Starting the Search for Flat Screen TV

[John Bailey]

My wife wants a new TV. We don't watch any broadcast TV and, at this point, might only watch 10-12 movies a year. Of course the movies will increase when we get beyond our 20" CRT of questionable quality.

I really don't want a TV that's so big it dominates the room we'll have it in. Presently, a 32" is the biggest we could fit in the space we have. That's what I want. The little lady says she wants at least a 42". We may well compromise and go for a 37". Although, judging from past history, we'll compromise with a 42" or 50".:o Of course, that means I'll have to make a new center for the larger TV.

I've looked at a lot of TV's in the stores and I've decided the Plasmas look the best to me. In some of the research I've done, some would suggest at the size I'm looking at, 32"-42", LCD's are just as good. Do you all have an opinion on that? It would appear the smallest Plasma is a 37", so we are probably going at least that big.

Again, this would be for movies only. The sound capabilities aren't relavant because it will be hooked up to my stereo.

Thanks for any input. I usually get better input here on any subject, not just woodworking. Oh, and remember, I'm a TV Neanderthal. Haven't been hooked up to tv channels for about 10 years.

John

[Ken Fitzgerald]

SSsssshhhhhhhhhh! The LOML might hear you!:eek::rolleyes::D

[John Bailey]

SSsssshhhhhhhhhh! The LOML might hear you!:eek::rolleyes::D

I read through the thread you started Ken. What did you end up with?

John

[Ken Fitzgerald]

The LOML had her eye on one that was on sale at Sears. The very knowledgeable guy at a local tv/stereo store ( not Sears) had pointed out several deficiencies in that one model. It is important to note the local store carried that model and he said he wouldn't recommend it. That's what I like about Bill...he's honest and technically knowledgeable.

We ended up not buying one even though I offered to buy one.

Based on recommendations here and by this guy we'll buy one in the next year or so.....it'll be a Sony or a Sharp Aqous(sp?)

[John Bailey]

Based on recommendations here and by this guy we'll buy one in the next year or so.....it'll be a Sony or a Sharp Aqous(sp?)

Ken,

Plasma or LCD? Why?

(By the way, you're answering very quickly - shouldn't you be working on your almost done shop?:D)

John

[Jim Becker]

Plasma are very nice for rich colors, off-axis viewing, etc., but don't like bright rooms, and both use more power and generate more heat than LCDs. LCDs have come a long way and offer more choices these days and for the majority, are probably the better choice.

My personal choice is the Sharp Aquos. I have an older 30" system and am soon to purchase a 52" for our new media room. I feel they have the best "intelligent stretch" function going which allows for comfortable viewing of SD material in wide screen format without glaringly obvious distortion and about the best blacks in LCD-land. (Deep blacks are harder to do with LCDs than plasma) Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/gp/r.html?R=1VLPJ3RBH5QAE&C=2HED5MJTAKGL8&H=xvbUs8CpNFfYkuxBQMYXe0sLvtwA&T=C&U=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazon.com%2Fb%2Fref%3Dpe_23060 _7846250_bt%2F102-7459675-8389724%3Fie%3DUTF8%26node%3D390987011) is having an attractive sale right now on HDTVs including "white glove" delivery service according to an email I received yesterday. 6ave also has attractive pricing. In the Sharp, line, this one might be a good compromise on the size preferences of you and the LOYL:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/r.html?R=1VLPJ3RBH5QAE&C=2HED5MJTAKGL8&H=xvbUs8CpNFfYkuxBQMYXe0sLvtwA&T=C&U=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazon.com%2Fb%2Fref%3Dpe_23060 _7846250_bt%2F102-7459675-8389724%3Fie%3DUTF8%26node%3D390987011

[Chris Padilla]

Consumer's Reports is a GREAT place to start. I believe their next issue will contain the latest/greatest. The technology changes so much that they have a major article on them at least 3-4 times per year so keep a look out at the newstand.

Costco is also another place to get a great buy...assuming you have a membership or KNOW SOMEONE who has a membership.

[Jim Becker]

Costco is a good source for a deal, but be aware that many of the models they feature are the most previous generation. That's the case with the Sharps and the price wasn't really a lot different than available elsewhere with free delivery. I was going to try and justify our half-membership at Costco for this purchase, but it's not going to happen.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

John,

Jim pretty well spelled out the technical differences. The size, weight and power useage is the main reason I'll probably go with an LCD.

As Jim stated, the technology is still going through some change and the local cable company is only offering a few channels right now and charging extra for them. In 2009 when HD becomes the standard, that'll change as they have to be broadcasting in it. I'm hoping by then the technology will have settled a bit too! Of course, there comes a time when you just have to jump in........:D

BTW....I worked in the shop until 9:00 last night starting to assemble my Onieda 2.5 hp DC. I'm sore this morning. That is some heavy gauge steel they use in that Gorilla.....wrestling with a gorrilla...I'm at the point where I'm going to have to chill some beer and invite some friends over and figure out how we are going to raise that puppy onto the wall mount. Unfortunately like the b/s dilema.....I've got to figure out how to raise it with only 9.5 feet of ceiling height.....:confused:

[Chris Padilla]

Ken,

A fully assembled DC does weigh quite a bit not too mention it is incredibly top-heavy. Do get copious help moving it around, standing it up, lifting it into place.

[Jason Roehl]

Ken, a little clarification--2009 is a switch to digital broadcast, not necessarily high-definition (HD) broadcast.

I have a 40" Samsung and picture-wise, it's great (it's the same LCD panel as the Sony Bravia, but different electronics). I've run into a few deficiencies, but they're all electronics-based, that I couldn't have known about ahead of time. One is that the TV only passes digital 2.1 sound through, so I have to do some wiring acrobatics with my particular system, though a new receiver could solve that. Others are pretty minor.

[Mitchell Andrus]

See my thread: http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=72549
Some TV discussion here.

I have the 52" LCD Aquos (after a 42" plasma melt-down). Unbelievable picture quality in HD and DVD. Not so much for mormal broadcast - reason???... The big screen makes everything bigger, even the broadcast "artifacts". A picture (on say, CNN) that is broadcast a bit blurry really shows it when the picture is 26" tall and 13 feet away.

Room size/screen size is an important ratio. At 52", I'm just on the edge, maybe a bit over :). Measure your screen distance and bring a tape measure with you to the store.

LCD will win over plasma eventually. Runs much cooler, cheaper, better contrast and less burn-in problems (I saw the side-bar effect after only 21 months on the plasma). With Fios HD, the image looks as good at home as in the store -No kidding. Viewing angle is A-OK anywhere in my den - they've got that problem licked.

[Jim Becker]

In 2009 when HD becomes the standard, that'll change as they have to be broadcasting in it.

"HD" does not become "standard" in 2009. Digital broadcast becomes "standard" for high-power stations at that point. While HD is broadcast in digital, there is no requirement for any of the signals to also be high definition.

Providers charge varying amounts for HD over and above their normal service offerings. Verizon, with its FiOS fiber to the home, includes all the HD in the price outside of VOD and a few premium channels. You just need to pay for the HD STB. DirectTV has several tiers of HD available (and the largest current lineup of HD at about 85 channels). Comcast nickels and dimes you to death...

[Danny Thompson]

An important feature is the resolution, 480i, 480p, 720i, 720p, 1080i, 1080p . . . .

I have a Panasonic 50" 720p and really love it. It is a plasma. Very dark blacks. Regular DVDs really pop! as do movies and sports broadcast on DirecTVs HD channels.

I have had mine for almost 2 years now with NO burn-in. Reason being I go with grey sidebars rather than black. The grey bars generate the same average burn-in over time as a randomly changing TV picture.

If I were just getting this for movies, I would opt for a 1080p and get a Blu-Ray disc player for maximum picture quality. If it were primarily for TV, I would go cheaper because most TV broadcasts are at a significantly lower resolution than 720, so the higher rest screen would be wasted.

[Randy Cohen]

I've got a samsung 40" lcd 720P. the picture is excellent. 1080p may be the top line but if your tv is less than 50" it shouldn't make much difference. if you've been watching something like a 20" crt than a 40" lcd will seem like heaven.

[Gary Keedwell]

Our Sony 46" 1080 P is about 7 or 8 months old and it still amazes me. Watching the best team in football ( G0 Pats) for a whole season has been nothing less then phenomenal. I watched a movie with my 1080p Up Conversion DVD Player the other nite and it was fantastic. By the way: 3:10 to Yuma is an excellent western with Russell Crowe. (Gladiator);)
Gary

[Jim O'Dell]

How about DLP? How do they play in the DH mix? Jim.

[John Bailey]

By the way: 3:10 to Yuma is an excellent western with Russell Crowe. (Gladiator);)
Gary

Gary, I had to laugh when I saw that. Last weekend my wife brought home a movie she said was about a bee keeper, played by Peter Fonda. She thought it would be a typical philosophical chick flick. She was thinking the title was "Return to Yuma." It was "3:10 to Yuma." I told her I didn't think she had the right movie. We watched it, and she was gone half way through. I thought it was great, even on the 20"er.


How about DLP? How do they play in the DH mix? Jim.

Jim, I've looked at 100's of tv's in showrooms over the past month or so, the best picture was a Sony XRD (I think that's the designation) which was a DLP (again, I think - you're probably getting a picture of ignorance here). But I couldn't find one less than 55"s. Beautiful picture though.

John

[Tim Morton]

I cast a vote for DLP as well....and I cast my vote for 50".

One thing about LCD that everyone knocks is the off axis viewing and the lack of blacks. I even bought into the hype. But my neighbor just picked up a 47" olexia(sp) LCD and yes there is a "slight" lack of true black...but off axis was not terrible like you read about. Hers was $999 on sale and it has a very nice picture. Not sony or sharp nice, but also half the cost. FWIW.

[Jeff Wright]

I just ordered a Samsung LNT4671F from Amazon yesterday. It is a 46-inch LCD with fast refresh rates. Very good contrast and black blacks. It cost about $2150 with free shipping (and no taxes!). It has nearly all rave reviews on Amazon (about 90 owner reviews). I also bought the Logitech 890 remote control that is billed as the ultimate ONE control that can be programmed to operate all your peripherals. Also got the Onkyo 705 receiver. Still deciding on speaker system and dvd player.

BTW, I originally bought the TV for $2354, but noticed the price dropped a few days later. Amazon credited my credit card the difference.

[Jim Becker]

Nice buy, Jeff! If you can, please post a thread at some point regarding your feelings on the Logitec remote. I'm not overly enamored by the Phillips remote I bought a couple years ago...

I'm soon to do a multiple item order for our new media room. The 52" Sharp Aquos, Sharp Blue-Ray, Onkyo SR800 7.1 system and a few do-dads. Maybe I'll get lucky with a price drop, too!

[Jeff Wright]

. . . If you can, please post a thread at some point regarding your feelings on the Logitec remote . . .

Will do, Jim. I particularly like the 890 due to its radio frequency capabilities. My components will be behind cabinet doors and does not require line-of-site to work.

What model Sharp Blu-Ray machine do you have? Do you like it? Does your Onkyo play XM or Sirius radio? I discovered the Onkyo 705 model requires an optional component to play either.

[Tim Morton]

Nice buy, Jeff! If you can, please post a thread at some point regarding your feelings on the Logitec remote. I'm not overly enamored by the Phillips remote I bought a couple years ago...

I'm soon to do a multiple item order for our new media room. The 52" Sharp Aquos, Sharp Blue-Ray, Onkyo SR800 7.1 system and a few do-dads. Maybe I'll get lucky with a price drop, too!

I have been using the Logitech Harmony 880 remote for about a year now and it ROCKS!! It does not have the rf capabilities of the 890 but its also about have the cost:D (about $100 when you can find a rebate coupon...other wise about $140 street)

Highly recommended !!!!

[Jim Becker]

WWhat model Sharp Blu-Ray machine do you have? Do you like it? Does your Onkyo play XM or Sirius radio? I discovered the Onkyo 705 model requires an optional component to play either.

I'm buying the Sharp BHDP20U Blue-Ray. It's gotten good comments and is "automajically" compatible with the Aquos remote control that comes with the LCD. :) The Onkyo SR800 HT system I will be buying is XM and Sirius compatible, but like your receiver, you still need to buy the satilite receiver component from "somewhere" to take advantage of that capability. Pretty much the same as sat-ready auto sound setups. That's a feature that I'm not personally interested in, but I know a lot of folks who love sat radio. (I have used it a few times in rental vehicles) It's unlikely we would listen to that material in our media room and in my office, I listen to WXPN.org's X-Poential Music stream.

The receiver in the Onkyo HT setup will largely handle surround from either DVD/Blue-Ray or the "cable" box. (Comcast HD right now, but likely another provider "real soon now"...) Price is right on the Onkyo setup, too, for what I want to accomplish.


How about DLP? How do they play in the DH mix? Jim.

DLP plays very well with "large screen" of good quality/performance at a low price point. The only real downside in my mind is that they take up a lot more space than a flat panel display. You pay more for the latter, but it can mount on the wall, effectively making your room bigger relative to viewing position. I do wonder if at some point they will be eclipsed in the market as the cost of LCD and plasma (as well as some new variants that are coming along) comes way down.

[Gary Keedwell]

Gary, I had to laugh when I saw that. Last weekend my wife brought home a movie she said was about a bee keeper, played by Peter Fonda. She thought it would be a typical philosophical chick flick. She was thinking the title was "Return to Yuma." It was "3:10 to Yuma." I told her I didn't think she had the right movie. We watched it, and she was gone half way through. I thought it was great, even on the 20"er.



That's funny John....With all the junk that Hollywood spits out, I was pleasantly surprised by the quality of that movie. After the movie was over, LOML and I both said " hey, that was a good flick". That doesn't happen very often.:rolleyes::)

Gary

[Jason Roehl]

I'll give a thumbs up to 3:10 as well. I just saw it this past weekend and thought it was really good.

[Bill Cunningham]

Costco is a good source for a deal, but be aware that many of the models they feature are the most previous generation. That's the case with the Sharps and the price wasn't really a lot different than available elsewhere with free delivery. I was going to try and justify our half-membership at Costco for this purchase, but it's not going to happen.

I have a somewhat different experience with Costco.. Two years ago, I bought a Daytek Plasma 42 inch T.V. This weekend it died.. Screen was all vertical wavey lines no sound etc.. Yesterday I called the Daytek people in Ontario, Explained my situation to the tech (2000 bucks for t.v that lasted two years) I was basically told, sorry your warranty is up, tough luck.. You can either bring it in the repair centre 40 miles from me, or hope your local guy has parts.. Nice folks these daytek people..NOT..
I figured I'd call costco and see if maybe I could get a deal considering the short life of this one.. I explained my problem to the lady at member services, and she said "bring it back" a little 'stunned' I said are you sure? "I bought it in October 2005"? She said "do you still have your bill? Yup I replied.. She said "Bring it back" My daughter helped me to load it into the car (the seats fold down through the trunk) and off to Costco we went.. At the returns desk I felt a little sheepish, and explained the situation and was told to "bring it back" .. There was no hassle at all... She processed the return, and asked if I would like the refund in cash?? Nope, just give me a gift card ($2065.00) I'm going to be upgrading and I sure ain't gonna buy one anyplace else after this!!! Seeing that plasmas have dropped in price considerably over the last two years, I was able to move up to a 50" Panasonic..
The floor fellow, suggested that I also upgrade my member ship card from business to Executive, because they will give me a 40.00 rebate on th e T,V. alone..(2% on everything I or my wife buys) the membership upgrade was 20.00.. A no brainer... So.. After this I would not even think of buying a large ticket item anyplace else.. If I had bought that T.V. at circuit city/futureshop etc.. What would my chances be of getting a full refund after two years? A Big FaT Zero.. And Nope, I don't have any affiliation with Costco other than being a VERY satisfied Customer... Who needs free delivery with a customer service policy like this..

[Tim Morton]

I Blue-Ray,

Now that you have picked a side jim...you need to learn the "speak"..
.its blu-ray or blue disk....or as we in the hd world refer to it...the evil dark side:D:D:D

[John Bailey]

That's funny John....With all the junk that Hollywood spits out, I was pleasantly surprised by the quality of that movie. After the movie was over, LOML and I both said " hey, that was a good flick". That doesn't happen very often.:rolleyes::)

Gary

I hear ya' Gary. That's why I haven't watched many movies in the past decade. I'm hoping when the TV comes, it'll be awhile, that I can get a list of good movies from you guys.

John

[Jim Becker]

Bill, I wasn't commenting on Costco relative to anything outside of the particular product they were offering. Their customer service is outstanding. In fact, Mitchell had the exact same experience you did (he documented that in a thread here not long ago) where a previously purchased flat screen gave up the ghost out of warranty and they also cheerfully took it back. Unfortunately, they do not have the specific model of Sharp I want, or I would buy it there, despite having to transport it myself, etc.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

The little lady says she wants at least a 42"

I should think that would lead to the compromise position of a 60" Panasonic or larger. Maybe with a Bose Surround sound too.
You could always build a dart board swing aside cover.

[John Bailey]

Maybe with a Bose Surround sound too.


Even though I'm a low-fi kind o' guy, that's like a stake in the heart.:eek:

John[/FONT]

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

Even though I'm a low-fi kind o' guy, that's like a stake in the heart.:eek:

John

Stake in the heart? Ouch. And I meant it in a good way.

[Lee DeRaud]

Bill, I wasn't commenting on Costco relative to anything outside of the particular product they were offering. Their customer service is outstanding. In fact, Mitchell had the exact same experience you did (he documented that in a thread here not long ago) where a previously purchased flat screen gave up the ghost out of warranty and they also cheerfully took it back.I've heard that CostCo is considering changing the return policy on electronics due to the large numbers of people (ab)using the current policy as a "free trade-up". Sad if true, but certainly understandable.

(Already happened, apparently. Just looked at their website: it's now showing 90 days as the limit on most electronics. That's full refund though, no BS "restocking fees" or similar ripoffs.)

[Scott Coffelt]

Well there are so many options out there right now. I went with a 40" Sony Bravia W series. I just love it. Of course that led to digital cable, cause you realize real quick that normal TV quality sucks on a 1080p tv. I was able to get many digital channels over the existing cable line. Then i went to watch a regular DVD, it sucked too. That led to a 1080p upconverter DVD player. Don't forget the HDMI cables, I find them online for cheap and they helped. No need to pay $60 the electronic borgs charge. Now i am happy, but my wife and son get to always watch it and I see it occasionally.

[Jim Becker]

Scott, you are correct, this is yet ANOTHER "slippery slope"....... LOL!

[Fred Voorhees]

I'm no electronics expert, nor a television expert, but I will say this. We now have two LCD tv's in our home. The most recent purchase was last Summer when we bought a 39" Vizio LCD and we love it.

[Gary Garmar]

I just got a 46" Sony KDL46v3000, EXCELLENT picture. One of the best LCD tv's I have seen. Very satisified.

[Bill Cunningham]

I must admit, the picture on my new 50" panasonic is amazing compared to the daytek that crapped out...
Costco told me they warranty stuff for one year, ontop of the manuf. warranty..

[dennis thompson]

Costco has a 42" Panasonic plasma for $1099 (+ $50) shipping if you can't go to Costco to pick it up). I think I'm going to buy it tomorrow. According to Costco they extend the manufacturer's warranty to 2 years.