Metal marking questions

[Thomas Edwards]

Hello to the laser engraving group. I could use a little help from those of you who do or have done some metal marking. Today I received an opportunity to quote a large order for some stainless steel signs for an industrial application. Similiar to machine control signs. I have not looked into this area before and the opportunity was directed to me through my laser machine salesman (due to geographically location of my company and the new potential customer).

I have looked through some of the past threads and read about the Thermark (Cermark) products. I have used the Cermark product on ceramic but not the metal marking.

My biggest question to the group is what is the going rate for industrial signs? I don't expect anyone to give me their trade secrets but some generals guidelines as to price (per letter, per line, etc...)

The signs are approximately 7" x 35" and contain approximately 218 letters on each sign. There are a total of 416 signs to produce.

I don't want to look like a fool and quote too high or low. Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Tom

[James Stokes]

For wholesale lasering of stainless I charge .35 cent per inch.

[Mike Null]

I charge $ .75 per square inch for plastic and I would be at least $1.00 per sq. inch on stainless.

Given the size of the order I would discount that to $.60-65 per sq. inch.

[Richard Rumancik]

When a proposal like this comes up I think it is appropriate to ask the customer what their "budget" is - or at least get a ballpark. That way you don't waste your time and theirs. You may be uncomfortable asking but you can toss around some numbers - such as saying "laser time varies considerably with resolution - would your budget be able to accomodate $100-$200 to mark one panel? By their reaction/answer you can gage if it is anywhere near feasible. If you are thinking $200 and they are thinking $20 you are miles apart and nothing will get you to their target.

At $1.00 per square inch these panels would cost a few hundered dollars - not many industrial applications I know of could warrant this, but if you find out differently I'd sure like to know about it. Do you think they have $50-$100K for this project?

Unless they have a very good reason to specify Cermark (or maybe if NASA needs it) they will probably decide that there is another way to do it. I don't want to discourage you but we still have to be competitive with other processes.

If you want to do your own estimate, do a dry run of a sample sign to get the laser time. Then estimate cleaning time, applying Cermark, and washing, packaging, etc. Finally you have to estimate Cermark use. On a job this size I would probably want to run a test.

By the way, I never spray Cermark without using a mask. It saves a lot of material and reduces overspray and cleanup.

To make a mask, take your sign graphics layout and on a new ("MASK") layer make rectangles/ shapes around the lines of text and graphics, adding some margin. (Leave a reasonable marging for tolerances or you will end up with rejects.) The outer rectangle could be the size of the sign eg 7 x 35 for convenience. Cut the mask from mylar, PETG, or whatever you have handy (thin stiff plastic is best.)

If text is dense in some areas it may become a larger rectangle.

Attach the mask with tape to the sign and spray the Cermark into the openings. You may be able to recover some Cermark and re-use (scrape material off mask, reconstitute with denatured alcohol). I have not done a big enough job to warrant recovery but on a job this size I would consider it.

Even on small items I use a mask, mainly to keep the excess Cermark out of the air and also to reduce cleaning time.

[Thomas Edwards]

Gentlemen thank you for the pricing information and advise.

I most certainly need to be competitive with the current process. I found out today the current process is engraving into the 304 SS .030" deep and filling with a permanent ink.

Richard, thanks for the suggestion about the mask and the Cermark product. I did complete dry test run for cycle time today and will submit the quotation for the job later this week. With a job this size I too always try to do an actual test before giving a price. I will share any info. that I can later this week.

Tom

[Tony Williams]

I just purchased this thing, was wondering if anyone would maybe walk me through setting up a simple job and how to adjust laser power etc. I purchased this laser from a bank repo, I'm shure someone out there is a pro with a universal versa laser, I could shure use the help. Maybe you could show me a real simple job with wood kind of get me started, if you send me an email with your number I would call you, I appreciate sawmill creek forum,,,, I know a little bit about corel, I have installed my drivers just need a boast,,,,,,,,, If you can't help tell me someone who can
Coal Miner in West Virginia wanting to do some laser work in the Coal Fields,,,,,,, many thanks to you all,,,,,,, Tony
tonytw@suddenlink.net

[Todd Schwartz]

Tony - did you get any documentation? The Owner's Manual has a good step by step tutorial on both doing a raster job and a vector job. If not, I will see if I did up that file.

Todd

[Howard Garner]

I also received by VL 300 from a bankruptcy company.
Contact ULS support. They will send you electronic copies of the manual and the materials (basic) driver.

If you cannot get them that way, drop me a message and I will send you a copy.

Howard Garner