Struggling with Table saw decision....

[Brian Fulkerson]

Recently, I received a very attractive offer to sell my Delta Hybrid table saw. I sold it. As a result, I am in the market for a cabinet saw that will suit my need for a long, long time. My budget for a new saw is right around $2K. I have looked diligently at the used market somewhat determined that I would rather buy a saw that is "ready-to-go" as opposed to buying a used saw and working on it to bring it back to tip top shape. I understand that with a little TLC, an older Unisaw can be bought for a great price. Quite frankly, I would rather be working with wood than a machine needing parts and refurbishing.

I have determined two saws that sell for right around $1,900.
Delta Unisaw X5 - 3HP, Single phase
Jet Deluxe Xacta - 5HP, Single Phase
(The 3HP model sells for $1,700)

The Powermatic 66, General, and Saw Stop are out of my budget range.

Two main concerns:

Motor performance - I have been told that the Delta motor exceeds the quality and overall size of the Taiwanese versions from Jet. (The Delta motor is manufactured in Brazil.) This is why I am leaning towards a 5Hp Jet for an extra $200 to make up the difference in performance.

Quality - There is no real "un-biased" reviews on the Jet yet. It has only been on the market for a few short months. It includes a very similar riving knife, dust shroud and arbor lock similar to the Powermatic. I love the safety features that are included with this saw, particularly the riving knife. The Guard is hands down a better system than what is included with the Delta. My Hybrid's guard was the same as what is included on the Unisaw and I hated the thing. I never used it. The Jet is finished nicer with larger chrome plate hand wheels, larger table top, and functional drawer (actually pretty handy to have). I have heard that Jet table saws are continuing to grow in quality, but still not quite equal the "longevity" as the Delta or other “high-end” table saws. The Delta has been made the same way for the last 60 years (a great number of them still as accurate as they were new). If it ain't broken, don't fix it.

Do you feel that these power and quality issues are true? Can I expect to get the same life from a Jet as I would with a Delta?

Also, am I over thinking this? I sure think that I am, particularly because of the big investment. I DO NOT want to be disappointed once I purchase this saw and I am looking for a virtual lifetime with this important tool.

I would appreciate any advice. Thanks for reading,

Brian

[scott spencer]

Hi Brian - The Uni used to be made just about entirely in the US, but AFAIK many parts come from overseas now. The motor comes from Brazil, and I understand much of the cast iron comes from China. This is not necessarily inferior to the Jet or any other, but it does make me wonder how similar it is to a "Yester" Uni.

That said, I'd be plenty happy with either. At this level, there's really no wrong answer, so get the one that makes you happiest.

Have you looked at the Steel City line, Grizzly, or Shop Fox?

[Chuck Lenz]

I think your on the right track Brian, all good saws that I know of. I don't know if the new Deltas are just as good as the old ones. JET I think makes a pretty good saw too. I'd take a good look at the Steel City also. If Delta is haveing quality issues since the B&D buyout, Steel City may be doing a better job, they are ex Delta employees that own the company and are trying to get a name. I haven't heard anything bad about them. Just my 2 cents.

[Mark Rios]

Yeah, I'll also throw in the suggestion for Steel City with all the good press their machines are getting in the price range you mention.

Also, has anyone REALLY gone wrong buying a G1023? Seems like a very solid contender as well. Very high quality machine. And we KNOW that we can't beat the personal customer service that we get here, from Mr. Balolia himself no less.

[Daryl Upole]

HI,

I was also shopping in Dec. I picked up the last of the closeout deals on the PM 66 on Amazon. I was also very frustrated with the availability and pricing of used products. In that search, I narrowed my choices down to the PM 2000 and a Grizzley with 50" fence system.

I could find the PM for under $2,200 delivered and the Grizz for under $1,300 delivered.

There's a great write up on the comparison of the Griz to the PM 66 by someone who has both at: http://www.thewoodshop.20m.com/g1023s.htm.

So, with after Christmas closeouts, etc. that particular PM may fall into your budget.

Good luck.

[Michael Gibbons]

Brian, A couple years ago, one of the big magazines did a side by side comparison of all the major TS manufacturers ( except for Sawstop because they weren't in business yet) and General came out on top. Obviously no company gets everything right, but General got more than the rest. If I would have seen the review, I would have bought the General instead of the Unisaw.

[Rod Sheridan]

I agree Michael, I do own a General 650 and find it to be the best out of the cabinet saws. (Sawstop was not available when I purchased the General.

Brian, the General is more money, and you stated it is out of your price range. There is a special promotion on now for 650 or the right tilt version in the US.

The General is made in North America, something the others cannot claim.

That said, I'd go for the Jet out of the machines you short listed if the General is outside of your budget........Regards, Rod.

[Jeffrey Makiel]

Jet equipment years ago was a lesser clone of the old Rockwell (pre-Delta) equipment. Today, Jet has established themselves as a leader and now offer their own designs on many new tools. Same said for Grizzly.

It is interesting how the importers have increased the quality and designs of their equipment, and Delta and Powermatic have stalled or reversed as they shift to Asian based manufacturing. Delta's Unisaw was considered 'high end' for the hobbyist at one time, with the Powermatic 66 being the apex.

I would still seriously look at the Unisaw today but I would also look for modern features...mainly a riving knife vs a splitter, and decent above and below dust collection capability.

Long story short, I think you won't go wrong with either General, Steel City, Grizzly, Jet or Delta. The woodworking market is saturated with offerings, and the competition is great. And, understanding the power of internet research, any crummy equipment offering would simply not survive very long unless it is offered suspiciously dirt cheap.

Happy shopping!

-Jeff :)

[Kacey Zach]

There is a review on the 3hp version of the Jet Deluxe saw. http://www.newwoodworker.com/reviews/jxactasawrvu.html

I just ordered that saw myself from Amazon. 1699 with free shipping, plus Jet has a $100 rebate on that saw that is not showing up on Amazon. I think it will also ship with two 31in parallel clamps.

I was set on the PM2000 for the longest time until I saw this Jet which is quite similiar and $600 cheaper. I wanted one of these two saws because of the riving knife. I already was victim on a kickback accident, no fingers lost but I had a nice bruise on my stomach for awhile. Yes, it was completely my fault and I was not using a guard. But with my saw, taking the guard on and off is a PITA. The newer saws have quick release guards now.

The new Grizzly G0652 looks tempting, but I could not find any reviews or much of anything for this saw due to its recent introduction.

[William OConnell]

I have an older unisaw . If I were buying a tablesaw today and wanted something new it would be a Grizzly. They have the overseas manufacturing down to a science and youl get more saw for your buck with them IMHO. Very very few complaints with them over the years from any cabinet saw buyers. When you call them someone answers the phone. You wont get better service from the other manufacturers

[Larry Anderson]

I just received my SC 35640 from Woodworkers Supply last Fri and am pleased with it. 3hp, 50" fence, LT and Ti top. I particularly like the fence; it is extremely easy to move. The only problem I've had is matching the actual fence distance from the blade to the tape readout, but think that can be solved by a phone call and relocating the tape on the rail. It is apparently well built as the shipper had trashed the packaging by the time I got it, and there was no damage to the saw. Got lucky on the price as I was given the Xmas special seven days after Xmas...$1313 shipped. The 35640 is now $1950 and backordered. They have the RT model with free shipping direct from manufacturer for $1200.

[Bob Hallowell]

The new Grizz with the riving knife looks mighty nice

Bob

[Tim Marks]

How about the Grizzly 0652? 5 Hp, 52" fence, outfeed table, digital tilt gauge, riving knife delivered for $1832 (3 Hp is same price). If I were shopping in your price range, I think I would choose the Jet or the Grizzly over the unisaw.

I think both the Brazilian and Taiwanese motors will be running longer then you will be...

[jim tracy]

My brother in-law just got the G0651 10" Heavy-Duty Cabinet Table Saw With Riving Knife and I was very impressed. If I was in the market, I would give this one a long hard look!

[Brian Fulkerson]

Though a 3Hp suits most woodworking shops, do you guys feel that a 5hp makes sence for an additional $200 bucks??

IS there a real significant increase between the two?? Power, motor size, etc... Does anyone have specific information around this??

[Sean Kinn]

Just my honest opinion...even 3hp is more than your average home shop needs. 3 hp should be able to "handle" anything you through at it, 5hp would just do it faster. Sure, we'd all love to have 3 or 5hp saws, but how often do you need to rip an 8' length of 10/4 hard maple in a matter of seconds.

[Todd Solomon]

I've got to put a strong vote in for a saw with a riving knife. I've used euro sliders for the past 7 years, and they have riving knives. I have not once had kick-back. On my previous saw, I unfortunately experienced kick-back from time to time.

So if you want this to be your last saw, I would think hard about a riving knife. If you can't afford the Powermatic PM2000, then I would look carefully at the Grizzly saws with riving knives, which fit your budget.

Todd

[Jim O'Dell]

Just my honest opinion...even 3hp is more than your average home shop needs. 3 hp should be able to "handle" anything you through at it, 5hp would just do it faster. Sure, we'd all love to have 3 or 5hp saws, but how often do you need to rip an 8' length of 10/4 hard maple in a matter of seconds.


Sure, that is true.....But it's ONLY $200.00 more!!!! That's pretty cheap for braggin rights! :D:D:D Jim.

[Jeffrey Makiel]

My experience agrees with Sean, 3 hp is plenty especially for a home hobbyist. I have never even come close to even slowing down my 3 hp Unisaw in the 18 years I've operated it.

Another consideration is the electrical service available in your home. If you plan on running a new circuit, 5 hp won't be an issue. If you're using an existing circuit, a 3 hp motor may be the maximum.

-Jeff :)

[Dennis Hatchett]

I DO NOT want to be disappointed once I purchase this saw and I am looking for a virtual lifetime with this important tool.

I would appreciate any advice. Thanks for reading,

Brian

Brian, you are wise to buy the best table saw you can afford. I have a 3hp 6 year old unisaw I'd love to sell you and it will do anything you'd ever want to do. It has never malfunctioned and seems to work better than the day I first received it. I upgraded it with a 52 inch Biesemyer, made my own indestructible extension and outfeed tables and I love the whole setup.

I don't share your concern about power. Either the Jet or the Delta will be plenty. Though I haven't seen the Deluxe Jet, I've used both the 3hp Xacta saw and the Unisaw extensively and I consider the Delta to be a superior saw. I've never noticed a lack of power in the 3 hp Jet. The Jet is a good saw as well and will do whatever you ask it to do. I just think if you used both for a day most people would see a noticeable difference in the quality of the saws and the Delta would be the winner. (Just my humble opinion). I have several large Jet tools and like them all but didn't care as much for the tablesaw. This new deluxe version is probably better so take my dated opinion with a grain of salt.

But I also play guitar and I have been fortunate to keep all my fingers up to this point. I consider myself very careful, safe, and experienced which may be why I've never had a significant accident. But there are simply too many new safety innovations to put off an upgrade any longer. I would never buy another saw like the unisaw that has paid so little attention to safety features.

I completely agree with some of the other guys that whatever you buy it should have a riving knife as a bare minimum. This Jet seems to have some nice thoughtful safety upgrades. The riving knife makes it a winner.

I would actually encourage you to consider holding off until you could afford a sawstop. I don't have one but I have played with one and they are simply one of the best quality cabinet saws on the market, not to mention the safety features.

I actually don't have the budget for a Sawstop, but I've decided that I don't want to risk my fingers any longer. Many of my friends who are better shop guys than I'll ever be have already lost digits. If something happened to my hands, I'd never forgive myself for not taking every safety precaution I could have taken.

So I'm actually going to go into a bit of debt to buy the Sawstop (I'm not a shill for the company by the way- I have no connection whatsoever).

The Jet will work well for you, but if you ever have an accident I'm not sure you will feel the same way now that the technology is available to eliminate most disasters at the tablesaw.

[Todd Bin]

On the 3 hp vs 5 hp for $200 question. I had the same option when I bought my saw. I decided that I would never stress my saw enough to need the 5hp and that I would rather take the $200 and instead of the Beis fence I would upgrade to the INCRA fence. I love the fence and I use it everytime I turn on my saw. Whereas the 5hp motor would just be sitting there waiting to never by used.

[Ray Meche]

I ended up upgrading my G1023 to the SLWX just so my neighbor would drool every time he saw it. $100 extra for the 5HP was worth every penny. Who needs teeth on a saw blade when you've got 5HP :rolleyes:. I would vote Grizz and spend the extra cash on upgrades for the saw like an aftermarket Incra miter gauge and HTC outfeed roller system. Can't go wrong for the type of money you are spending. The only thing I wish I had was a riving knife, but I never regretted my decision. GL

[Brian Fulkerson]

What is the SLWX?? And, is it safe to say that a more powerful saw is a safer saw? The theory is that underpowered saws increase the chance of kick-back. Is this true?

[Simon Dupay]

actually, the motor is a US made Marathon motor and the casting is done in Brazil AFAIK the machining is done in the US too

[Steven Wilson]

Brian, get one with a riving knife. Any of the aforementioned saws are good. As for 3hp vs 5hp, the 5hp (for a 10" blade) is useless unless you plan on using a power feeder. Use the $200 for something useful like a decent miter guage

[Toby Hoggard]

I may have no real business getting involved in this discussion due to my lack of owning a cabinet saw nor being able to afford one anytime soon, but I do own a Jet contractor saw which I purchased in 1997. I have yet to encounter any problems with this saw and have been very pleased with its performance. As for Delta, I do know that I will never purchase another of their tools again. I've had nothing but trouble with every tool I've ever owned with the Delta name upon it. Powermatic is my dream saw, but a Grizzly TS gets my vote due to price and customer service. Upon making the purchase, I had a problem with my Grizzly jointer fence and all it took was one phone call before a replacement was in the mail. No questions asked and they told me to keep what I believed to be a faulty fence without their even needing to see it.

[Chuck Burns]

I've had plenty of kickbacks over the years on sws without a riving knife. Since I upgraded to a SawStop I really see the value in the riving knife and would not purchase a saw without one. I think, if the budget will support it the SS is substantially better than any other cabinet saw out there. But if you don't want to spend that much at least buy a saw with a riving knife. As to the Jet I've got some Jet and PM tools and have been very happy with WMH's support.

[scott spencer]

actually, the motor is a US made Marathon motor and the casting is done in Brazil AFAIK the machining is done in the US too

Are you sure that the newer Uni's are sporting that motor? On several occasions I've read that it's a "WEG" motor made in Brazil. Anyone know?

[Brian Fulkerson]

I am also concerned with the differences in size between the Powermatic 3HP and the Jet HP motors. They seem to look very different. The Powermatic is longer and looks bigger. Is this worth ehe price difference?

Brian

[Ray Meche]

Brian the SLWX is the 5HP version of the G1023 with the router table wing.

http://grizzly.com/products/10-5-HP-Single-Phase-Left-Tilt-Cabinet-Saw/G1023SLWX

The price has gone up a little over the past few years and I notice now it is $150 extra for the 5HP vs 3HP. Router table works well if you can leave a base in the table and I built a router fence on the backside of the TS fence. 3HP should be plenty, but I couldn't resist. I also put an HTC roller outfeed on the back which was not cheap, but well worth it.

The Riving Knife would be nice, but I just build splitters into my Zero Clearance inserts which is quite easy.

[Chris Padilla]

Powermatic and perhaps now SawStop are typically considered the high end of 10" table saws.

General might be next followed closely by Delta Unisaw and Jet. I dunno where Shop Fox or Steel City or any other brand I've forgotten fits but most will agree that the best bang for the buck is usually Grizzly. I've had a 1023Z for about 7 years now and it is doing fine...almost wish it would have a serious problem so I could upgrade to a new Powermatic 2000 or the SawStop. :)

3 HP is plenty for the hobbiest and it can still be wired up to a 120 V/20 A outlet if you haven't any convenient 240 V/20 A or 240 V/30 A outlets available.

[John Thompson]

The Steel City with Titanium table is a "steal" from www.woodworker.com (http://www.woodworker.com) which is Woodworkers Supply for around $1200 with free shipping from Steel City. This is a $1900 saw with free shipping.

We poured water on the Titanium top early one morning at the last Atlanta WW Show. Wiped it off late afternoon and no rust. But.. the trunnions are huge and extremely well mounted. The fence is slicker than my Biesemeyer on my Uni-saw X5. It has a 5 Year Warranty.

If I didn't have the Uni-saw, I would jump on that deal. If anyone wants to purchase my 1 1/2 year old Uni-saw for $850 and pick up in Atlanta.. I will jump on that deal. ;)

Sarge..

[Larry Anderson]

I agree John, just got my SC 35640 last week and the fence is SWEET.

[John Thompson]

I agree John, just got my SC 35640 last week and the fence is SWEET.

A word of caution, Larry. If you unlock it to move the position of the fence, keep both hands on it and crouch to maintain balance and control. If you do shove it more than ever-so-lightly without a firm grasp... be prepared to power sprint to the end of the rail to catch it before it launches and ends up in the adjacent county. :D

Just kiddin' of course but.. I think you get the point intended if you hae the saw...

Sarge..

[Ray Meche]

That looks like a cool top. The Left Tilt version still shows to be $600 more ($1950) + shipping unless I am reading it wrong. $600 is steep to go from Right to Left.:eek:

Checked again and it does say Right Tilt models only. Normal price is $1350 + Shipping. Still really good deal when you factor in shipping if you are OK with a RT.

[Brian Penning]

I thought I was all set when I bought my General but I've just sold it and am anxiously awaiting delivery of a Sawstop.

[Larry Anderson]

That looks like a cool top. The Left Tilt version still shows to be $600 more ($1950) + shipping unless I am reading it wrong. $600 is steep to go from Right to Left.:eek:

Checked again and it does say Right Tilt models only. Normal price is $1350 + Shipping. Still really good deal when you factor in shipping if you are OK with a RT.

You read it right. When I ordered my LT they were $1350 on the web sight but they gave me the Xmas special of $1147.