Entertainement Armoire ..too much for a novice??

[matt pickston]

Hi All
New to the site. Quickly saw the invaluable knowledge base and made my donation.

I unfortuanely don't get to spend much time at WW with job and little ones. I want to make an entertainment armoire and was thinking of trying this one........... http://www.popularwoodworking.com/projectplans_display/?planid=11100. But wanted some advice.

I do not have a planer or joiner so was toying with the idea of making it with dimensional poplar from a box store. Priced it out and can do it relatively cheap. From reading here and elsewhere, one concern would be finishing it, and the variations in the green poplar. I definatley want a dark finish so it won't be too bad. I was thinking of staining it a dark walnut....thoughts? How would you finish it?

Can a somewhat novice do this project? Would you use plywood for the sides instead of solid wood?

Any other suggestions, advice, and question would be appreciated.

[Jim Becker]

Welcome to SMC!

The particular project you cite is pretty straight-forward. If you take your time, you should be able to build it successfully even as a relatively new woodworker. But be sure you have the space to work on it...it's physically large.

Keep in mind that the poplar from the box store is often not flat or straight...you'll be better served by purchasing surfaced poplar from a lumber supplier.

The green heartwood in poplar will turn brown with exposure to UV and normal oxidation. You can successfully color poplar using a water soluble dye...do not use pigment stain...followed by a sealer of de-waxed shellac. In this way, poplar can easily mimic a variety of other hardwoods. You do want to avoid poplar stock with mineral staining when you select your material, however. That is not easily covered up. Fine for secondary wood, but not for the "show" pieces...

[matt pickston]

Thanks for the reply Jim. Seen your picture alot scanning the forums.
So you would recommend buying s3s from a lumber store? Is that what you mean.
Also, not sure what "You do want to avoid poplar stock with mineral staining when you select your material, however" means.

Thanks.

[Art Mulder]

Welcome to SMC, Matt!!

Like Jim said, it is a big piece, so be sure you have room for it.
Sure, you can use plywood for the sides - Birch plywood looks similar to maple plywood, but costs less. You'd want to do some test staining on scrap, though. I honestly don't know how close it would look to poplar when stained.

I've had some success with plywood from a big box store, but others loathe the quality there and strongly recommend you try getting plywood from a lumber supplier for better quality.


All that aside... I would also suggest taking a step back and looking at the big picture. Are you SURE you want to build this project? I ask this, because in my opinion, with todays flat screen TVs that are everywhere, I no longer see any point to these huge entertainment armoires that everyone used to build.

What are you going to do with 20" of depth, when your TV is only 5" deep ? Most armoires were designed for these big 32" tv's with huge deep tubes in them. At the very least, I would design an armoire to be only deep enough for the components. But really, I'd more likely build a low cabinet for the DVD/VCR components and just put the flat screen on top of it, or put the TV in a shallower wall-mounted cabinet.

...art

[Walt Caza]

Hello Matt, ...and welcome to the Creek!
Hats off to our newest contributor! Good to have you on the team.

I am afraid I have two answers for you:
The enthusiastic ww in me wants to tell you to just go for it, and solve
any problems (which we will call challenges) along the way.
After all, that is the only sure way I know how to not be a newby anymore.
All lessons in life cost... safety first please!

A more practical approach would be to build smaller projects first, which
offer many lessons. Going through the building process will point out
where you need to spend time, money and effort to make your shopspace
and skillset more functional.
You do not mention what tools are available to you.
A jointer and planer work together to dress solid stock, without them you
will have to be plenty creative.
Sheetgoods are a good choice for a carcase. Flat, stable and not subject
to seasonal wood movement, which can be a handful for a newby.

There are unlimited ways to build boxes, even an armoire. For a rookie,
I could see using light colour plywood core hardwood veenered from a bigbox store.
Snug dado joints for top and bottom cut with a homemade router guide,
which would be useful for other things. Probably at least one full width
shelf dadoed between the sides as well, to firm up the box.
Maybe 1/4" sheetgood back, dadoed in with either tablesaw or homemade
router table, to lock out sway.
Facings of solid wood, nailed and filled, or screwed and plugged, or even biscuited.
Raised panel doors would be a real trick. Maybe see what you can buy,
and dimension your cabinet to fit them? Or build simple 5pc 1/4" flat planel
doors with stub tenons on the t-saw.
There is no end to the options, just a matter of how you are set up. (?)
Good luck,
Walt
:)

[matt pickston]

Thanks Art. I feel at home already!!!!!!!

You make good points and I will need to find a local lumber supplier.

I do have a CRT 35" I wanted the Armoire for. Also, the room it is in has 18ft ceilings so the size of the piece will actually help the room.

ANother unspoken reason for wanting to makie it is that , my wife, does not like many of the plans I beleive I can pull off. Finallly, I found one she approves of. But we'll see what she thinks of the finished piece!!!!LOL.

[matt pickston]

Thanks for the replies.

I have a delta 650 TS with dado blades, Plunge router, am in process of adding a router wing to my TS, mitre saw. I will have a biscuit joiner soon.

I have made several smaller projects such as large toy boxes, book cases and also built a window seat/bookcase for my kids room. All came out okay, but I fully understand what you mean by the learning process. CErtainly were many changes and mistakes no amount of pre-thought coud have avoided. Expereince is king.

Thanks for your feedback.

[Matt Meiser]

One of my early projects was a TV armiore with cabinets on either side for electronics and storage. It was a major job but it turned out great and has held up very well over the past 7 years. Unfortunately it will probably reach the end of its life in our living room later this year as we plan to get a 42" widescreen that won't fit. When we do I plan to build one of the newer console-type entertainment centers.

When I built it and flat, widescreen TV's were 5 figures, I said someday maybe it could become a clothes armiore for our bedroom without the side cabinets, but then we moved and we don't really need the storage and don't have the wall space in our bedroom anyway. It will probably end up in the basement.

Large cabinets are actually fairly straight forward to build because they are mostly just big plywood boxes.

[scott spencer]

Hi Matt - You can do it! You've got enough experience, and it sounds like you've got the desire and the brain to figure out how to do it with what you've got. Plywood carcass with a hardwood face frame isn't overly difficult...just big! I surprised myself by doing a similar project my 2nd "rookie" season. I actually found the armiore easier to do than my wife's jewelry box later the same year. Think it through, double check your dimensions, and don't fret mistakes...it's just wood, and it does grow on trees! :D

The choice of woods is ultimately yours, but I doubt I'd choose poplar unless you plan to paint it....and if you plan to paint it, well..... :eek: ;)

Good luck and please keep us posted.

[Raymond McInnis]

http://www.woodworkinghistory.com/armoire_homepage.jpg

http://www.woodworkinghistory.com/

this is the william and mary armoire that i constructed out of old growth douglas fir. when i made it about 30 years ago, i had a unisaw and a 6" jointer and (just for the project, a 6" portable makita power planer), so -- with the last two tools, i had a little advantage

however, i also had to make do, just as your acknowledging, and for me, that attitude is the most important component.

the william and mary style calls for raised panels. i cut the raised panels with my unisaw, and suggest that maybe this is a direction for you to consider.

i don't have 18' ceilings, only 8', and thus had to scale down the william and mary style. for your 18' ceilings, scaling down isn't a problem.

the molding at the top, and between the top and bottom i bought at the lumber yard, i think, but could have made it, too, because the top molding consists of a half round and a cove molding combined, and the middle molding simply a half round

i hope that this helps

[Andrew Nemeth]

Matt,

Just remember when you look at a big project like this that it is only a series of (relatively) easy steps. Just take it one step at a time and you can do just about anything. However, it may be more economical and satisfying to start with a few smaller projects to gain confidence and skills before devoting to such a large scale project.

Where are you located? I bet you can find someone in your area that might be willing to help you dimension some rough lumber for your project for a beer or two. For the same price you can get S4S popular at a big box store you could build the same piece out of cherry or maple (not that there is anything wrong with poplar if that is your preference). Not only will you same money but you will be learning a few things as well.

You may also look at community and recreation centers in your area. Some offer classes and open shop time where you can meet other people, learn a few things, and have access the equipment that is not available to you now.

[Steve LaFara]

To give you a little encouragement, I present this...

http://www.fototime.com/F7E80780EABE36F/standard.jpg

This is my first piece of "furniture" and was made of solid cherry for the case and veneered bees wing Makore doors. It took a long time for me as I made a bunch of mistakes along the way, mostly because I did not plan enough up front, didn't take my time with measurements, thought I could do more than I really knew how and so on.

I could have easily used pywood for the slabs but I have a jointer and planner and wanted something out of solid wood. If I can do this, you can too. Take your time, plan everything out and go over the details again and again. My wife did the finish work as I don't have the patience for it and I will eventually take a finished shot. This is by far my proudest moment in wood working and taught me a lot about being able to accomplish more than you think you can. Jump in, the worst that can happen is that you'll learn some stuff along the way.

[frank shic]

glen huey makes some GORGEOUS reproduction furniture but i'm not sure that i would try running the bottom of that MASSIVE three paneled door over a jointer the way he does!

[Jim Becker]

Also, not sure what "You do want to avoid poplar stock with mineral staining when you select your material, however" means.

Poplar occasionally has some dark purple staining that is from mineral content in the soil. Avoid boards with that unless it's a paint-only project.

And yes, buy your material from a real lumber supplier rather than the 'borg. Better quality; lower cost.

[Vic Damone]

I have one that's doing a great job of hiding a 36" diag. Sony XBR CRT. The television is very heavy so I installed six inch casters under the cabinets skirt. But just yesterday my wife seems to have plans for eliminating the CRT and Armoire in favor of an articulating wall mounted flat screen setup.

You might want to look into an elevating flat screen cabinet were the screen pops up and still have storage for the electronics.

Vic

[Al Killian]

Aspen(poplar) is almost pure white and easy to stain. The case is fairly easy. Just take your time with it.

[Jim Becker]

Aspen(poplar) is almost pure white and easy to stain. The case is fairly easy. Just take your time with it.

The majority of poplar used for furniture making is tulip poplar, (also known as yellow poplar) which is a member of the magnolia family, not an aspen. Aspen is much lighter in weight and tends to be "fuzzy" when you try and work with it. Most that I've seen is sold as hobby wood.

[matt pickston]

Thanks for everyones feedack. It as changed my thinking somewhat. Our scouring this and other websites, i think I may be best served to get a planer. From what I have found, I can joint the edges on the router table.

This way I can buy lumber and mill it myself. THoughts??

After seeing Raymonds armoire, I wna to make that!! Beautiful.

HAve found a local lumber store dealing in hardwoods and wil go there and learn more. Never dealt with wood ths way and have always been intimated. Looking forward to learnng.

Will et you all know how I proceed. Cheers.

Raymond, if you have a plan for your Armoire, i would love to see it.

[Rick Thom]

The question remains,; it's not can you, but should you? I am currently starting to build my new console style to replace the beautifully crafted armoire which is some 14 years old. Funny that my new 42" LCD won't fit into a cab made for a 32" set which was state of the art then.

[Mark Blum]

I have one that's doing a great job of hiding a 36" diag. Sony XBR CRT. The television is very heavy so I installed six inch casters under the cabinets skirt. But just yesterday my wife seems to have plans for eliminating the CRT and Armoire in favor of an articulating wall mounted flat screen setup.
I too have a large armoire I built to house a 36" Sony XBR television. You aren't kidding about it being heavy. Even with two people lifting that TV will give you a hernia. I took great pains to make sure there was plenty of support for that weight, and after 8 years there still isn't a hint of sag anywhere in the armoire.

However, the writing is on the wall that such a large piece of furniture won't be needed much longer when I finally get around to moving to a flat-screen TV. I put so much time and effort into building that piece (made of cherry) that I hate the thought that it will be a dinosaur with no real purpose.

I don't think it is a good idea for anybody to build an entertainment center geared toward a 4:3 screen setup these days. All TV's will soon be 16:9.

[George Bregar]

Thanks for everyones feedack. It as changed my thinking somewhat. Our scouring this and other websites, i think I may be best served to get a planer. From what I have found, I can joint the edges on the router table.

This way I can buy lumber and mill it myself. THoughts?? I think I would get a jointer first, you can get the lumber supplier to plane the boards. But ultimately, you need both.

Second think, about using cherry. You'll be happier in the end. I use poplar for drawers.

I think most would agree that making small things is harder than large things. Tolerances are tighter, and even small errors the eye can see. There is nothing especially difficult in that piece. Go for it.

[Steveo O'Banion]

First of all Matt, I'd do it IF you have the stick-to-itiveness and are willing to accept you will make mistakes and can work through them. If you have the abilities, you can make it happen.

My first project in stained glass was a 96 piece 16" x 32" halfround window, the smallest project in our beginner class full of beginners:eek:. (Instructors goal was to sell glass and studio time.) 20 weeks later I had it set in the window looking great. I'd never even seen art glass done before.

Steve, I grew up believing plywood was junk and my work was only good enough for solid wood. (HA, what a young fool I was!:D) Plywood is cheaper, comes in sizes unavailable naturally, it's stronger, more stable, saves trees, saves time and makes really sexy looking panels with bookmatching. I love good plywood now and prefer it. I even use veneer on BB plywood.

I'd suggest you save some time and money, use the ply when you can!


To give you a little encouragement, I present this...

http://www.fototime.com/F7E80780EABE36F/standard.jpg

This is my first piece of "furniture" and was made of solid cherry for the case and veneered bees wing Makore doors. It took a long time for me as I made a bunch of mistakes along the way, mostly because I did not plan enough up front, didn't take my time with measurements, thought I could do more than I really knew how and so on.

I could have easily used pywood for the slabs but I have a jointer and planner and wanted something out of solid wood. If I can do this, you can too. Take your time, plan everything out and go over the details again and again. My wife did the finish work as I don't have the patience for it and I will eventually take a finished shot. This is by far my proudest moment in wood working and taught me a lot about being able to accomplish more than you think you can. Jump in, the worst that can happen is that you'll learn some stuff along the way.

[Jim Becker]

I think I would get a jointer first, you can get the lumber supplier to plane the boards. But ultimately, you need both..

I unfortunately feel the opposite. A jointer without a planer is kinda close to holding one hand behind your back while swinging a sledge hammer at a brad. There are many ways to get an edge straight, and you really can't use the jointer for flattening a board without a thickness planer to take over for the second face. Therefore, the jointer has limited value by itself. IMHO, of course, and the cost was, well...low... :)

To the OP, do give some thought to the state of the TV world today. The folks that bring it up make a lot of sense. You could build the armoire for use as...and armoire...and/or build a lower media cabinet for use with a flat screen or DLP set. That way your efforts will have greater longevity. At least be sure to provide for "armoire" use later if still want to use the piece with a conventional 4:3 TV or small flat screen now...

[matt pickston]

Wonderful replaies from everyone has of course taken me down another route.

I feel alittle stupid. Found a hardwood lumebr store closest to my house and paid them a visit. I don't why I thought I could only buy rough sawn hardwood and thus my need for dimensional lumber from HD or Lowes. I guess all my confusion with board feet etc. got me stuck in a weord course of thinking. Seems really stupid now

But, as you know, me now, they sell cherry, maple, oak stanadard sizes S4S. Perfect.

The question now becomes do I do the project with the TV change as people have mentioned. As I mentioned a large piece would go well in the room. Then, do I want a cherry finish or maple finished dark like mahogany. Seems a sin to color cherry.

Either way, thanks for all the feedback, and I will be requesting more soon I am sure.

[matt pickston]

Steve... plywood iwould be great for sides and back. Would you , or can you, make panel types sides with plywood for the panel.....non-edged of course.

What do yuo mean by making panels with it. any photo examples?

[/quote]
"Steve, I grew up believing plywood was junk and my work was only good enough for solid wood. (HA, what a young fool I was!:D) Plywood is cheaper, comes in sizes unavailable naturally, it's stronger, more stable, saves trees, saves time and makes really sexy looking panels with bookmatching. I love good plywood now and prefer it. I even use veneer on BB plywood."

I'd suggest you save some time and money, use the ply when you can![/quote]

[Brent Ring]

Welcome to the Creek! No matter what you do, take your time. The "measure x times and cut once" that I forget on occasion really applies on your first "real" piece.

But man is it a lot of fun. Make sure that you enjoy doing it too!

[Brian Brown]

Matt.

There is no reason you can't do this as your first project. There has been some really good advice given here, especially the part about taking your time and enjoying yourself. My first large project http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=54897 was enjoyable, until I started pushing myself toward the end, and it turned into a chore.

In my area, I can't get veneer over plywood. I can only get veneer over MDF. I hate the stuff, and it is so heavy. The case would have weighed less if I used solid wood, and there would be no chance of sanding through the veneer. Plywood usually has the same thin veneer, and it might cost more than solid wood. (the MDF I used cost more).

The worst mistake I made was trying to finish it myself when I didn't have the right facilities. Nothing like getting a bunch of dust nibs caught in the finish after all that work. If I had it to do over again, I would have taken it to a cabinet shop to get the finish sprayed on properly.