Inlaying Tiles in a Coffee Table?

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi, I would like to inlay ceramic tiles in a coffee table top.

The top would have a perimeter frame of quarter sawn white oak, on a Baltic birch substrate.

My question is what kind of grout would you use between the tiles?

I am assuming that conventional cement/sand grouts used for tiles wouldn't be able to accomodate the slight expansion and contraction of the QSWO perimeter, and therefore a caulking would be a better solution due to flexibility?

Any advice from people who have constructed someting similar would be appreciated........Rod.

[Jamie Buxton]

Right at the tile/oak interface, the oak will be glued to the plywood, and the tile will be glued to the plywood. There won't be any changes in the tile-to-oak gap. That is, conventional grout can work.

[julie Graf]

i did one about 10 years ago - with traditional grout, and it hasn't had any problems. (it's my sisters, so i've seen it recently)

[Rod Sheridan]

Julie and Jamie, thanks for the reply, however I hadn't intended to glue the oak to the plywood, I was going to inset the ply in a rebate in the oak, with a couple of mm gap and fasten it with screws to allow slight movement.

I may rethink that since you seem to have had sucess with firmly attaching the two pieces together.

I presume you completed the finish before grouting/

Thanks for the help, Rod.

[Paul Johnstone]

You might want to fasten 1/4 inch cement board to the plywood, and then use thin set to put the tile on that. Then, when finished, attach the wood edging.

I'm only an amatuer tiler, but it's my understanding that thinset won't bind as well to plywood as it does to cement board. It's also my understanding that using premixed mastic is kind of a crapshoot, thinset is better.

[Homer Faucett]

I don't think you will have much issue with the wood movement problem even with your rebate construction method, as long as you aren't hanging your tiles over the edge of the baltic birch. You could always use a colored silicone around the perimeter of the tiles to match your grout and provide for a flexible zone between the oak and your tile field. This is what is typically done between a backsplash and a tile countertop.

As an aside, I would probably opt for a cheaper plywood like A/C if you are going to mortar the tiles onto the substrate. You'll never see the top surface, so why pay for a finished surface? Additionally, most tile guys would recommend attaching (screwing) a piece of cement board to your substrate and laying your tile on the cement board to create a better mortar bond.

As far as grout, I would opt for the Laticrete Spectralock you can get a Lowe's. It comes in a small tub, is epoxy based, and works like a dream on smooth tiles. If you were covering vast areas, it might be cost prohibitive, but having a grout that does not need to be sealed--ever--is a big advantage in my book, and probably won't cost much more than a bag of ordinary grout.

I will add the disclaimer that I have not done this on a coffee table, but have put in a few granite tile and marble tile countertops using the method discussed above (CDX, cement board, tile, grout, silicone at the corner between the counter and backsplash).

Good luck.

[Brian Kerley]

My dad made one about 15 years ago, and he used mastic to adhere the tiles to the plywood substrate, and white caulk between the joints. The nice thing about that was when something spilled, the caulk wouldn't stain like grout would.

[Jamie Buxton]

Thinset, particularly the acrylic-loaded stuff, sticks very well to plywood. Backer board is not necessary for this. I'd glue the oak to the plywood. I'd thoroughly varnish the oak before laying the tile, because you're going to be slopping thinset and grout around, and you don't want it staining the wood.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

I'd use a plywood backer board and a colored caulk. I'm not at home right now but there is a book by a tile setter sold at Taunton's. In the book, he lists his suppliers. I went to them and gave them the color code off the grout I was using. Mixed up a sanded CAULK that matched perfectly. I used the caulk in the corners of my shower and where the field tile meets the floor tile in the shower. The colored latex caulk gives where grout won't. Thus the walls of the tiled shower are floating panels.

If the areas between the tiles are greater than say 1/8" I'd use a sanded caulk...if less I would use an unsanded colored caulk

Using caulk you won't have to worry about stains...it's water proof...

I'd use thinset or mastic to adhere the tile to the plywood backer. Either one would work.

Good luck!

[Jon Bonham]

Traditional grout cures by evaporation. I would be somewhat afraid to have it losing moisture into the wood. I would probably opt for Spectra-Lok, which is an epoxy based grout. It doesn't have water added to it and it won't stain. It also doesn't crack from expansion like traditional sanded grout.

[keith micinski]

Just to be safe why not use concrete board? It isn't that expensive or harder to work with and it is designed for tile. Also any modified grout would work in the field and probably would be ok against the oak but why chance it when you can get color matched caulk and do the ouside perimiter and then not have any expansion issues?

[Dennis Jackson]

I would also try to do the tile field separate from the table and then carfully place it into the opening and secure. This would alleviate the problem of getting the grout on the wood and having to deal with that. If the base is sufficently rigid the tiles will not crack if handled with care. A bead of caulk around the outside will fill the joint between the wood and tile.

[Per Swenson]

Hello All, Hi Ron,

For me it depends on the customers lifestyle.

Will there be other beverages spilled regularly

on the surface besides coffee? Booze?

Do the kiddies have afternoon snack in front of the tube?

Does Grandpa lack a ottoman and used the last table as a Foot stool?

See, if you have a lifestyle out of Architectural Digest, grout is fine.

On the other hand, if the surface will battle the unpredictable elements

of a large typical family, you are better off with Ken's suggestion

of sanded colored caulk. Available in all tile stores and aisles.

Per

[Danny Thompson]

My understanding of wood movement is that all of the movement, or at least all of the significant movement, is across the grain, not along the grain. Therefore, if you attach the trim on the tile side, all your expansion and contraction will be on the outside edge; there shouldn't be any expansion and contraction on the edge closest to the tile.

Experts, am I wrong here?

[Rod Sheridan]

Well, after all these years I decided to post back and thank everyone, as well as put some photograhs in the thread.

I used non sanded grout which is light tan in colour, it appears white in the photographs however it isnt.
300772300773300774

Regards, Rod.

[Lee Schierer]

Since the long grain is adjacent to the tile field, I wouldn't expect that there would be any wood movement problems. I made a tray for my sister in law with a tile field.300799 and I used a caulk material for the grout and it did shrink a bit over time. If I were to do this again, I would use the Musselbound adhesive mat material to hold the tile in place and then use the Laticrete epoxy grout. I used the mat for our kitchen back splash and so far all the tiles are securely in place. The Laticrete grout is stain proof so nothing that gets spilled will stain it.

[John A langley]

Excellent Rod

[Howard Acheson]

>>>> what kind of grout would you use between the tiles?

In my shop we used to use a marine polysulfide sealant/adhesive. We used it both to adhere the tiles to the substrate and then to "grout" the the spaces between the tiles. Because it's intended for marine applications, it is flexible enough to withstand quite a bit of movement. Buy it at a marine supply store or contact Jamestown Distributors.

[Mike Schuch]

I will never use a conventional grout again after having found SpectraLOCK two part epoxy grout. It is comparable to conventional grout for installation but it never needs to be sealed and it will never stain. I have used it on a ceramic tile floor and a marble tile floor. It wears like iron... probably will never need to re-grout! It is available locally at Lowes. You buy the clear epoxy and hardener separate from the colored filler (sand). The filler is available in a variety of colors. The SpectraLOCK also has a mildew-icide so mildew will never form on the surface and the epoxy is impervious to all micro-life. It is a lot stronger than conventional grout and is more flexible... able to overcome minor movements.

JUST SAY NO to conventional grout! I will NEVER use conventional grout again!

http://www.lowes.com/pd_328840-73069-S-215CQ-NS-03_4294856532__?productId=3306272&Ns=p_product_qty_sales_dollar|1&pl=1&currentURL=%3FNs%3Dp_product_qty_sales_dollar%7C1&facetInfo=

[Justin Ludwig]

I will never use a conventional grout again after having found SpectraLOCK two part epoxy grout. It is comparable to conventional grout for installation but it never needs to be sealed and it will never stain. I have used it on a ceramic tile floor and a marble tile floor. It wears like iron... probably will never need to re-grout! It is available locally at Lowes. You buy the clear epoxy and hardener separate from the colored filler (sand). The filler is available in a variety of colors. The SpectraLOCK also has a mildew-icide so mildew will never form on the surface and the epoxy is impervious to all micro-life. It is a lot stronger than conventional grout and is more flexible... able to overcome minor movements.

JUST SAY NO to conventional grout! I will NEVER use conventional grout again!

http://www.lowes.com/pd_328840-73069-S-215CQ-NS-03_4294856532__?productId=3306272&Ns=p_product_qty_sales_dollar|1&pl=1&currentURL=%3FNs%3Dp_product_qty_sales_dollar%7C1&facetInfo=

Interesting. I'm filing that away for future use.

Rod, beautiful table. I missed your re-opening of this thread.

[Rod Sheridan]

Interesting. I'm filing that away for future use.

Rod, beautiful table. I missed your re-opening of this thread.

Thanks Justin, we do like it............Rod.

[roger wiegand]

Use Schluter Ditra as an isolation layer then thin set as the instructions specify (modified below the membrane, unmodified above, as I recall) just like tiling a floor over plywood. The membrane will eliminate any problems with wood movement. Your local tile shop can probably give you a scrap to do a coffee table with. (or if you're close by I have a pile of scraps).