Best TS for $450-$650????

[Deuce Lee]

What's the best that one can get for under $650? Spending the lesser is actually preferred (would rather get best bang for the buck).

1. JET JPS-30 - $630 shipped @ amazon. Hybrid.

2. Ridgid JWTS-3650 - $580 total @ HD. Contractor style.

3. Please recommend other.

I might be able to get a 20% HD coupon so that would make the Ridgid $464, so take in consideration WITH and WITH OUT the coupon, what you'd do.

background: I'm not a wood pro, this is just for a hobby, I'll be using it to make speaker boxes, home and car, some cabinets, general house projects, etc...

thanks
Deuce

[Matthew Poeller]

I do not have experience with their tablesaws but I have been pleased with the other stuff that I have purchased from them. Does anyone else have any experience with their saws? At any rate it is worth a look. I wish I knew about them when I bought my jet contractor saw.

[Tim Malyszko]

The ridgid is a nice saw, but it's a contractor saw so it will have a 1 1/2 hp motor that hands off the back vs. the bigger 1 3/4 hp motor on the jet that is concealed. Basically, with the jet, you get a little more HP with a slightly smaller footprint.

With that being said, I have the Ridgid and am pleased with it, other than the power. For 90% of what I do, it's fine, but I cannot really venture working with many of the dense exotics or 8/4 and thicker domestics without the motor severly bogging down. Other than that, it's been a great saw.

If I had the choice between the two, I would probably go with the Jet (assumming that it has good reviews) based soley on the bigger, internal motor.

Also, don't count on the 20% Home Depot coupon. Counterfits were so wide spread a year ago that just about all HD's stopped honoring them. They have since moved to a scanable coupon with a unique serial number and those are extremely hard to get. Anything on Ebay or on-line for that matter are almost surely fakes.

If you do get the discount, however, I would go with the Ridgid. It really is a very reliable saw for your pricerange.

Good Luck.

[rocky brown]

also consider the sears craftsman 22114 hybrid. although it's a little over your budget, it has the advantages of better dust collection and an enclosed motor. the fence is also, imho, slightly better than the ridgid. i owned the ridgid before i up-graded to the 22124 and it served me well. i built a saw station around mine with a built in router cabinet that worked quite well for my situation.

another thing- if at all possible buy a cabinet saw now and save yourself money in the long run. i've been through 4 saws since i started this hobby 3 years ago...

rb

[John Shuk]

I'd go for the Rigid. I've never heard a bad word about it and for the money it includes a mobile base.

[Josh Youngman]

I have the Ridgid, for the price you cant beat it. Cast iron wings, accurate and solid fence, mobile base, dust collection (works pretty good).

The power of the motor has not been a problem for me. I regularly cut 8/4 walnut and maple with no bogging. the other day i ripped 12/4 walnut for some table legs with a 50tooth combo blade, as long as i went slow it was fine. yesterday i did the same but switched to my 24t rip blade and it went right thru with zero bogging.

I run an 8" dado stack in it and have no bogging with that either.

[John Lemke]

Add me to the list of happy TS3650 users. Right around Easter last year, HD ran an instant rebate deal that meant I got it for $450, and it's been well worth that. Toughest job I've given it was ripping 8/4 oak. I used a 24T rip blade, and it was slick. All in all, I've found it easy to adjust and really like the cast iron wings.

[Joe Chritz]

I use the Ridgid and it is a lot of saw for the money.

The best saw by far for that price range would be a used Unisaw if you can find one.

Joe

[Art Mann]

I also have the Ridgid and I believe it is one the the best saws of its type. The fence is particularly nice. It glides smoothly along the rails and always stays parallel to the miter slot. If you use thin kerf blades, the power is adequate for hobbyist needs, IMHO, although 1 3/4 hp would certainly be appreciated. I would rate dust control only fair, even if you use the shop vac port on the blade shroud. The Jet wuld probably be better. Also, the motor hanging out the back does tend to get in the way.

Overall, I might be tempted to go with the Jet but for one reason. I used to have a contractor saw with stamped steel wings and got rid of it because, over time, they tended to bend and not stay flat with the cast iron table. Maybe the Jet wouldn't do that, but I would hate to find out otherwise 3 years from now.

[Bill Lantry]

I have the ridgid, love it, would recommend it. But...

If you can stretch your budget just a little, you could get this:

go to grizzly, and search for the G0478 (http://www.grizzly.com/products/2-HP-Hybrid-Cabinet-Saw/G0478)

You're going to have the saw a long time. I got the ridgid, knowing someday I'd like to upgrade. But it's good enough that I have found other tools I need more. Still, if I had to turn back the clock... ;)

If I'd had that grizzly, I never would have sprung for the incra fence. And the cost of the two combined is way more than the grizzly... ;) Oh, and don't forget, you'll need a better miter gauge too... ;)

Thanks,

Bill

[scott spencer]

By design, the hybrid has all the advantages over the 60 year old contractor design that's becoming a dinosaur. Very soon there will be no more contractor saws even on the market for that reason. A lot of us have owned and made nice things with a contractor saw, but you're facing a chance to make an upgrade that didn't exist for most of us. The hybrids offer many of the advantages of a cabinet saw. I think the Jet is heck of a deal, even with steel wings (which will hold up fine, and can be upgrade if you'd like)....in it's favor, it has an extremely good steel fence, and none of the issues with an outboard motor.

The 22114 is an excellent choice as well.

All in all, you'll get a nice saw regardless of which you choose, so go with the one that floats your boat. :)

[Matt Schell]

I have been happy with my Bridgewood contractor saw but I guess that is not an option anymore.

As always don't forget about the used market.

I always find it interesting to see what alot of the creekers are able to do with smaller, older saws especially if you are in a small shop.

[keith micinski]

Lowes has the Delta 36-979 for 400. You get two cast iron wings and built in movable base. At that budget rather then buy a substandard hybrid I bought the best contractors saw I could get. You then have the option of buying a t-2 fence from lowe's for 135 which is a better fence then any of the fences that come with the other saws by far or you could spend a little more and get a little better after market fence although the t-2 really is a good fence. This is the best way to go because if for some reason you upgrade to a good hybrid or cabinet saw later you can still use your fence where as the other fence options are designed to be used with there saws. To me after using a craftsman saw from the 60's for years the fence is the biggest key. I would still be using my saw if it wasn't for the crappy fence that came with it.

[scott spencer]

Lowes has the Delta 36-979 for 400. You get two cast iron wings and built in movable base. At that budget rather then buy a substandard hybrid I bought the best contractors saw I could get. You then have the option of buying a t-2 fence from lowe's for 135 which is a better fence then any of the fences that come with the other saws by far or you could spend a little more and get a little better after market fence although the t-2 really is a good fence. This is the best way to go because if for some reason you upgrade to a good hybrid or cabinet saw later you can still use your fence where as the other fence options are designed to be used with there saws. To me after using a craftsman saw from the 60's for years the fence is the biggest key. I would still be using my saw if it wasn't for the crappy fence that came with it.

Sorry Keith, but there's some inaccurate info about the fences. Anyone of the fences that comes with anyone of the saws mentioned can be retrofitted to just about any full size contractor, hybrid, or cabinet saw.

I know it's a matter of opinion but I'd like to know what makes the Jet "substandard" in your view....it's a third generation hybrid with a very well thought out design that eclipses most of those that came before it. The fence on the Proshop kinda of reminds me of a T2, and has received very high praise from reviewers....I'm curious what makes the T2 better "by far"?

[Art Mann]

It is a matter of opinion as to whether the T2 fence is better than the one that comes on the Ridgid. I have tried both and prefer the Ridgid. It slides more smoothly along the rail and stays square with the miter groove better. Perhaps it won't last as long because it is aluminum, but I know for a fact that two years of heavy use won't wear it out or even make it need adjustments. I would invite anyone who doubts what I say to actually go try both of these fences and see which one you prefer. Your experience may differ.

The one review I read of the Jet Proshop bragged on that fence too.

I used a Craftsman saw for 20 years and also know what it is like to use a sorry fence but experience with that saw is not relevant to the Ridgid.

[keith micinski]

That rigid fence is not terrible but after using it a little bit it needed to constantly be adjusted to stay square and when it locked down it would shift on me. The jet I know less about, but I am not a big fan of a hybrid saw because it is a compromise and I would rather not spend 650 for a saw with stamped steel wings. The Delta has basically the same power, two cast iron wings,and a built in movable base. The Jet exacta fence is terrible so I have little faith in the proshop fence they produce. A 120 dollars is a good savings when the only thing the Jet does better is dust collection.

[scott spencer]

...A 120 dollars is a good savings when the only thing the Jet does better is dust collection.

I don't mean to be picking on you Keith...I don't own the Jet, but am just trying highlight accurate info so the OP can make an informed decision. There's quite a bit more to the advantages than improved DC. You've overlooked less floor space, a shorter drive belt (lower vibration, better power transfer), more efficient belt style (more power transfer advantages), the advantages of a one-piece cast trunnion carriage vs the steel rods on the Delta that is more prone to racking, the advantages of not having an outboard motor, and more mass. Those are typically all design improvements over a contractor saw in general, not compromises. CI wings are a "nice to have" plus in favor of the Delta and Ridgid, over the Jet, but CI is a $100 option.

The aluminum Jet Fence was inferior to the fence on the Proshop and is an unrelated design.

[glenn bradley]

You can really narrow the field if you factor in dust collection. I survived with a contractor saw for quite awhile but, where I live I can work with the garage door open 10 months out of the year. As I gathered more tools, a little privacy seemed like a good idea.

I got the Sears zipcode saw on a labor day sale combined with the Craftsman Club discount and met your budget. For the price I paid I figured I bought the fence motor and blade and the saw was free.

Back to your situation right now (excluding used or a restoral project); if DC is a concern you will want a hybrid. If it is not such a concern, Griz and others make some 'extreme' contractor saws that are real nice. The Ridgid 36xx always seems to get praise here as well.

Now wasn't that specific and oh-soooo helpful ;-) Don't panic, take your time and enjoy your purchase. I would stay away from anything thatI would immediately have to throw a new fence or improved extension tables at. Why bother when there are plenty of quality saw available right out of the box.

P.s. I love my Beis fence and you could park a car on it without much fear. I did run an aluminum fence for quite awhile and had no issues. The main concern with aluminum extrusions is that IF they get damaged they are pretty much toast. I did a lot of work with mine (while I was learning and extremely 'not good') and my dad is still using it quite happily. Just more food for thought.

[keith micinski]

I wasn't overlooking the difference's between a hybrid and a contractor.A cabinet saw is a better design then a contractor saw. A hybrid saw is a compromise between these two saws that is a fact. I am not disputing that. A contractors saw is not the outdated useless piece of junk that most people try to make it sound like it is around here. For 99% of people a contractors saw will more then do the job. I always overlook the smaller foot print because if the 9 extra inches the motor hangs out is really a factor you are going to have bigger issues in the long run. Plus the delta comes with a mobile base so a foot print now doesn't matter. Those stamped steel wings are terrible and absolutely have to be upgraded. And where I am sure the jet has less vibration scientifically I haven't even upgraded to machined pulleys and link belt yet because I can stand a nickel on end on my saw as it is now and you don't need it to be any smoother then that to do wood working. Now with cast iron wings and a mobile base you have raised the price to 750 to 800 maybe more with the base. In his original post he really wanted to be closer to the 450 mark. He has now almost doubled the price of his saw for a smaller foot print of 9 whole inches and less vibration that is going to be unnoticeable and is getting real close to "just spend a 100 more and get a grizzly 3 horse cabinet saw." At 800 dollars the jet with cast wings and a mobile base is probably a better saw although I don't know about that fence. The problem is it is 800 dollars for all those advantages.

[keith micinski]

Don't get me wrong I understand that there are engineering differences between a hybrid and a contractors but sometimes you have weigh those advantages to the price they cost. A contractors saw really is more saw then almost anyone but a professional wood worker needs to do a project and some times I admit I get a little irritated when the impression is given that contractors saw's are almost unusable and that is just not the case.

[Brian Dormer]

I'd give a strong vote for the Craftsman 22114. I see and hear lots of moaning about the fence, but I've never had a problem with mine. It locks in parallel and stays there. I've sliced paper thin veneer with just the stock fence. If you have a C-man club card (and they put the saw on sale) - you can fit it into your budget.

The Ridgid 3650 would be a good second choice - but you have to deal with BORG to get one. And they are generally clueless. My local store had one in stock - but it's since vanished and when I asked about it, they had no idea what I was talking about (one bozo took me to the circular saws..... sheesh!)

Grizzly's going to eat up your budget in shipping.

Bosch has a new - real nice portable saw that might fit the bill - but you'll probably want something more permanent. You could always build a stand for it.

[rocky brown]

to simplify:

if you're going to get a contractor's saw get the ridgid. it has cast iron extensions, a decent fence, and, if you can get it for +/- $450 it's the best saw for the money.

rb

[keith micinski]

It looks like the best price on the rigid is going to be 550. In which case you could get the delta cheaper so I would go that way. If you could get the rigid for 450 then I would get that one. Can you get a zero clearence throat plate for the rigid?

[Fred Woodward]

I've had the Rigid for several years and have never had issues with the motor or fence. Very smooth moving the fence and it locks solid. I routinely cut 8/4 and 12/4 walnut with no issues. Dust collection is OK but not as good as a cabinet saw; better than most contractor saws though.
I've recently purchased a used PM66 and am overhauling it but I will have more in it than your budget before it is completed. If you can find a good used cabinet saw you might be able to stay in your budget and do better than a contractor type saw.
I've never used a Jet saw but I have used the Delta contractor saw. I would go for the Rigid over the Delta. Just my opinion.

[Vic Damone]

I have the TS 3650, as contractor saw's go it's been OK. I strongly suggest a hybrid or used cabinet saw. Any contractor takes up too much space with the motor hanging out the back and dust management is usually poor. While the Rigid blade guard is easy to remove and instal, hanging over the rear edge of the table is IMO outdated.

The amount of table after the blade on the Rigid is very short. Designing and building an intermediate outfeed table that clears the motor assembly in all its positions can be tricky but not impossible. With all that's available I simply wouldn't recommend any contractor saw.

Vic

[Art Mann]

Keith,

Is your experience with Ridgid the TS3650 model or some other? The reason I ask is that after I adjusted my fence over 2 years ago, I haven't done anything to it since except check it for parallel with the miter groove. It never needs adjustment. I have never seen the fence move when it is locked down. In fact, the front to rear clamping mechanism does not exert any side to side pressure to make it move one way or the other. That is a property of the T style fences.

By chance, I went shopping at Lowes since I made my last post and ran up on a Delta saw with a T2 fence. Just like what i had seen before, the side to side motion was sloppy and the angle of the fence with respect to the miter slot changed as the fence was locked down. I couldn't stand it any more so I whipped out my trusty Leatherman and worked on it there in the store for about 10 minutes. The salesman stared at me like I was crazy, but didn't say anything. I finally got it to where it worked well. The key to it is to adjust the spring steel pieces on the under side of the "T" part so that it applies enough force to keep the fence square, but not so much as to make the fence hard to slide. Based on that, my attitude towards the fence has improved to the point I might even buy one. I still like the Ridgid better. It is still smoother in operation. The other thing I noticed is that the T2 is heavy and is less convenient to remove and reinstall. As I mentioned before, that extra weight might pay off in extra durability, but I haven't had any problems with the Ridgid either. I use it several hours a week.

By the way, I have to disagree with Scott about contractor style saws going obsolete. The configuration with the motor sticking out the back is clearly cheaper to manufacture and does not compromise cut quality. There will always be a market for the less expensive option, even with its inherent disadvantages. By comparison, tablesaws with direct drive universal motors are clearly inferior to the ones with induction motors and belt drive. But you still see them being sold because they are cheap.

[M. A. Espinoza]

There is also this:

http://grizzly.com/products/10-2-HP-Contractor-Style-Table-Saw-with-riving-knife/G0661

Problem is nobody owns one yet so you have to be a guinea pig. Potentially a good tool but a pretty different carriage design.

Jet will be offering the Proshop saws later this year with a riving knife, but they say it could be around Sept. so thats a bit of a wait.

I agree with others that a good contractor saw will be a useful tool. I don't own a "good" contractor saw so I would lean towards the Jet. Good reports on the new design and Jet makes decent quality machines.

I think you would be well served with either, the only potential issue with a the Ridgid is if you plan on doing many bevel cuts in your work. The hanging motor design is more prone to twisting and having to be realigned (although they don't use the twin torque tubes, which is good). But if you keep it at 90 I doubt there would be any difference between the two in use.

Ridgid has the advantages of mobility and price. Jet has a better fence with the 50" option and possibly a bit more power and no hanging motor.

I think it depends on your shop configuration and the type of work you will be doing. If you can let the saw stay put and work with sheet goods go with the Jet and 50" fence; build it into a shop table and don't bother with the stamped wings. If you have to shuffle your machines around or don't cut down much ply then go with the Ridgid.

I can't recommend any contractor that uses the twin tube carriage design (such as the Delta) when there are options that don't use them. Those designs will work but if you have the choice of not ever having to realign these tubes then take it.

[keith micinski]

It kills me you guys keep offering him 800 dollar saws for his 450 budget. Not to side track the thread but I was really worried about aligning the trunion with the mitre slot after reading about how difficult it is on this web site. I heard it takes up to 40 minutes and the "Pals" system is a must. My saw came out of the Box .003 out and it took 2 minutes to loosen one bolt bump it and tighten it back up to make it perfect. I have checked three times and it has not moved or racked and if it did it would be a matter of 2 more minutes to fix. The Rigid saw is not a bad saw at all. Its the fence I have a problem with. I had troubles with the fence but maybe it was just a bad fence. I will say the fact that it weighs about 2 pounds and all of the other top fences weigh significantly more worries me. Also can you adjust the verticle plane of that fence to square it up with the table? I don't remember but I didn't think so. I did like the dust collection on the Rigid but I couldn't really tell if it makes a difference because I didn't use the saw that much.

[Chuck Lenz]

I'm with Keith on this one. At the price the original poster wanted to spend on a saw I'd be going to Lowes and looking at the Delta 36-979 and throwing the T2 fence on it for under $600. Scott, a set of wings are not $100, they are $100 EACH. And I'm getting a little tired of you calling my saw a dinasaur also. As far as dust collection on a Contractors saw goes, how many times do I need to tell you people what I have works ? You can drop that off your contractors saw bashing list anytime now. I don't need to spend abunch of money to buy a hybrid or a cabinet saw to do that. Even if it's the IN thing to do. The motor hanging out the back takeing up valueable realestate in the shop is another gripe I never understood when most times you have some type of board support behind the saw anyway. I have been a woodworker for quite awhile, I don't have alot of money, but that doesn't mean I can't make anything decent because I don't have a hybrid or a cabinet saw. This place I think turns into a rat race of tools at times, makes me wonder how much woodworking really gets done.

[scott spencer]

I'm with Keith on this one. At the price the original poster wanted to spend on a saw I'd be going to Lowes and looking at the Delta 36-979 and throwing the T2 fence on it. Scott, a set of wings are not $100, they are $100 EACH. And I'm getting a little tired of you calling my saw a dinasaur also. As far as dust collection on a Contractors saw goes, how many times do I need to tell you people what I have works ? I don't need to spend abunch of money to buy a hybrid or a cabinet saw to do that. Even if it's the IN thing to do. I have been a woodworker for quite awhile, I don't have alot of money, but that doesn't mean I can't make anythging decent because I don't have a cabinet saw. This place I think turns into a rat race of tools at times, makes me wonder how much woodworking really gets done.

Chuck, you can get the Jet ProShop with two cast iron wings for ~ $725...less than $100 more than the steel wings....on sale for ~ $650. I've never suggested you need to buy a new saw, but the OP is looking for one...I'd think he'd like to know what the latest advances are. The issues associated with a contractor saw will be part of his life for years to come if he goes that route, but there's now an option that didn't exist for many of us...the $630 hybrid has some growing room even he can't budget every feature he'd like, the contractor saw can be "enhanced" but the warts will always be there.

The hybrid offers better DC it's stock form, and more. The writing's on the wall... there are many advantages with the hybrid design, and few disadvantages. It's the future of homeshop saws where a contractor saw formerly fit the bill...that's why so many are being introduced while the contractor saw market retreats. It really has a limited future in the new saw marketplace. I'd guess within a few more years, the only new contractor saws with outboard motors will be "new old stock".

[Joe Chritz]

A long time ago I posted some pics of the dust collection mods I made for the Ridgid. It collects all the dust that goes under the table. An overarm guard is needed.

All the other advantages of a Hybrid or cabinet saw that have been mentioned are definate advantages.

I have wanted to upgrade my Ridgid for a long time but it keeps on chugging away and something else always comes up I want/need more.

A used cabinet saw would be my first choice but only because I know I am going to want one anyway. A hybrid could very well be a last table saw purchase.

Joe

[Chuck Lenz]

Scott, I'm not totally sold on the conception that Contractors saws are gone or are going to be. I think there is still a market out there for people that need a better saw than a benchtop or small construction site saw, but can't afford a hybrid or a cabinet saw. Tuned up, adding a link belt, and hooking up a DC the right way, these saws aren't as bad as you make them out to be.

[keith micinski]

Hey, if I could get a hybrid for the same price as a contractors saw I would do it. Right now you can't even come close. I don't have any problem with you informing someone of there options, but remember if something is better that doesn't mean the thing it is better then is bad. I really don't understand why people get so worked up over the motor hanging out the back because of space. I understand a lot of time shop space is at a premium but if 9 more inches is going to break you then you are probably going to have bigger problems later on.

[Deuce Lee]

I must praise everyone for their input in such a short amount of time, when i have a little more time (probably tomorrow), i'll go over the replies more in dept...

but from reading the first page or so, it looks like if i can get that ridgid for 20% off, it would be a heck of a deal and i should probably go for it, otherwise the jet would be a hell of a deal too for $630, and even tho the jps30 has a stamped steel table instead of cast iron, it'll hold up just fine in the long run...

thanks a bunch everyone!!

if you got any more cents to throw in, please do so! thanks!!!

[Art Mann]

Tablesaws with motors either under the trunion or out to the side have been available for decades. There is no new innovation - only a new name for an old concept and a somewhat lower price point. If they didn't cost more to make, low cost cabinet style saws ("hybrids") would have long since taken over the contractor market. Contractor type saws are still popular and will remain popular because they are less expensive to manufacture. If you are in the market for a quality $550 tablesaw, the contractor configuration is the only show in town. In order to get a so called hybrid to that price point, you have to cheapen it down with stamped steel wings or some other shortcut. A $900 saw is not going to make a $500 saw obsolete.

Edit: A thought just occurred to me. There are those who believe the Sawstop technology will make all other saws obsolete and kill the market for regular cabinet saws. That ain't gonna happen either and for exactly the same reason.

[keith micinski]

If you decide to get the Jet spend whatever it takes to get the cast iron wings. At that much money you got have a good working surface. Also one thing I found out is if you are going to spend good money on any saw make sure you get some sort of precision tool to align everything and keep it in tune. I bought a ts-aligner jr. lite and kind of wish I would have spent a little more and just got the lite but there are plenty of options out there and a good tune on your saw and fence and mitre gauge will really help any saw.

[Tom Quatsoe]

I know someone with the Rigid, fense is just fine and it works very well once you get a good blade on it. (He added a Forrest WWII) The same is likely the case for the jet, so save room in your budget for a top notch blade and you'll be happy.

Tom

[glenn bradley]

Duece, sorry you've gotten a lot of suggestions outside your price range. I'm even sorrier that some of this thread has turned ugly. If you have trouble sorting through it, hopefully you have a Lowe's and a Home Depot nearby. That will let you get your hands on the Delta and the Ridgid contractors. You can see for yourself if the large footprint is going to be a problem or not; it wasn't for me for a year or so . . . then I went and bought more tools.

All kidding aside, try to get your hands on the saws. See how you feel about the fit and finish. I dumped an extra 100lbs in the base of my contractor, added the link belts and machined pulleys, PAL's, etc. and it performed very well. I think I already mentioned that my dad is still using it, aluminum fence and all and is quite happy.

[Bas Pluim]

I have the JET ProShop, and it's an awesome saw. You definitely want cast iron wings though, and that puts it outside of your price range. I would not get it with the steel wings.

So, unless you get lucky and find a good sale somewhere, go with the Ridgid. It has gotten great reviews, and there are many satisfied owners. Worst case, you use it for a few years and decide you want something "more". In that case you can sell it on Craig's List and get half your money back. Plus, then you know exactly what you want in your next saw. Most likely, you'll be happy with the Ridgid and make boxes and speakers with it for the next 25 years.

[Deuce Lee]

glenn, i will take your tip and go to lowes and hd and check them out...i'm getting a 10% coupon to go with it, better then nothing :p

keith, thanks for all your inputs as well, and everyone else as well, thanks a lot...

[Jim O'Dell]

Deuce, I have the older grey Ridgid 3612. Nothing wrong with the saw. The 3650 should be fine. Look at the Delta. The one's I've seen at Lowes had the stamped steel extensions.
This 10% HD coupon, is it a movers coupon? If not, where are you getting it? I need one to go get a Makita SCMS at HD. Was waiting on a sale at Amazon, but the extra Christmas money I've been waiting on came in the form of an HD gift card. So, I'll either need to wait on the purchase, or get it at HD, and the 10% extra off would make a big difference. Jim.

[Deuce Lee]

Deuce, I have the older grey Ridgid 3612. Nothing wrong with the saw. The 3650 should be fine. Look at the Delta. The one's I've seen at Lowes had the stamped steel extensions.
This 10% HD coupon, is it a movers coupon? If not, where are you getting it? I need one to go get a Makita SCMS at HD. Was waiting on a sale at Amazon, but the extra Christmas money I've been waiting on came in the form of an HD gift card. So, I'll either need to wait on the purchase, or get it at HD, and the 10% extra off would make a big difference. Jim.

yes it's the movers coupon...go to hd moving and sign up for that gardener's club iirc...and sign up for the movers thingy at lowes to get their 10% off, and hell, i heard hd will even take lowes coupon...

thanks for your 2 cents too

[Chuck Tringo]

I have the JET ProShop, and it's an awesome saw. You definitely want cast iron wings though, and that puts it outside of your price range. I would not get it with the steel wings.

So, unless you get lucky and find a good sale somewhere, go with the Ridgid. It has gotten great reviews, and there are many satisfied owners. Worst case, you use it for a few years and decide you want something "more". In that case you can sell it on Craig's List and get half your money back. Plus, then you know exactly what you want in your next saw. Most likely, you'll be happy with the Ridgid and make boxes and speakers with it for the next 25 years.

I have the Jet proshop as well, and agree it is a great saw. I firmly disagree with the previous poster who seems to think the delta t2 fence is superior to the proshop fence, in fact te t2 is the exact reason i DID not buy the delta. The proshop is far smoother and more ridgid that the t2s i have looked at set up at the blue borg, ive touched at least 3 in different cities. (always stop to see whats on clearance when traveling :D) I did buy the one with steel wings however, but i did so because i already owned the bench dog CI router table extension. I also plan to buyt a workbench extension (similar to the one sold as an option for the PM2000, except smaller). If you plan on having the saw for 10 years or more, I would definatly recomend spending the extra 1-200 and go with the Proshop, steel wings or no. Its alot cheaper to upgrade extensions than an entire saw. Although i like the fence on the ridgid, I believe the one on the proshop is far superior (one magazine rated it better than any other hybrid that they tested, including the bise on the delta/Cman) Other things you will save on; the proshop comes with machined pulleys; the dust collection is built in so you wont need to modify/add that later; and the trunion adjustment is easier than on a contractors and you wont need pals. The only thing you really lose is that you have to pay extra for a mobile base.

[Joe Chritz]

On the subject of stamped wings.

At least for me, a cast iron wing is used for lots of things besides wood sliding over it.

Having had both, cast wings would be a must have for me.

Joe

[Chuck Lenz]

Look at the Delta. The one's I've seen at Lowes had the stamped steel extensions.

The Delta 36-979 has the cast iron wings, and the 36-978 has the stamped steel wings. The 36-979 is about $450 without a fence at my local Lowes.

[James White]

If you must stay within your budget I see nothing wrong with the Rigid or Delta from Lowes. That said I live in Ct and one of the local tool store. Coastal tools. They have a web site. Has the delta Hybrid 36-715b with the Biesemeyer table extension for $725. I know it is out of your budget but buyers remorse is a terrible feeling for me and $75 just wasn't enough to stop me from getting the saw I really wanted. The saw is not listed on there site as I am sure Delta would not let such a price be advertised. Give them a call if you leave within a reasonable distance to go pick one up.

http://www.coastaltool.com/

[Deuce Lee]

On the subject of stamped wings.

At least for me, a cast iron wing is used for lots of things besides wood sliding over it.

Having had both, cast wings would be a must have for me.

Joe

joe, what else do you use it for? j/w

i'm fairly set on that Jet...and alot of other people are telling me that if there's something to give up, it'd be the cast iron wings instead of the fence or saw itself...

others agree? or are those cast iron wings REALLY worth paying an extra $100 for?

again, i'd rather spend as low as i can and sacraficing as little as possible...going with the cast iron wings for $740 or whatever is overkill on my budget, $630 for the stamped steel i can stretch to...i'm not a pro, but i don't want to cheap out with a portable saw too...

[scott spencer]

joe, what else do you use it for? j/w

i'm fairly set on that Jet...and alot of other people are telling me that if there's something to give up, it'd be the cast iron wings instead of the fence or saw itself...

others agree? or are those cast iron wings REALLY worth paying an extra $100 for?

again, i'd rather spend as low as i can and sacraficing as little as possible...going with the cast iron wings for $740 or whatever is overkill on my budget, $630 for the stamped steel i can stretch to...i'm not a pro, but i don't want to cheap out with a portable saw too...

I'd give them a try Deuce...CI wings are great, but the steel will work too....and IMO steel wings are the lesser of possible evils that won't effect the cut. A lot of people add a router table or laminated extension on the right side anyway. The Jet will get you started on budget with a great saw with lots going for it, and no need for fence, belt, pulley, or DC upgrades ever. Any 27" CI wing will fit, you might even stumble into a deal on one sometime. Good luck with whichever you go, and please keep us posted!

[Jim O'Dell]

Or make some out of MDF and some laminate! That's what the add on tables beyond the wings are anyway. I like the cast iron, if nothing else for the weight. But it wouldn't be the end all/be all. Jim.

[M. A. Espinoza]

Or make some out of MDF and some laminate! That's what the add on tables beyond the wings are anyway. I like the cast iron, if nothing else for the weight. But it wouldn't be the end all/be all. Jim.

Yup, if I was hitting the ceiling on budget there are other factors besides cast iron wings that I would choose.

My Grizzly had webbed cast iron wings which are long gone, I built the saw into a shop table with white melamine replacing both wings.

You can always add ballast if you want to replace the mass.

Jet does make a lighter version of the saw called the Workshop and it sells for about $500. Stamped wings and a different fence plus a 1.5hp motor.

I would still recommend the Proshop for the better fence and more power.

[glenn bradley]

Or make some out of MDF and some laminate! That's what the add on tables beyond the wings are anyway. I like the cast iron, if nothing else for the weight. But it wouldn't be the end all/be all. Jim.

Jim's got a great suggestion if you're sold on the Jet. I should have been clear that the reason I added weight to my contractor was that is did not have CI wings. I added a RT to one side and MDF extension to the other just as Jim describes.

[Rick Thom]

The other obvious solution that I didn't notice suggested is to look for a good used saw. I didn't notice that Deuce ruled this out of bounds by specifying it had to be a new saw, just the best value for the $, or did I miss something??. From what I have seen, they frequently run in the 50-75% of current model price, and come up for sale quite regularly and for a host of reasons, often because the owner wants to upgrade to a bigger, more powerful saw etc.
For my $, as an example, I certainly wouldn't dismiss a used General 175/185 with T-fence that was in good condition. Doesn't pretty much every brand name have a great classic saw model or 2 that would be very desirable when compared head- to- head with a new Rigid & for the same or less $?? Don't get me wrong, by all accounts the Rigid is a great saw for the $ and I accept that.
I have one of the early Delta hybrids and it does everything I ask of it. The only shortcoming is a crappy miter gauge and that could be said of many if not most saws. If I had looked around a bit when I bought my saw new for @$900 4+ years ago, I could likely have bought a good used Unisaw or General 650 for the same $. That would have been much more saw for the $.

[Deuce Lee]

The other obvious solution that I didn't notice suggested is to look for a good used saw. I didn't notice that Deuce ruled this out of bounds by specifying it had to be a new saw, just the best value for the $, or did I miss something??. From what I have seen, they frequently run in the 50-75% of current model price, and come up for sale quite regularly and for a host of reasons, often because the owner wants to upgrade to a bigger, more powerful saw etc.
For my $, as an example, I certainly wouldn't dismiss a used General 175/185 with T-fence that was in good condition. Doesn't pretty much every brand name have a great classic saw model or 2 that would be very desirable when compared head- to- head with a new Rigid & for the same or less $?? Don't get me wrong, by all accounts the Rigid is a great saw for the $ and I accept that.
I have one of the early Delta hybrids and it does everything I ask of it. The only shortcoming is a crappy miter gauge and that could be said of many if not most saws. If I had looked around a bit when I bought my saw new for @$900 4+ years ago, I could likely have bought a good used Unisaw or General 650 for the same $. That would have been much more saw for the $.

Rick, i wouldn't mind getting used, but i'm from central wi, not the easiest to find a used table saw...there's currently a older JET JWTS-10 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=190190648094&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=009)saw 30 miles away right now, but that's about it...stupid craigslist doesn't even have a city/region for us even though the population of our area (30 mile radius) has about 200,000 people...

but i'm leaning towards the JET Proshop right now...since the delta doesn't include a fence for $450, it's probably going to end up costing about the same as the Ridgid or a little more...i'm going to check them both out well, then pull the trigger in a month or so, i'll keep everyone posted...thanks a bunch all.

[Rick Thom]

Deuce, think about other sources for used as well. Auctions and estate sales often yield some good equipment. Even a "WTB' add on this forum, local buy & Sell papers/sites, woodworking clubs/guilds could net you something good??
Patience is a virtue not many of us have, certainly not me to my discredit.
That Jet is a nice looking saw and could be worthwhile for the right $. I'm not all that familiar with Jet myself because they haven't sold Jet in Canada for some years.

[John Parr]

Deuce,

I have an Hitachi TS model C10FL I got from Lowes. I love the thing. It is a belt drive system with the motor inclosed and it works like a dream. I looked at the jet , but felt the Hitachi was much better built. I have had no problems with it and I use it daily. I paid just under $500 for it. They make a cabinet model with bigger cast tables, but I didn't need that.

[Erech Myers]

Deuce, thanks for starting this thread. I'm in the same boat as you and this thread has a lot of good info and opinions. I sold my old contractor saw so that I could upgrade to a hybrid. My budget of $750 is slightly higher than yours, but not by much. I've been researching for over a month now and here are some of my conclusions and opinions.

- For the Table Saw (most used tool in my shop), if at all possible, do it right the second time! I've been a garage woodworker for 4 years now and I've upgraded my table saw every year. What I should have done was upgrade to a hybrid two years ago. I don't think anyone who is brand new to woodworking should run out and spend $1000 on a table saw until they know they enjoy it. Once you're hooked though, a nice table saw makes all the difference. Other tools don't have to be top of the line, but a nice table saw makes the whole experience so much more enjoyable.

- Don't get a contractor saw that has the motor hanging out the back. It is not a huge deal, but for me every inch counts. The contractor saw would not sit flush against the garage wall, making it difficult to get cars in the garage.

- Get Cast Iron wings or plan to make some wings yourself. My old Jet contractor saw came with metal wings and they were not perfectly flat. On most cuts, it did not make a difference, but those few cuts that it did make a difference were annoying and potentially dangerous. I never replaced them because I decided to replace the saw with a hybrid. For me, I'd rather spend my limited time working on projects for my family instead of constantly messing with my tools.

My Table Saw Finalists
- Jet ProShop - Like you, this is probably the saw I will end up with except I will get the one with the cast iron wings.

- Grizzly GO661 - Brand new so there are no reviews to go on, but I like Grizzly's reputation and more importantly it is the first contractor saw to have both a riving knife and an enclosed motor. Soon all saws will have the riving knife, but for now this is the only choice. I also like the 36" rip capacity.
http://www.grizzly.com/products/10-2-HP-Contractor-Style-Table-Saw-with-riving-knife/G0661

- Steel City 35601 - I originally dismissed this one because the price was too much, but then I found a place on Craigslist in Tennessee (I live in Atlanta) that has Steel City scratch & dents for almost 50% off of the retail price. This model 35601, which recently tied with the Jet Proshop for Popular Woodworkings Editor's choice, is selling for $550! This probably won't do you any good since you live in Wisconsin, but here is the link just in case. Scroll down to January 14 to see the ads. I talked to Bill from the ads. Seems very legit.
http://knoxville.craigslist.org/tls/


Anyways, thanks for letting me vent! Good luck with your decision! :D

[Deuce Lee]

hey thanks for your 2 cents Erech...

i went out and saw the ridgid ts3650, Delta from lowes and the hitachi from lowes...

the ridgid seems like a solid saw for the money, love the 36 inch rip, herculift, lifetime warr, the motor actually didn't take up as much space as i thought it would...the splitter pulls out very easily, the DC seems ok, i can put my 2.5" ridgid shop vac right to it...

i think "IF" i can get it for 20% off, I just might do it...

I wasn't completely impress with the delta, and for $599 for the saw, fence, and something else (forgot), i'd rather get the JET or ridgid...I'm sure the fence wasn't set up correctly, but i didn't like the feel, movement and stability that much...

the hitachi ($499) seemed ok, the wheels seemed clumsy, i don't know if the angle adjustment system is that solid, i'm sure it is, it just feels different, i'll consider it as an option, but for now, it's definitely below the JET and ridgid...

i'm still newbyish with table saws so sorry i can't describe my experience with these saws that well...

[Chuck Lenz]

Don't get a contractor saw that has the motor hanging out the back. It is not a huge deal, but for me every inch counts. The contractor saw would not sit flush against the garage wall, making it difficult to get cars in the garage.
I don't know which Contractors saw you had Erech, but on my Delta the motor comes off in about 5 seconds. Do the Ridgid table saws only have a 2 1/2" dust port ?

[Art Mann]

That's right. The TS3650 has a 2 1/2" dust port. It is connected to a shroud surounding the blade and is, therefore, more effective than you might expect. Still, the dust collection on that saw is only fair unmodified.

[Erech Myers]

Deuce,

It does sound like that Ridgid would be a good fit for you. As long as you don't mind the motor sticking out the back, it has the built in mobile base and cast iron wings which would be added costs & time on the Jet. Of course, you'll have to pay tax on the Ridgid which will make up some of the cost difference because the Jet is tax free if you get it online with free shipping at Amazon.

If you can't get the 20% on the Ridgid, here is another idea for you. I'm going to the Wooworking Show (http://www.thewoodworkingshows.com/milwaukee.asp) in Atlanta this weekend and I noticed that it will be in Milwaukee the weekend of Feb 22-24. Last year, Ridgid had a booth at the show, and I picked up a returned/refurbished Ridgid planer for $225. I remember thinking the Ridgid Table Saws were a great deal too. I'm thinking $350, but don't quote me on that. I don't know how close you are to Milwaukee, but just another idea.

[Chris Stolicky]

This is my first post...

I have been in construction for many years but only ventured into the 'woodworking' arena over the past few years. I have been toying with the idea of upgrading my table saw. I have had a crude Ryobi for a few years now and have managed to build some nice things with it. However, I am tired of inaccuracies, having to clamp the fence, too light (has slid on me), huge dust mess, etc.

The Jet Proshop model caught my eye on Amazon. From the research I have done it looks to be a pretty good deal. I have a relatively small shop, so size is a concern. Also, I would really like to control the dust better. Any kind of circular saw always kicks up a lot of dust. I live in the Northeast and do most of my futzing around in the shop when its cold out; therefore its closed up tight.

I have one question: I would like to build a router table into the Jet. Would the steel wings be an advantage or disadvantage? The table (haven't decided commercial or homemade) would add weight; plus I would like to be able to use the table's fence with the router. Thus, back to the small shop thing - I would also like to be able to upgrade from the portable router table.

Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

[Erech Myers]

Hi Chris,

I don't have any experience with anything other than a small cheap portable router table either, but I can tell you what I'm planning on doing (as of today anyway :confused: ). I'm going to buy the Jet with the cast iron wings and then add a commercial router table to the end of the cast iron wing along with some legs to help support it. I think I'm going to get one of the cast iron router tables too if I can afford it. Can you tell I'm a fan of cast iron? :D I like the weight and flatness of the cast iron.

I think it just depends on the router table that you want to add. If you make the router table, you could save some money by buying the Jet with the steel wings and then make a long router table that attaches directly to the saw. If you do that, I'd recommend replacing the steel wing on the other side also with a homemade wing.

Good Luck!

[Dennis Parslow]

I do not have experience with their tablesaws but I have been pleased with the other stuff that I have purchased from them. Does anyone else have any experience with their saws? At any rate it is worth a look. I wish I knew about them when I bought my jet contractor saw.
Which model Jet do you have and are you not happy with it? I am considering one and wanted input from anyone actually using it. Thanks

[Jon Nelson]

joe, what else do you use it for? j/w

i'm fairly set on that Jet...and alot of other people are telling me that if there's something to give up, it'd be the cast iron wings instead of the fence or saw itself...

others agree? or are those cast iron wings REALLY worth paying an extra $100 for?

again, i'd rather spend as low as i can and sacraficing as little as possible...going with the cast iron wings for $740 or whatever is overkill on my budget, $630 for the stamped steel i can stretch to...i'm not a pro, but i don't want to cheap out with a portable saw too...

I bought a Jet 708100 a couple months ago from Sears online. I got it delivered for about $520 and have been very happy with it. It's essentially a contractor's saw but with the motor inside and a shrouded blade for pretty good dust collection. You get most of the advantages of a hybrid for the price of a contractor's saw. It comes with stamped steel wings and they're perfectly fine. There's no functional reason to upgrade to cast iron, in my opinion. I did, however, add a Bench Dog ProMax router table in place of the left extension wing, but that had nothing to do with any dissatisfaction with the steel wings. For me, cast iron wings aren't a big deal.

Go with the Jet.

[Art Mann]

Are cast iron wings worth it? Maybe not, but I got rid of an otherwise good contractor saw because the wings bent over time and would not stay flat with the rest of the table. I took them off and hammered them back straight a couple of times and that was enough. Perhaps Jet did a better job of designing theirs.

[Vic Damone]

[QUOTE=Deuce Lee;752255]hey thanks for your 2 cents Erech...

...the splitter pulls out very easily, the DC seems ok, i can put my 2.5" ridgid shop vac right to it...

QUOTE]

I had a fairly sever kickback incident using the Ridgid blade guard with a thin kerf blade. The pawls did their job but the bracket (what your referring to as a splitter) was badly bent. Clearly this bracket did very little in the way of keeping the cut portion separated, IMO it's not a splitter. The trunion also needed realignment.

I've since replaced the blade guard with a Shark Guard and added those little splitter tabs to a Lee Craft zero clearance insert and haven't had a repeat.

The TS3650 can be a value and the basic unit's quality is OK. With some upgrades this tool is serving me well. And a shop vac connected to the blade shroud will help. It sounds like a good fit for your current needs. If you get one in the box check out the Ridgid Woodworking website regarding assembly instruction clarifications, stand reinforcement, and outfeed table designs.

Vic

[Dennis Parslow]

Matthew Poeller Jet Contractor Saw reference
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew Poeller http://sawmillcreek.org/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?p=749748#post749748)
I do not have experience with their tablesaws but I have been pleased with the other stuff that I have purchased from them. Does anyone else have any experience with their saws? At any rate it is worth a look. I wish I knew about them when I bought my jet contractor saw.

Which model Jet do you have and are you not happy with it? I am considering one and wanted input from anyone actually using it. Thanks

[Tim Marks]

If you get one in the box check out the Ridgid Woodworking website regarding assembly instruction clarifications, stand reinforcement, and outfeed table designs.
Ridgid redesigned/reinforced the TS3650 legs in 2003, so this should not be an issue on new saws.

I found the instructions on my 2004 Ridgid TS3650 very clear (maybe they revised it?), and all the hardware was packaged in blister pack, making it easy to identify what bolts you need. One wierd thing is that the hardware is mixed SAE and metric, so you need both sets of wrenches (even though they claim it is all metric).


I had a fairly sever kickback incident...IMO it's not a splitter.
If a piece of wood gets cocked slightly and jams between the fence and the blade, the sturdiest splitter in the world is not going to stop kickback when a 3450 rpm blade with 1.5 Hp behind it grabs the wood. Not surprisingly, with all that force imparted to the wood, there is a strong possibility that the splitter will be bent (and an MJ splitter ripped out of the zero clearance insert, which has been reported by several here). The splitter is only going to prevent kickbacks caused by the wood closing up on the blade, which probably represents a minority of the kickback events (as demoinstrated by the fact you can get MDF to kick back, and it definitely is a dead wood).

You might guess that I actually LIKE the Ridgid splitter...

[Dennis Parslow]

I bought a Jet 708100 a couple months ago from Sears online. I got it delivered for about $520 and have been very happy with it. It's essentially a contractor's saw but with the motor inside and a shrouded blade for pretty good dust collection. You get most of the advantages of a hybrid for the price of a contractor's saw. It comes with stamped steel wings and they're perfectly fine. There's no functional reason to upgrade to cast iron, in my opinion. I did, however, add a Bench Dog ProMax router table in place of the left extension wing, but that had nothing to do with any dissatisfaction with the steel wings. For me, cast iron wings aren't a big deal.

Go with the Jet.

Jon, how do you like the fence on that jet? I am trying to decide if this is a good enough saw or if I need to get the SC Hybrid. My hesitations are the steel wings and the fence.

[Dennis Parslow]

I can get the Jet 708100 Contractor's for $450, or the SC Hybrid for $999-100 rebate = $899. So, is the SC TWICE the saw? Are the extra 1/4 HP, CI Wings, Industrial Fence, Full cabinet, Cab mounted trunnions worth double?

[scott spencer]

I can get the Jet 708100 Contractor's for $450, or the SC Hybrid for $999-100 rebate = $899. So, is the SC TWICE the saw? Are the extra 1/4 HP, CI Wings, Industrial Fence, Full cabinet, Cab mounted trunnions worth double?

Hi Dennis - That's an executive decision that only you can make, depending what that price difference does to your family budget, and how you feel about each of those differences....what's important to you?

There are pros and cons to both purchases. The SC is pretty well loaded as is, but obviously costs more. It has considerably more mass, wider surface, better fence, and should be more stable. The Jet allows some "growth" down the road should you ever want to upgrade the fence or the wings, and allows you to get going for significantly less money upfront. When calculating costs of upgrades, consider that the exising fence and wings do have some resale value. Also consider that you're likely going to want a good blade or two regardless of which you choose (though the SC's blade is said to be decent), and you may want a mobile base for the SC.

Cut performance should be similar. The 1/4hp isn't likely to be very noticeable if at all....blade choice and alignment make more difference than 1/4hp. CI wings are a "nice to have" feature but aren't essential, but should be noticeable to you as you go from one to the other. The fence makes a big difference IMO, but both fences are functional.

[M. A. Espinoza]

I can get the Jet 708100 Contractor's for $450, or the SC Hybrid for $999-100 rebate = $899. So, is the SC TWICE the saw? Are the extra 1/4 HP, CI Wings, Industrial Fence, Full cabinet, Cab mounted trunnions worth double?

Where did you find the Jet for 450? Good price.

Remember the Jet's carriage design is essentially the same as several hybrids out there (General International, Sunhill, Woodtek) but its definitely a bare bones version.

If you're in the shop a lot and its in your budget, get the Steel City. There is something to be said for getting the tool you want.

But if its a stretch then go with the Jet. Remember nobody will ever look at anything you build and care what kind of saw you used. The Jet is fine.

[Matthew Hills]

... I can tell you what I'm planning on doing (as of today anyway :confused: ). I'm going to buy the Jet with the cast iron wings and ...

Let us know how that goes. My impression is that the delay on the Proshops with cast iron wings is pretty long. (I placed an order at end of November that will reportedly not ship until March; Rockler's page (http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=18477) lists March 28th)

Matt

[Dennis Parslow]

I finally made up my mind and bought the Steel City 1 .75 Hybrid. The only time I usually regret decisions like this is when I opt for the lesser of two choices. I will get it next weekend and let you all know how the set up goes.

Thanks to everyone for their .02.

[Tom Geary]

hey, gents...newbie here.

you guys keep talking about CI or CL. Assume that's Cast Iron?

How does one attach a home made wing to a table saw, which may or may not include a router table?

thanks

(ps. I've been thinking about the Jet, but that new Sawstop contractors saw...well, it's a major stretch, 1500, but 750 extra might be worth the piece of mind)

pps. Using a sawstop cabinet saw in class. I assume the jet has a splitter vs riving knive, and am guessing the difference is splitter is fixed vs. riving knife, which goes up and down with the blade?