Another electrical question (panel placement)

[Joe Chritz]

I have a person who is doing a remodel and I am building the cabinets for them to install.

After three design changes because of a sub panel placement they have come up with the bright idea of putting the box inside the tall pantry cabinet. Beside the fact that this makes the pantry taller than all the other cabs and the upper doors different isn't this a big no-no with the electrical code?

I have been informed they have a real electrician doing the work and it is all up to snuff. But, if you read my day job post I am used to people telling me fibs and my BS radar is pinging strongly.

My suggestion to turn the box around and have it face the opposite room was not met with very much fanfare. Also this is a replacement box (old fuse panel) that has 10 circuits.

Thanks

Joe

[Ken Fitzgerald]

I'd check with the local code inspector.

I remodeled our downstairs bathroom. I was nearing completion and called for an electrical inspection. The original owner had the main panel for the house in the bathroom. It met code then but it doesn't now. I quickly built a short wall and added a doorway. The main panel is now in a very short hallway between the bathroom and the bedroom I use as an office.

[Rob Russell]

After three design changes because of a sub panel placement they have come up with the bright idea of putting the box inside the tall pantry cabinet. Beside the fact that this makes the pantry taller than all the other cabs and the upper doors different isn't this a big no-no with the electrical code?

I have been informed they have a real electrician doing the work and it is all up to snuff ... my BS radar is pinging strongly ...


Joe,

Your radar is probably dead-on.

The general topic is called Working Space and is laid out in [110.26 Spaces About Electrical Equipment] in the NEC. The gist of what you need from [110.26(A) - Working Space] is:

30" clear width
36" depth
6 1/2' height, although there is an exception for panelboards of less than 200 amps (which your subpanel probably is) but the exception doesn't say what the headroom must be. You might get away with having the top of the cabinet close over the panelboard, but it would make it a real pain to work in there.Another requirement is [110.26(B) - Clear Spaces] Working space required by this section shall not be used for storage. You could enclose the panelboard in a big enough cabinet, but you could not use it for storage.

Illumination is required too. If there isn't adequate light coming in from an adjacent light source, you'd need a light in there [110.26(D) Illumination].

If you have real qualms about this, I'm sure you could stop at the local library or your building department and ask to look at their copy of the NEC.

Good luck,

Rob
Addy protocol: unlicensed, homeowner electrician

[Jim Becker]

Thanks for your comments, Rob...I'm actually dealing with this same issue with the sub-panel in the addition...which is in my office. Fortunately, it's a small one!

[Chris Padilla]

Jim, what's small? The office or the sub-panel? ;)

[Joe Chritz]

Thanks Rob, I was hoping someone with a NEC book had the info.

The wife is a friend of my mom's and wants something totally different but they are kinda going back and forth.

I was originally going to do the install as a favor but after the electric issue came up I told them they had to do it themselves and to fix the box.

I knew I was right I just didn't have the wording available.

Joe

[Jim Becker]

Jim, what's small? The office or the sub-panel? ;)

Yes! :)

The new office is actually smaller than my current one in the 250 year old house. But I get a nice second floor view of the fish pond. The panel is a 100 amp sub. Here's what I am looking at:

79401

[David G Baker]

I just had a 200 amp service added to my house. The old panel was in a closet like space in the basement that had sliding doors covering the panel. The electrician said I had to remove the closet and expose the panel or it would not pass code inspection. I didn't mind because I had a second 100 amp box added next to the old one. I now have a 200 amp main panel outside with two 100 amp breakers installed feeding the two separate 100 amp panels in the basement. This way I can kill one breaker in the outside box and still have power while I am doing some rewiring out of the other panel. The two basement panels are now sub panels.
If the closet was as Rob described it would have passed.

[Rob Russell]

Yes! :)

The new office is actually smaller than my current one in the 250 year old house. But I get a nice second floor view of the fish pond. The panel is a 100 amp sub. Here's what I am looking at:


Jim,

You have to be careful that you don't clutter up that corner. Technically, even putting a chair there violates the NEC.

Remember that your local code enforcement officials may follow different rules.

Rob

[Jim Becker]

You have to be careful that you don't clutter up that corner. Technically, even putting a chair there violates the NEC.

Yea, I know...but... ;)

And interestingly enough, our township has no code enforcement officials relative to electrical. Plumbing? BEND OVER. Electrical? Call the independent inspector... Go figure.

[Jeffrey Makiel]

Rob,

Isn't there also a requirement that a panel cannot be near a gas meter or hot water heater? Or is it the other way around? (that is, a plumbing code requirement).

-Jeff :)

[Rob Russell]

Yea, I know...but... ;)


What I expected ... :)

[Rob Russell]

Rob,

Isn't there also a requirement that a panel cannot be near a gas meter or hot water heater? Or is it the other way around? (that is, a plumbing code requirement).

-Jeff :)

Jeff,

The gist of the NEC is that you can't have anything in the space up to 6' above the equipment or the structural ceiling, whichever is lower. Above the structural ceiling, you can have "foreign systems, provided protection is installed to avoid damage to the electrical equipment from condensation, leaks, or breaks in such foreign systems."


Beyond that, I'm not a licensed electrician, plumber or HVAC guy ... just a homeowner who likes wiring. It well may be that there are other building codes which prohibit putting a gas meter next to an electrical panel (it makes sense), but I can't point to anything specific. I'm not aware of anything that would prohibit putting a hot water heater next to an electrical panel, provided the basic electrical "Working Space" requirements were met.


Rob

[glenn bradley]

To meet any code I've seen the cabinet would have to be horribly wide and have no doors ;-)

[Joe Chritz]

Just an update from my side.

Apparently a family friend showed up today that knows a little bit and jumped all over the one half for wanting the panel in.

It is now being moved and i am back to the original plans, which are considerably better all around.

Thanks for the help.

Joe