Rabbit or crow for dinner?

[James Jaragosky]

Well here is where I eat some crow and give you all a chance to say I told you so.
I was fairly vocal back 2.5 months ago about my views on my decision to buy a Chinese laser.
I just don’t like buying large ticket items where you have to speak with the sales staff to get the price,
That just sets off all kinds of bells too me, such as their product is probably way over priced.
So I went with a chineese laser
I had it up and running in about a hour.
The software is very basic and some of the stuff you can do in Corel, and export straight to your lasers, will take me a few more steps. But I expected that, after all I didn’t pay all the over head of a domestic machine, so there has to be a down side somewhere.
But about 11 days ago I had a power loss issue, my machine was firing at about 1/3rd power and I was at a loss as to why. I assumed that if it was a power supply it would work or not work.
So I assumed that it was a tube (because of all the negative stuff I have read here about glass tubs)
And I had added rv antifreeze to my coolant mix.
So once I pulled the tube I was happy to see that it looked like it may have had a defect in it.( not really happy but not as worried that it was something major).
I had the good fortune to have purchased a spare tube with my laser so I installed it.
So after removing the rv mix and replacing it with straight distilled water
I installed the spare tube.
At this point my laser didn’t even put out 1/3 power any more, it put out nothing.
So I was very confused and contacted the local rep for rabbit lasers in Texas,
he had little suggestions the first night and said he would get back to me.
In the meantime I decided to reinstall the original tube to make sure that the spare was not defective. The original was still firing at 1/3 power, so the spare was defective. ( more on that later)
So for the next several days I wait until around midnight when the rabbit factory rep can contact me and china at the same time, and each night they ask me questions and have me look at stuff.
Well a couple days into this process my laser starts firing at 100% again.
But I got a new problem it quits in the middle of printing 80% of the time and usually on bigger files or slower speeds, but it could happen on anything I was engraving.
I was asked by the factory to check the ground, (It was fine)
I was told 12 x 12 files were too big, and that could cause my problem. (even though all the files I was trying had printed successfully in the past)
Anyway I got to thinking and tinkering and finely traced my problem to the power supply wire to the tube. it had a tiny crack in the shielding where it passed through the hole in the cabinet wall I had just enough extra wire to trim it down an re solder it back to the tube.
But my laser still quits in the middle of an occasional file. Or adds a errant line or two into a vector file. I don’t mind on the cheap plywood when this happens but I am worried about putting anything of value in there. Even if it is problem free 9 out of ten times I can’t take the chance.
Anyway about that bad spear tube. I just got a email telling me that because the tube had water in all the chambers, ( I discovered this when preparing to repackage the tube and was having a hell of a time emptying all of the water from the tube) that it had been blown and it was my problem, unless I wanted to pay to send it to them for testing, but they recommended that I not do this.
So what did I learn from all this
Domestic machines are overpriced
Chinese machines may not be a deal in the long haul
And I have a $3,300.00 laser I can’t trust to do the job right.
I really needed this to work. If it was not such a tragedy it would be funny.
I am going on 1 year after my layoff from the housing industry.
And I was actually starting to get some repeat business with the laser work
I even rented a booth in the local mall. Now I got a 1 year lease, orders, and a non dependable laser with very limited support.
If you have the money I would highly recommend getting a domestic machine they may be over priced but the sales staff speaks fluent English and you don’t have to wait up until midnight to speak to them.
If I had not quit drinking 2 and a half years ago Tonight would be a good night to have a few a try to forget that life can sometimes be a series tragedies that make a comedy.

[Eric Allen]

Really sorry to hear that you have had such trouble, any chance Synrad or Coherent might have something that could be retrofitted onto your current hardware? It wouldn't be cheap, but it wouldn't cost as much as getting a whole new system either.

[Dan Hintz]

James,

Consider picking up a new power supply and tube from eBay. 40W tubes and power supplies are around the $300/each mark.

[Vicky Orsini]

So sorry to hear about all the trouble you're having, James. Any chance you can get together with another laser operator in the area to sub out some of your work until you're back up and running? At least that way, you won't lose any of your current customers.

[Frank Corker]

James do you think it would be too late for you to consider leasing a smaller domestic machine? If your repeat orders were to get bigger it may even be a profitable investment. I too am sorry that you have had to go down this road, I am sure the disappointment must be enormous, I hope that luck favours you again soon.

[pete hagan]

James,
Like you I went to Chinese but I've been rather happy with my unit. I do have a more dependable setup so here are steps I would recommend.

1) start from scratch with the pci card and setup. Make sure your connections are rock solid. It would be good to mate / demate / mate these connections many times in case you have some oxidation on terminals which could cause your printing problems.
2) Your tiny crack in the wire will likely happen again if the wire is rubbing against bare metal. Measure the hole and get a gromet to protect that wire.
3) REALLY PUSH on the replacement tube issue. If you bought a new replacement tube for insurance (many of us here have) and did nothing to damage the tube I would stress with Frank getting a new tube.

4) There are several on the creek with your machine. If you know of any or can shout out I am sure many will help on the phone and debug the issue.

I agree that customer service is lacking with the rabbits but I do think for the money my unit has been great.

Good luck and keep up updated.

Pete

[David Lavaneri]

So what did I learn from all this?
Domestic machines are overpriced.
Chinese machines may not be a deal in the long haul.
And I have a $3,300.00 laser I can’t trust to do the job right.


James,

Domestic machines overpriced?

If the after sale support, reliability and advanced capabilities are there, maybe not as expensive as wrestling with the issues you've described.

Chinese not the deal?

Not all companies selling inexpensive Chinese equipment are created equal.

As with any equipment, some customer support people are more responsive and knowledgeable than others.

Can't trust the machine?

Hopefully your confidence will build after you're back up and running and have successfuly completed a number of jobs.

I'll be attending the Awards and Recognition Association (ARA) show in Las Vegas next month. There will be at least two companies selling Chinese laser equipment there.

Neither one will make inroads without superior customer support, at least not over the long haul.

David "The Stunt Engraver" Lavaneri

[Rodne Gold]

I connot understand why you are so quick to give up the project. Surely the issues you are facing right now are all surmountable. At the end of it all , if you cannot rely on the machine to engrave consumer supplied items right now , you can start making your own items and live with the 1/10th rejection rate. At least you can continue and at least sell stuff at your booth. This is what I would suggest,buy a perspex bender and learn how to glue pex 100% and then cut and make perspex (acrylic) items. If you can bend and glue , the possibilites are endless. You could start off with household items like soap dishes , toilet tissue holders , serviette holders , whiteboards , jewellery stands ,, ring stands. You could also do some commercial applications like buisness card holders , broschure stands , clip boards and so on.

[Bill Morrison]

From what I know, crow isn't that nutritious. I'll agree with Rodne, figure out what you can make with what you have until you get everything sorted out and working properly. I too am sorry to hear of the problems you are having but don't give up.

Good luck
Bill

[Scott Shepherd]

Sorry to hear that James, let's hope you get it back up and running soon. I hate to see anyone spend that kind of money and have something that's not working. Isn't there some sort of warranty on it? Certainly you should have at least some level of warranty and the ability to act on that warranty.

It's so new, I'm sure someone will go the extra mile to make it right and get you back up and running.

[Jim Dornon]

James, I to have a 3040. I find that if I have any other software running in addition to NewlyDraw it does that exact same thing. It will stop ingraving about 75% into the job, or it will compleately shut down my computer. I know it is a pain in the _ss not to have corel running in the backgroud. I usually create the job in corel, save it as a cdr file then save it as a plt file. Shut down corel and import the plt file into NewlyDraw. Also, how much memory does your computer have. It is not like the 6090 were you can send the fike to the engraver and still work on the computer. It uses the computer while engraving ! Hope this helps. Anything else I can do please let me know. I have worked out alot of bugs.:eek:

[David Hirschfield]

James, as a fellow Rabbit owner, it sound to me the problem may be software related. Have you tried reinstalling the software?

My experience is that the Rabbit hardware is reliable. My machine was stored for a few months because I had contracted to do other work. When I reconnected it I reversed the water feed and return and it wouldn't fire. Long story short, after posting on this and other forums, I was able to catch my mistake, kick myself and continue on. Try to reseat the connectors, check the ground connections are making contact.

Hope you find the bug quickly.
David

[James Jaragosky]

Well my post seems to have generated me some luck.
Frank has generously agreed to replace defective my spare tube.
He and his engineers seem to think I may have a defective motion card and want me to send in my old one and they will send me a new one no charge.
Jim: that is an interesting observation about the newely draw acting up with other programs open.
David: I have reinstalled newelydraw. With no difference in performance.

I use 2 different computers to work a image, I run the image through corel and photograv on my main box (duel core hp pavilion a1450n with 2 gig of ram and ati 1950xtx graphic card.) and a second computer (dell pent 4 with 1 gig ram and 250 gig hd stock graphics card duel dvd drives) that only has xp pro newelydraw and the necessary drivers to connect to my network loaded onto it.
After I finish with a image and am ready to engrave I import the image using newelydraw on the dell from the hp. Then print.
Jim: I can put a image on a flash drive and plug it into the dell with it off network and see if that makes a difference.

Fixing the short seems to have fixed any issues I have when I raster an image, but I still have errant lines that pop up in my vector projects. (See attached link to photos)
http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l262/jrj5x5/012108picturesofwork010.jpg
http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l262/jrj5x5/012108picturesofwork012.jpg
http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l262/jrj5x5/012108picturesofwork008.jpg
http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l262/jrj5x5/012108picturesofwork007.jpg
All these images were vector cuts one after another same file no changes except speed and power as noted, the image without speed and power noted was done at 10 speeds and 1% power.

Sorry for the disparaging post, I currently got a lot on my mind, as everyone else does, I just let it all get to me after that last email from the rabbit rep.
I will either make it work or I won’t . either way the good lord has helped me make it this far, no reason to believe he won’t prod me along now. Thanks for all the tips and well wishes.
I will let you all know how this shakes out.
Jim j.

[Dan Hintz]

Jim,

If the Chinese software is as poorly written as I suspect it is, it most likely has memory leaks and dangling pointers all over the place. I bet if you run all of the programs you would normally have open before running your laser controller, then don't flip back to them until you're finished with the print job, the jobs would run to completion without error. What's most likely happening is the laser controller is grabbing memory that doesn't belong to it, you open or use another program that plays by the rules but steps on the currently used (but illegally claimed) memory, and the laser controller software can't cope when it has data that's being overwritten.

[Jim Dornon]

Dan,
Is there a way to avoid this leakage and dangler problem ? Maybe more memory for the engraver ?

[Jim Dornon]

Jim,
Have you tried saving it as a different type of file ?

[Dan Hintz]

Dan,
Is there a way to avoid this leakage and dangler problem ? Maybe more memory for the engraver ?
Not really... if that is the problem, the only solution is for them to clean up the code. More memory might change the behavior, but it would only mask the problem... more memory may allow the laser software to illegally grab memory farther out, memory that won't be touched so quickly by starting other programs.

[Dee Gallo]

jAMES - you helped me with my problems, here's an explanation for one of yours:

Those errant lines you are getting come from the bezier lines having a point that's been pulled out of whack. This happens sometimes if you rotate a line drawing or if you tweak a line that's got a zillion points. Go into your drawing at a high magnification and you will see the crazy line. You can see where it starts clearly in your 2nd photo. Trace it back to its point and delete the point. It will probably not effect your drawing one bit, but it will eliminate those extended lines. Test to see if it worked by scrolling elsewhere on the page and then back. If the line (or at least the base of it) is gone, you fixed it. If not, you didn't get the right point. This happens to me all the time if I draw a line by dragging instead of clicking, but I've seen it happen with clipart too. Whoever made that design probably duplicated the sections and rotated them, causing the problem.

cheers, dee

[Jim Dornon]

James, have you fixed your 3040 ? I tried engraving a photo yesterday. If I have the speed at 500 (max) it goes from the top of the pic to the bottom fireing what looks like each pixle. After slowing the speed down it will engrave a little ways then jump down about half way of the pic and continue. Frustraighting to say the least. Jim

[James Jaragosky]

James, have you fixed your 3040 ? I tried engraving a photo yesterday. If I have the speed at 500 (max) it goes from the top of the pic to the bottom fireing what looks like each pixle. After slowing the speed down it will engrave a little ways then jump down about half way of the pic and continue. Frustraighting to say the least. Jim
Jim thanks for asking.
My HX3040 has mixed results as far as to whether it is fixed or not.
New quirky problems seem to keep popping up.
My latest quirky manifestation is that if I pause the machine while it is rastering an image, the laser head starts to travel back the way it came when I continue the job.
It never did that before. So it looks like I will take frank up on a new motion card.
Just hate to have the machine down any longer. It appears to raster an image just fine without any problems, as long as I let it go start to finish without any interruptions.
It will occasionally add extra random errant lines when vector cutting a larger file. It seems ok on small files.
As for your problem: You mentioned 500 max speed my max is listed at 600.
You stated “After slowing the speed down it will engrave a little ways then jump down about half way of the pic and continue.”
Did it engrave fine at the max speed?
Did you try to slow the speed down on the same image half way through?
Or was it a separate attempt?
Can you send me the file so I can try and run it, and see what results I get?
I can send you a good image file if you would like, so you can run on your machine, that way you will have something to compare your current results with.
Let me know if I can help
Jim j.

[Glenwood Morris]

Given that most domestic manufacturers support machines that have been sold to new owners. My recommendation (because this is how I did it and it's worked out well so far) is to buy a used domestic and have 2 grand sitting in a savings account for fixing anything that might go wrong (I had a tube and CPU go bad in the first 2 months, thing ran PERFECT when I bought it).

I have a great machine now and I spent about 1/3 or less of the cost of a new one (even after adding the cost of a tube and cpu).

[Dee Gallo]

Glenwood, I did the same thing you did when I started out a little over 3 years ago. I found a used Epilog Eclipse on eBay, got lucky and it has paid for itself over and over again. No repairs or problems whatsoever. It's now a 15 year old dinosaur, but still putting out good work. I have been told the bulb should not have lasted this long, but I guess I got a good one! I bought a Chinese laser as a backup, which I unpacked but never fired up, and have decided to sell it. It's list in the SMC classified now. I'm buying another Epilog - better safe than sorry when it comes to being on a deadline. And it's an awful lot better than handcarving, which is what I WAS doing.

I think if I had more tech knowledge like some of the other Creekers here, I might be more inclined to keep the cheap laser and work it out, but I'm an artist/producer, not a fixer. Down time stresses me out. I live on the outskirts of nowhere - there are no "local" dealers or techs to call on. So, to each his own, right?

[Eric Fuller]

Hi Dee,

I'll take that laser. Sorry to post here but for some reason the forum would not let me post in the classifieds section. Check your PM box :)

[Eric Fuller]

Sorry, double post. Mods please delete :)

[Scott Shepherd]

Sorry to post here but for some reason the forum would not let me post in the classifieds section. Check your PM box :)

Because you are a member, not a contributor. Only contributors are allowed to post in the classified section if I understand it correctly.

[Eric Fuller]

Well, actually, I donated $20 a few weeks ago but never received any confirmation or reply. Not too worried about it either way, but it would have been nice to be able to post my response directly there.

[Scott Shepherd]

Eric, I didn't mean anything by my post other than your status shows as a member. Member status is what keeps you from posting there, if I understand it correctly. If you gave, that's between you and Keith, I'm just stating the reason you couldn't post there, and that's because your status is a member (rightly or wrongly).

Contact Keith, you should have changed status by now if you paid him a couple of weeks ago.

[Eric Fuller]

Thanks Scott...sorry if that came off as sounding defensive; didn't mean it that way :)

[David Hirschfield]

James, I don't know if this has anything to do with your problems but when I import an Illustrator drawing with guides into Lasercut 5, the import as infinitely long lines that I can't seem to get rid of. My solution is to delete them in Illustrator and reimport. Happens to me in other programs too. I know you use Newlydraw, so it may be different for you.

David