wrong can lead to a fire and if that happens you would kick yourself for not having a pro do it.

Regarding your cutoff switch question. If the machine is permanently wired (not plugged in), a cutoff switch right by the machine is a must. If not, you can have all of the breakers/switches in the panel. I think that it would be wise to have a subpanel in the shop rather than wiring everything into the main house panel. Having a subpanel in the shop makes resetting breakers easy and keeps the wiring simpler if you need to run new circuits later. A master switch on the subpanel may be idea good also since you can effectively lock out all power tools with one switch..a good option if you have kids in the house. If you do that just make sure that the lights are on the house's main panel so that you can still have lights on even if the main switch on the subpanel is off.

Good luck
Disclaimer, I am not an electrician.. so take any advice with a grain of salt.

[John Fricke]

I had electrician friend give me advice and here it is.......My house has a 200 amp service but I only had one available slot for 220 breaker. I installed 100 amp breaker in that slot than used that to feed a new 100 amp panel dedicated for the shop. I don't remember the gauge of the wire I ran but it was $$$, was about the size of my pinky finger (each of the 4 strands) I have had no issues with lights dimming in the house or tripping breakers.

[Vernon Taylor]

When I wired my shop(new construction,seperate building) I thought I had all the bases covered having installed a number of 120V circuits with outlets located all around the perimeter and dedicated 240V circuits for the TS,Drum sander etc. I wish I had more cicuits(outlets) in the ceiling with flexibe drops over areas where I tend to use the machines which are on mobile bases to eliminate the necesssity of using extension cords. It always seems the cord on the machine is too short to reach a wall outlet. Just something you may want to consider when planing.

[Rob Russell]

I'm in a similar situation and I find all your replies to be helpful. My main 200 amp house panel happens to reside within my new workshop space, but I plan on having a new 100 amp subpanel installed with multiple 240 and 120 volt circuits run to individual outlets.

I'm still undecided whether to have a master cutoff switch at the subpanel to disable all 240 v circuits at once, or to have a cutoff switch located at each 240 v outlet, or both.

I've done simple 120 volt house wiring before (a few new lights and plugs added to existing circuits), but never any 240 volt and I've never messed with the main panel before. While I don't mind learning and doing this work myself, is this something that an electrician should definitely do? I assume I'd have to have any such work approved by my local inspector. Any good sources of info on how to do this? (I have the "Wiring Simplified" book by Richter, Schwan, and Hartwell that is sold at Home Depot.) This all seems straightforward. Thanks.

Assuming that you live in an area where you can work on your own house (there are some locales in the USA where ONLY licensed electricians can do the work - some part of Maryland comes to mind), what you want is absolutely something that you can do yourself ... and do safely.

Installing a subpanel is absolutely something to have inspected because that's a significant change to your wiring. If you go into this with the attitude that the inspectors are there to help and protect you and your family, you are likely to have no problems with them.

The first question you have to ask is "do I feel comfortable adding a new circuit to a panelboard?" If the answer is "Yes", then you can do everything that is needed from the subpanel all the way out.

The Wiring Simplified book is really all that you need.

If you decide that you want to tackle the project yourself, let's start a fresh thread on the steps and stuff you need to know for that.

FYI, I did all the wiring for a major addition on our house. The GC who did the framing and most of the other work said that it would have been close to a $10K job if he'd subcontracted it out. It cost us time and perhaps $2-3K worth of materials.

Rob
Addy protocol: unlicensed, homeowner electrician

[Russ Sears]

The answer to this question might be contained in the previous posts but I don't see it: I like to unplug my saw when changing blades, etc. My understanding with 220 is that you don't just plug/unplug. Is that true? If so, wouldn't it make sense to have a sub-panel in the shop just so you could throw the breaker conveniently?

[Eric Haycraft]

You can wire it either way. I personally would only hard wire my DC and leave everything else to have plug-ins. If you browse the receptacle selection at the BORG you will see many types of 220 outlets for various amperages..locking or not..3 or 4 prong..etc. If you go with the plug-ins, it is very easy to move equipment around later..much harder with things hard wired. If you hard wire it is a good idea (probably required by code anyway) to have a shut off right next to the machine for changing blades, maintenance, etc.

[Rob Russell]

The answer to this question might be contained in the previous posts but I don't see it: I like to unplug my saw when changing blades, etc. My understanding with 220 is that you don't just plug/unplug. Is that true? If so, wouldn't it make sense to have a sub-panel in the shop just so you could throw the breaker conveniently?

You can just as easily unplug a 240v table saw as you can a 120v router.

[Chris Yarish]

You can just as easily unplug a 240v table saw as you can a 120v router.


Now I'm lost. What's 240 and 120?
Am I mistaken calling it 110 and 220, or is 120 and 240 something entirely dirfferent?

[Art Mann]

Nope. Everyone is talking about the same thing. 110V and 220V is not really accurate, although it is almost universally used. If you check the voltage at your wall outlets, they will read closer to 120V or 240V, in all probability. I have seen power company voltage as low as 112V a few times during maximum power demands in the summer but that isn't normal around here.

[Chris Yarish]

Will any upgrading be required if everything is 110 and if I never have more than 1 machine + my DC running at one time?
Looks like everything I will be buying will be 110, given my inability to purchase Grizzly machines.

[Sean Kinn]

Will any upgrading be required if everything is 110 and if I never have more than 1 machine + my DC running at one time?
Looks like everything I will be buying will be 110, given my inability to purchase Grizzly machines.

Everyone here tends to recommend for the overkill scenario. Some of us dream about having a shop full of 220v monsters, but for many of us this might never really happen and the initial expense of all the wiring can be quite a burden. If you are 99% sure you will never have a 220 machine (or maybe only 1) why not just have a single 220 outlet installed at a readily accesible location. Maybe even close to the new panel to keep wire costs down. You could then use a nice heavy 10 or 12 guage cord to get it to the one machine that requires it when you need it.

If you truly are going to stick to all 110, my recommendation is just to ensure that your dust collection is able to be plugged into a seperate circuit from your other tools. Many 110v tools draw near 15 amps and a 110 circuit typically can only support one such machine at a time.

[Chris Yarish]

Everyone here tends to recommend for the overkill scenario. Some of us dream about having a shop full of 220v monsters, but for many of us this might never really happen and the initial expense of all the wiring can be quite a burden. If you are 99% sure you will never have a 220 machine (or maybe only 1) why not just have a single 220 outlet installed at a readily accesible location. Maybe even close to the new panel to keep wire costs down. You could then use a nice heavy 10 or 12 guage cord to get it to the one machine that requires it when you need it.

If you truly are going to stick to all 110, my recommendation is just to ensure that your dust collection is able to be plugged into a seperate circuit from your other tools. Many 110v tools draw near 15 amps and a 110 circuit typically can only support one such machine at a time.

Yeah...I too dream of overkill, but my realities are much more humble.

When you say "ensure that your dust collection is able to be plugged into a seperate circuit from your other tools"....does this mean a separate outlet that is not wired into the same circuit as the machine outlets?
....or do you mean have it run directly off my circuit panel independent from everything else?

Thanks

[Sean Kinn]

Just make sure that it can be plugged into an outlet that is not on the same circuit that the main machine you're using is on.

This really shouldn't be a problem if you are having a few separate circuits wired up for the new shop. It's just something to keep in mind. I literally have one (yes....1) outlet in my one car garage. If I want to run the shop vac and router at the same time I need to run an extension cord into an adjacent hallway to draw power from a different circuit. Otherwise, I will not get maximum performance out of either, and I'll occasionally trip the breakers.

[Art Mann]

You can daisy chain 240V outlets just like you can 120V ones. At least it is not against any codes around here. I would recommend you at least put in one 240V 20A circuit. It won't cost any more than a 120V circuit and the chances are good you will regret not doing so. Most stationary power tools can be configured for either voltage, so you may be able to use it immediately as one of your newly installed circuits.

[Mark Blum]

I wired my entire basement shop by myself when I set it up about 6 years ago. While I too was encouraged to go with the overkill scenario I decided to keep it more humble. I put a new sub-panel in the shop off of a 60 amp breaker in the main box. 60-70 amps seemed to be the threshold for affordable components, as the wiring and breakers got considerably more expensive above that limit. Since I had a long run of 4/3 cable to feed the sub-panel I erred on the conservative side with the 60-amp breaker.

From the sub-panel I then ran three 220 circuits and four 110 circuits plus another circuit for the lights. I used 12/2 w/ground throughout. 10/2 would have been more difficult to work with in addition to being more expensive. Wiring receptacles in a box is hard enough with #12 wire, particularly wiring in a series, and #10 would be a bear. Since it is a basement shop I don't anticipate ever bringing down large enough equipment to need more than a 20-amp 220V circuit. In the very unlikely event that I need a 30A 220V circuit, I could run one off the sub-panel without too much difficulty.

In practice I have only needed one 220 circuit, for my TS. The other two have not been needed to this point, and as a reasonably skilled hobbiest woodworker I don't anticipate that will change anytime soon. I staggered the four 20-amp 110V general use circuits so that adjoining receptacles were on different circuits. I used different color receptacles for each circuit (brown, white, almond, grey) so that I could easily see which receptacles were on the same circuit.

I have been very pleased with the wiring in my shop and have not really regretted any of the decisions I made. The lights never dim and I've never tripped a breaker. I would imagine if you had the potential to really go with large equipment down the road you might want to upsize the 220V circuits, but my setup seems to be a good tradeoff between functionality and affordability with ease of installation.

[Sean Kinn]

I used different color receptacles for each circuit (brown, white, almond, grey) so that I could easily see which receptacles were on the same circuit.


Brilliant. So simple, and cheap, yet so useful. That's going in my dream shop planning file for sure.

[Art Mann]

Ditto Sean!

[Eric Haycraft]

I split each outlet so that the top was one pole, the bottom was another. That way I can have two things plugged in in the same spot but not worry about overloading. This method uses a lot le$$ wire too.

[Rob Russell]

I split each outlet so that the top was one pole, the bottom was another. That way I can have two things plugged in in the same spot but not worry about overloading. This method uses a lot le$$ wire too.

I hope that's wired on a 240v, 2-pole breaker or one of the other breakers that has handle ties for the 2 poles.

[Eric Haycraft]

Sure is :).. Probably should have mentioned that was necessary..along with breaking the tab off that connects the top and bottom outlets together (otherwise, pop, flash, expletive).

[Rob Russell]

... otherwise, pop, flash, expletive

You'd only forget once ... :D