Lowering Machines into Basement

[Marc Schneider]

I'm building up my shop which is located in my basement. One issue I'm running into is how to get heavy machines (TS, Jointer, Bandsaw, etc...) into the basement.

I have an external stairwell that leads from the side yard into the basement, so this make it somewhat easier (don't have to go through the rest of the house). But what is the best way to get the machines down the stairs?

I have a 1-ton hoist that I can use to lower the machines and I was thinking I could build some sort of frame around the stairs to attach the hoist to and lower the machines that way. I was thinking that I could use something like a Grizzly H8006 1 Ton Heavy-Duty I Beam Trolley (http://www.grizzly.com/products/1-Ton-Heavy-Duty-I-Beam-Trolley/H8006) across a piece of 2 1/2" flat a36 bar stock (http://www.metalsdepot.com/products/hrsteel2.phtml?page=flat&LimAcc=%20&aident=). But I'm not sure how thick I need the bar stock to support the weight. It would probably need to go across a 15 foot span. Additionally, how big do I have to make the frame to support this? Are there resources online that people know of that can help with these calculations? :confused:

The heaviest machine would be about 700 lbs. :eek:

Any ideas? How do other people lower heavy equipment into a basement shop?

Thanks,
Marc

[Robert Strebler]

Marc,

My shop is located in the basement. I have had good luck by removing as many pieces as possible to limit the weight. Then, I strap the item to a hand truck with large inflatable wheels and gently move it down stairs.

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/photos/37500-37599/37520.gif

So far nothing has broken and it's pretty easy with hand truck and two people.

[David Epperson]

I'd go with the refrigerator dolly. Though you could use the hoist to help lower the dolly down the stairs.
The I-beam trolly is just that - it's designed to run on the lower flanges of an I-beam section, not on a flat plate. Notice that the wheels are tapered to fit the shape of the I-beam flange. A crane/hoist set up would make things nice, but it's hard to blend such a structure into a residence, and not sure it would be worth putting up/taking down to store it out of the way. Just a guess (I'm not sure where my steel design manuals are right now) But I'm thinking an 8" or 10" tall beam would be required for a 15' unsupported span.

[Mitchell Andrus]

Take it apart. My heaviest move into a basement (through the kitchen) was a friend's Jet planer. After moving it we looked at the book and saw it was 502 pounds - I wanted to kill him.

[Tom Zielinski]

I've had to help my father lower a large number of metal working machines into his basement. The easiest method we've used was to built some type of sled and guides to slide down the stairs. Then used a block and tackle system to lower it into the basement. Sometimes even utilizing a car/truck to control the weight.

[Mike McCann]

If you can get everything on wheels put down 2 x 6 as a ramp and lower it on there. make sure you tie it off to something so when you are lowering it down the ramp if you let it slip it will not go far.

[Rod Sheridan]

As Robert indicated, remove anything you can, then use a hand truck.

You'll be amazed how well that works.........Rod.

[Greg Muller]

I came up with the idea of a stair slide-

On the wall opposite the top of the stairs, I mounted a eyebolt. I attached a winch to it and built a (STURDY) sled with a stop on the edge that would be facing downstairs. The winch (a come-along would work) can pull the sled up the stairs and control the descent for large items going down. when descending, once you are at the bottom, you can slide pipes or dowels under the sled for rolling into position (the Romans did it this way!) and then simply unload.

Going up it is pretty easy, you just want to control the point at which the sled starts to level itself from the incline angle so it is a slow pivot.

It worked for a PM54A jointer without any help at all!

Greg

[Eric DeSilva]

I'm in the same boat. So far, I've moved a 14" PM bandsaw, a Delta Unisaw, a JDS Cyclone system, and an 8" Grizzly jointer using an appliance dolly like:

http://s7.sears.com/is/image/Sears/00988226000?qlt=90,0&resMode=sharp&op_usm=0.9,0.5,0,0

If you notice, there are belts on the back rails--you tip it way back, and the belts create friction, slowing the thing down step to step.

While this works well for some things, I've decided the 750 lb. Grizzly 20" planer is going to live in the garage...

[David Tiell]

Robert's right on. I moved my TS, 8" jointer, large router table, and band saw into my basement the same way. A little extra work, but it gives you a chance while everything is apart to inspect and make adjustments, lubrications, and repairs if necessary.

[Rob Russell]

Marc,

See these 2 SMC threads where I posted pics and info about how I got 1500 pound machines down a standard hatchway to our basement.

SMC Thread #1 (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=11989&page=3&pp=15)

SMC Thread #2 (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=22927) (look at the second post).

Rob

[Mike Marcade]

I did a few FEA beam calculations for you. With a decent safety factor I wouldn't go thinner than a 2.5" square bar stock for a 700 pound machine. A 17 ft long 2.5" square bar will still deflect almost a half inch if you are supporting the machine in the middle with it and supporting the beam at the ends.

The I-beam would be much sturdier.

[Steven Wilson]

Marc, there are lot's of ways to get things into a basement. I like Rob's photos, it's been awhile since I've seen those threads. You may also want to look at the Felder and Minimax user group sites as their are a fair number of threads (and photos) on how members placed their large machines into the basement. If you're dealing with a typical American style cabinet saw, jointer, or planer then removing some parts and using an appliance dolly is sufficient. If you plan on moving combination machines (like Rob's) then more substantial methods are called for. If you decide on a multifunction combination machine then you may need to remove your staircase amd rig a crane. I recall someone moving a large Bridgeport machine into the basement and they had to remove a picture window, cut out part of their siding, rip up the carpet in a 1st floor familly room, Install a large overhead beam, move the machine in, lift it, and then cut out floor so the machine could be lowered into the basement. Since the machine was a little tall they needed to build a cabinet in the family room where the head of the machine would stay. Then rebuild the house.

If you have any doubts and need help you can always hire a rigger - they're the experts and the will make it happen.

[David Epperson]

I did a few FEA beam calculations for you. With a decent safety factor I wouldn't go thinner than a 2.5" square bar stock for a 700 pound machine. A 17 ft long 2.5" square bar will still deflect almost a half inch if you are supporting the machine in the middle with it and supporting the beam at the ends.

The I-beam would be much sturdier.
And lighter.

[Mike Marcade]

And lighter.

Aww come on now, that bar would only weigh in at 360 lbs. :D

[Chris Padilla]

Marc,

See these 2 SMC threads where I posted pics and info about how I got 1500 pound machines down a standard hatchway to our basement.

SMC Thread #1 (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=11989&page=3&pp=15)

SMC Thread #2 (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=22927) (look at the second post).

Rob

LOL! I was scrolling quickly to see if you posted, Rob! :D

[Jim Thiel]

...I've decided the 750 lb. Grizzly 20" planer is going to live in the garage...

Sissy:)

Using a hand truck from Harbor Freight, I moved all my stuff into the basement. After you bounce the planer on the first step, the axle should bend, letting the tire rub on the frame of the truck, slowing it down.

Jim

[Tim Marks]

Some appliance hand trucks have "stair climbers" on them. This is essentally a vee belt on each side of the handtruck on a pair of pulleys. To move the handtruck down one stair step at a time, you lean it back and the vee-belt takes the weight of the hand truck as you lower it, so it doesn't "thunk" or fall down each stair step. It really works; you can move 200-300# machines down stairs all by yourself (strap it to the handtruck first). With two people you could probably easily move a 400-500# machine downstairs.

http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_200276474_200276474

Another alternative is a CUT (compact utility tractor). I made a crane for mine by bolting a 2000# 12V winch on the end of a 6' jib boom, allowing me to swing the machinery over the basement stairs. The 12V winch has an RF keychain remote, so I could stand on the stars and guide the machine down into the basement. I also nailed together a bunch of 2x6 into a ramp so the machine would slide easily down to the bottom.

[Bob Feeser]

Yeah what Robert said. I got my PM66 down the steps without breaking a sweat that way. I removed the cast iron top, the wings came uninstalled, gently laid the saw over on a blanket, and then spun the tilt crank to gently lower the large motor onto the blanket, 2 bolts, and a belt, and it was laying on the floor, then I tilted up the 300 pound carcass, with trunion attached, and strapped it, surrounded by the blanket to a heavy duty hand truck, and lowered it one step at a time, with one person on top, and me on bottom. For extra security, you could attach a come along, or rope piece that you can secure with just enough let out to go to the next step, then resposition rope. The caution is that if it got loose, and started hopping down the steps taking you with it, I don't want to think what it would be like when you were between it and the floor when it hit rock bottom.
The caution is to also very heavily secure it to the hand truck, so it is incapable of sliding around in the web so to speak. You don't want to be grabbing the edge of a hand truck, and the saw is able to slide around. That is dangerous. I used shipping straps, several of them, and secured, resecured, and resecured, to guarantee that the saw the truck were all one unit.
My 8" PM jointer made it down intact, with only the separat box base going down separate. At 425 lbs, I did the same thing, and super secured it. Had a large friend come over to feed it down with me, and help me lift it onto the stand.
It is funny because I have been dreaming of a 20 planer, and the 700 pound weight is one of the reasons I am not taking a plunge. I talked to Powermatic about it, and they suggested that you do not take it apart, because proper aligning procedure would be quite a challenge. I read the other post about how the 20" planer wound up in the garage, and I don't want to give up the garage space. I think if I could do a come along, and I have a chain hoist, and could stay on the top side, instead of getting underneath of it, I might chance it. Then again, I see the way the stairs are built, with an upright 2x4 nailed into the stringer on the outer side, and wonder if the stairs would hold up? Now I need to modify the stairs too. All told, I am still using my 12" planer, which does a decent job. It's a Sears Contractor grade, a $750 unit, but is it loud? You betcha.


Marc,

My shop is located in the basement. I have had good luck by removing as many pieces as possible to limit the weight. Then, I strap the item to a hand truck with large inflatable wheels and gently move it down stairs.

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/photos/37500-37599/37520.gif

So far nothing has broken and it's pretty easy with hand truck and two people.

[Steven Wilson]

Bob, one of my friends has a basement shop and keeps a small planer and jointer there. In a leanto attached to his garage he has big old iron; 20" jointer, 24" planer. He uses those for rough work and the smaller ones for final stock prep.

[Jon Bonham]

I would imagine the steel would be cost prohibitive. I'm guessing each rail you'd need would be in the $500-700 per range.

[Tom Court]

Marc,

I have a garage entrance to my basement and I lowered my MM16 bandsaw, which was strapped to a pallet/sled, with a lawn tractor (John Deere LT150).
My Felder KF700 went down in a similar fashion, but I used a Toyota 4-Runner instead of the lawn tractor. There are some pictures of the Felder descent in this pictureTrail album:

http://www.picturetrail.com/gallery/view?p=999&gid=14323571&uid=2939312&members=1

Tom

[Greg Muller]

Y'know Tom,
If I had a Felder, I would look for any excuse to get pics of it into a thread, too.
I can't blame you a bit...;)

Greg

[Rob Russell]

I would imagine the steel would be cost prohibitive. I'm guessing each rail you'd need would be in the $500-700 per range.

The steel tube stock rails I used were nowhere near that cost. I used 2 1/2" square tube stock that has 1/4" walls. I bought it from a local metal fabrication shop that buys the stuff in bulk. The tubes don't need to support the entire weight of the machines. The stairs are capable of supporting several hundred pounds or you wouldn't be able to walk on them. The stairs help keep the tube stock from deflecting - remember the machines I slid down were twice the weight that Steve's trying to move.

One thing I did have was one of those little $200 import metal cutting bandsaws. Lemme tell you - I've used that little saw a bunch of times - it's easily paid for itself.

[Brian Dormer]

First response is dead on - take it apart as much as possible. Then manhandle it down with a handtruck. It helps if you have some burly friends to help out. Shouldn't cost more than a couple six-packs and some pizza.

[keith ouellette]

If you have a tree (or maybe a truck) behind the entrance to the stair well you could strap the machine to a wooden sled. attach one end of a come a long jack (some call it a hand winch) to a sturdy anchor and the other end to the sled. Start the sled down the incline and slowly lower the sled down the stairs.
I would use a truck as an anchor for the winch (or maybe even a truck winch) so you could also lower the sled by moving the truck.
I have helped to move things this way and it is very easy.

[Aaron Beaver]

If you have a tree (or maybe a truck) behind the entrance to the stair well you could strap the machine to a wooden sled. attach one end of a come a long jack (some call it a hand winch) to a sturdy anchor and the other end to the sled. Start the sled down the incline and slowly lower the sled down the stairs.
I would use a truck as an anchor for the winch (or maybe even a truck winch) so you could also lower the sled by moving the truck.
I have helped to move things this way and it is very easy.

Got my jointer/planer down in the basement with a similar method. My friend parked his truck near the door, we attached a chain hoist to his truck and straps around the machine. Put plywood over the stairs to make a ramp and just use the chain hoist to lower it down nice and slow. Didn't have to take anything apart and worked like a charm.

[Jon Bonham]

The steel tube stock rails I used were nowhere near that cost. I used 2 1/2" square tube stock that has 1/4" walls. I bought it from a local metal fabrication shop that buys the stuff in bulk. The tubes don't need to support the entire weight of the machines. The stairs are capable of supporting several hundred pounds or you wouldn't be able to walk on them. The stairs help keep the tube stock from deflecting - remember the machines I slid down were twice the weight that Steve's trying to move.

One thing I did have was one of those little $200 import metal cutting bandsaws. Lemme tell you - I've used that little saw a bunch of times - it's easily paid for itself.

I thought the "tubes" were solid stock.

[Rob Russell]

I thought the "tubes" were solid stock.

Nope. Take a look at the second thread I have a link to. The pictures at the bottom of the post show the tube stock and how it's hollow.

Actually, the lefthand picture in that second thread shows how much (or little) deflection you'll get from that tube stock. That jointer/planer is completely supported in midair by the tube stock. Yes, it's deflected a bit - but that's 1500+ pounds in the middle of the stock and the stock is just supported at the ends. The pallet jack is just underneath the j/p, but is not supporting it at all.

[Chris Padilla]

First response is dead on - take it apart as much as possible. Then manhandle it down with a handtruck. It helps if you have some burly friends to help out. Shouldn't cost more than a couple six-packs and some pizza.

Sold! I'd even skip the beer...for PIZZA!!! :p

[Bob Feeser]

Bob, one of my friends has a basement shop and keeps a small planer and jointer there. In a leanto attached to his garage he has big old iron; 20" jointer, 24" planer. He uses those for rough work and the smaller ones for final stock prep.
Now that sounds like a great setup. I wish I had more ground to do something like that. I am on 1/8th acre. It is all I could do to add a 10x12 storage shed for the gardening stuff.
I love the big old iron too.

[Steven Wilson]

Bob, he basically has just enough of a leanto to keep the snow and rain off the machines. Other than that they're pretty much out in the open. He figures that they weigh enough that no one is likely to steal them. He just keeps them sprayed with Amsoil heavy duty metal protectant so they don't rust.

[Michael Gibbons]

When I bought my Unisaw, I called the strong kid over from across the road and and paid him a 20 spot and we heave-hoed the saw down the stairs one at a time, rest, one more, rest, one more. Worked out great. Maybe go to the local high school and hire a few linesman and pay 'em 50 bucks each and some pizza, if you have lots to move...

[Mike Gabbay]

I have the same issue, basement shop with interior access only. The biggest machine in my shop is my 17" Bridgewood bandsaw. I was around 300 pounds when we moved it. I used an appliance dolly.

Now getting it in was easy. It's the getting out part that gets interesting! :( I guess we won't be moving for awhile!

[Hank Knight]

Mark,

When my Laguna LT 18 bandsaw arrived by truck, I had no idea how I would get the 500+ pound monster down to my basement shop. It collapsed the pneumatic tires on the truck driver's hand truck getting it off the truck. I have an outdoor walk-up like yours. After much thought, I removed the cast iron table and fence assembly and the motor. Then I strapped the saw frame to a 2X6 and the delivery truck driver and I slid it carefully down the stairs on the 2X6. Worked like a charm. The brick stairs chewed up the 2X6, but there was not a scratch on the saw. After we got it to the bottom it was a piece of cake to manuver it into place. My Unisaw is much lighter and easier. A friend and I hand-carried it down to the basement after removing the table, fence and motor.

[Joey Monheit]

THis post os old but I’m hoping someone can chime in. I’m moving a PM15HH into the basement using the wooden sled method with a black and tackle anchored to my truck. I got the machine off of the truck and it’s sitting at the top of the concrete entryway. The weight seems to be evenly distributed but I’m wondering if I need to lay the crate on its back or can just slide it down on the pallet upright.
Any help is greatly appreciated.

[Bill Dufour]

What is that? it may be top heavy or maybe not. table may break off or not etc. etc. how much does it weigh? Pile up snow on the stairs until it is level with the ground and slide it onto top. Then let it settle down to the basement until spring then push it inside the door when the weather gets warm.
Bill D.
Looks like it should fly in on it's own, no help needed.
Link below shows what a pm155h search reveals.

https://www.simpleplanes.com/a/Pm155h/EXODUS-Bomber

[Andrew Nemeth]

Hi Joey,

I have an older Jet version of that planet without the helical head. I’ve moved it into and out of a basement and up and down a number of ramps. When assembled, my unit is pretty top heavy. It’s not at all an issue when it’s vertical and on solid ground, but if you tilt it at a significant angle, it could easily get away from you. If the unit is completely assembled, and you don’t want to take it apart to get the weight down lower, I would strongly suggest carefully tilting the crate on its back after making sure it’s secured and padded appropriately inside.

Take it it very slow and never let it build up momentum. Good luck!

[Matt Day]

I agree with Andrew, mine is top heavy too. I bought in a not so great part of town and I was looking forward to driving away with it, so we lowered into my Subaru and we almost lost it as soon as it went passed it's balance point. I'd remove the top from the base and move it in two sections. A hand truck is all you need then to bump down the stairs. Those planers aren't really that heavy.

[Martin Wasner]

I'd just put my wife at the bottom of the stairs and tell her to catch...

[Chris Parks]

A lot of people over estimate what is needed to control heavy items down a steep incline. I have lowered a heavy car down a very steep incline with just two wraps of rope around a suitably strong post and controlled it with one hand on the rope, pull on the rope to tighten the wrap and it stops, release it and the load is in a controlled descent. Friction is a great help sometimes.

[Joey Monheit]

It’s a Powermatic 15” planer

[Bill Dufour]

If the motor is down low leave it in place, if it is mounted high up I would pull the motor by cutting the cord. Then that I would bolt the machine to a couple of 4x6's to make a sled with some cross pieces. use a rope and winch to lower it down the stairs, maybe on plywood to spread the load.
While the motor is off verify the bearings are good. I like to rewire with a plug and cord for any later servicing.
Bill D

[John C Cox]

Take lots of measurements and make sure it will clear through the doors..
Take it apart as much as possible. Moving 100# pieces is a whole lot easier than 500#...

But the last thing is... Depending on your own physical health and overall desire to do this - consider hiring professional movers. The last 2 in town moves - I hired out the moving to a local moving company... It's money well spent. Because you don't have to kill yourself while all your friends who promised to be there beg off, don't show up, or work half an hour, complain a lot, and leave early....

I use machine movers and riggers all the time with work... You would be amazed at how fast and efficiently they can get a giant, heavy, bulky machine into a tight space.... It's their day job. And they can get it done without destroying the walls and house or dropping/breaking your machine...

[Peter Christensen]

Whatever you use to control the sled's decent (come alongs, ropes and pulleys or a boat winch) if you put a pair, one each side of the table, of 3x4s in the machine and crank the table up to hold it, you have something to grab and manipulate the planer with and 4 guys can pick it up and walk it around.

[roger wiegand]

I have friends who have ~30 piano variants and large organs in the basement, when they built their underground music room they dropped a electric forklift into the basement and permanently installed it in a corner, out of sight, under a trapdoor. When they move new heavy objects into or out of the room they just push it onto the trap door platform and voila! Apparently it was way cheaper than a freight elevator would have been.

[tom lucas]

I didn't read this whole thread but what I did to get a boiler out of a basement was to rent a power dolly made for steps. I think it was like $60. On these, the wheels "step" down one step at a time so you don't have to hold the weight. Worked great and was quick and safe.