Building platform in my shop

[Rick Kalin]

I just had a steel utility building built for my shop/garage. The building is 28x48 and 12' at the eaves and 15.5' at the peak. I want to build a platform at one end 8' off the ground for storage. I thought this would be just like an outside deck but inside the shop. The main steel columns are 48" apart but I had steel studs installed 16" on center and installed drywall. How can I attach a ledger to the back wall. I have not been able to find lag screws that can be used with steel studs.

[Chris Padilla]

Rick,

That is a might "juicy" sized shop you have there! Wow...pics are a must and I'll personally ensure NO ONE answers your question until such pics are posted! ;) haha

What is the size of the platform you want to build? You might consider putting legs on it or it sounds to me like you'll want to break into the drywall and bolt the ledger to the main steel columns. With a couple of 1x12s sistered and machine-bolted to the main steel columns on 48" centers, you ought to be able to hold up a few elephants. It all depends on size as to what size lumber you need.

[Mick Zelaska]

As long as you have all that room in your new shop I would suggest installing industrial steel shelving (similar to what you see at Home Depot or Lowes). It is sturdy, free standing, easibly adjustable and movable. I put 24 lf of 4' wide used industrial shelving in my garage shop for a couple hundred dollars that got all my lumber and sheetgoods up off the floor with plenty of room for other storage.

[Chase Gregory]

I'd recommend having your platform bear all of its own weight independent of your exterior wall - or get the company that engineered your building to specify attachment to thier system based on a conservative loading per lineal foot.

At 48" o.c. your primary structure still must only be light gauge cold rolled material. Those systems are designed with paper thin collateral load margins - even more so than standard pre-engineered steel - (which is part of what makes them so much more economical than hot rolled systems). I'd be careful not to do anything that would transfer the liability of the structural systems performance to you.

Also, depending on the construction of your slab (thickness & reinforcing), be careful using columns or you can pretty easily crack it depending on how much load you put in your loft. It doesn't take much to crack a 4" slab with a point load over time.

Chaser

[Reed Wells]

Rick what I did was wall off 10" x 8" high and that is where I have my spray room. Storage overhead.

[Jim Becker]

I'd recommend having your platform bear all of its own weight independent of your exterior wall - or get the company that engineered your building to specify attachment to thier system based on a conservative loading per lineal foot.

Agree. Make it freestanding so you are only depending upon the building structure to keep it in place. And as Reed did, it's an opportunity for things like a spray room or "controlled access" storage, office, hand-tool room, etc.

[Chris Padilla]

Rick what I did was wall off 10" x 8" high and that is where I have my spray room. Storage overhead.

That's a mighty tiny spray room even for doll furniture! ;)

[Greg Cole]

And ya'd need "mini-me" to be your painter. :D
'Nuther vote for free standing with intentions of making a finishing room in there and overhead storage.

Greg - Who hates trying to apply finishes where he makes dust.

[Jack Porter]

Hey Rick,
I completely agree with Chase, you do not want to add any weight to the building frame. Those structures push the limit on cold formed steel design codes as is, and if anything was ever to happen structurally to the building, you would be on the hook. A free standing structure is your best bet, and definately check your slab on grade for the post loads. You can ealsiy find some "rules of thumb" by googling post loads on slabs on grade.

[Rob Will]

I'd recommend having your platform bear all of its own weight independent of your exterior wall - or get the company that engineered your building to specify attachment to thier system based on a conservative loading per lineal foot.

At 48" o.c. your primary structure still must only be light gauge cold rolled material. Those systems are designed with paper thin collateral load margins - even more so than standard pre-engineered steel - (which is part of what makes them so much more economical than hot rolled systems). I'd be careful not to do anything that would transfer the liability of the structural systems performance to you.

Also, depending on the construction of your slab (thickness & reinforcing), be careful using columns or you can pretty easily crack it depending on how much load you put in your loft. It doesn't take much to crack a 4" slab with a point load over time.

Chaser

What Chase and Jim said...........it needs to support it's own weight.
I would weld it up out of 3x3 square tubing for the legs and channel iron for the horizontal members (size depending on what you intend to put up there on the loft). Put a 3/4" plywood deck on it. You might install a "foot" on each leg and cusion the floor with a piece of plywood to match the foot. (again, depending on weight). With steel you can get a thinner profile than building with wood in this application. You end up with more room.

Rob

[Rick Kalin]

Thanks for all the replies. What I had in mind is an 8' deep platform across the 28' back wall. I was wondering if attaching it to the steel studs would be strong enough. I intend it for storage of household items, Christmas decorations, outdoor decorations, lights, etc. - no elephants. I at first thought of making it free standing with posts along the wall and in the front but the electrician placed a data box on the back wall right up against the side wall which makes it hard to put a post in that corner. I have some pictures but have to figure-out hoe to post them - I have not done this before.
Rick

[Jim Niedermeier]

I've got to lean towards Mike Z's idea. Industrial Shelving, often called Pallet Racks are in plentiful supply right now due to the manufacturing slowdown. There are many in storage and available in the secondary markets, ie. auctions, used tool resellers etc. I purchased 46 linear feet of racking 10' tall and installed it in my 24' x 36" shed. Incredible storage. You could buy 6 10 foot sections and cut down the last section to 8' giving you 28' across the back, and put them in two deep. Put the first shelf tall enough to walk under and skin the shelf/floor with at least 3/4" ply. Walla! Instant second story. Better yet, can be adusted, moved and removed. I paid $550 for 46' including the slats and plywood to skin the shelves. Best thing for storage I ever did. Each section is rated for 18,000 lbs. Holds my Christmas stuff and many board feet of cherry just fine. Scrounge the auctions, classifieds and re-sellers. Won't put an ounce of load on your structure at all.

[Eric Haycraft]

There is a chance that the steel studs are rated for load bearing applications, but I would highly doubt it. In terms of the data box, you can probably cantilever over that. It would be pretty easy to keep a post 3-4 feet away from the corner. As others have mentioned, make sure the floor can support posts. If not, you will have to cut through and make footings.

[Jim Becker]

Rick, moving the data box that the electrician installed in the corner is quite doable if it solves your issues with proper support for a platform.

[Rick Kalin]

Here are some photos:
79292

79293

79300
The data box is to the right of the electric panel, the supply conduit comes in the back and would be difficult to move; there is no room left of the electric panel and there is conduit behind the drywall to the top of the wall.

[Eric Haycraft]

Cantilever over that puppy. Just make sure to stay 36 inches away from the panel with your post.

Gorgeous shop by the way. I am jealous.

[Rick Kalin]

Cantilever over that puppy. Just make sure to stay 36 inches away from the panel with your post.

Gorgeous shop by the way. I am jealous.

What I was thing was to put a post between the light switch and the left of the electric box. This would be about 36" from the corner, and another a couple of feet from the corner along the right hand wall. What I am not sure is weather to use 4x4 of 6x6 posts. I check deck building books and Lowe's online deck building software for size and the determining factor on post size is spacing between posts. I would like to have 9' spacing between posts in the front with double 2x8 beams.

[Jim Becker]

There is no reason that the vertical support columns in that corner for the loft need to be right against the exterior wall...you can offset the post so you have appropriate access to that panel if you engineer it right. I do agree that particular arrangement would be very involved to alter!

And wow...great building!

[Eric Haycraft]

That should work. I think you can be 12 inches to the side of the electrical panel to meet code. Anyway, regarding the post sizing.. If you have a 36 inch cantilever, it will put roughly twice the size of the cantilever plus half of whatever is left over in the original span.. so 3 + 3 + (9-3)/2 or 9 feet worth of weight on that post. So, it would be bearing the weight of a 9 foot span instead of 4.5 feet - the load if the post was in the corner. Based upon this, you shouldn't need the second post on the adjacent side.
Regardless, I think that you can get by with 4x4 if you attach them to the wall midway up. If unattached completely, go with 6x6 or 3 2x4's.

Also, if completely unattached and not enclosed, you will need plywood or wooden braces in at least two corners to keep it from twisting and falling down.

[Chris Padilla]

I've got to lean towards Mike Z's idea. Industrial Shelving, often called Pallet Racks are in plentiful supply right now due to the manufacturing slowdown. There are many in storage and available in the secondary markets, ie. auctions, used tool resellers etc. I purchased 46 linear feet of racking 10' tall and installed it in my 24' x 36" shed. Incredible storage. You could buy 6 10 foot sections and cut down the last section to 8' giving you 28' across the back, and put them in two deep. Put the first shelf tall enough to walk under and skin the shelf/floor with at least 3/4" ply. Walla! Instant second story. Better yet, can be adusted, moved and removed. I paid $550 for 46' including the slats and plywood to skin the shelves. Best thing for storage I ever did. Each section is rated for 18,000 lbs. Holds my Christmas stuff and many board feet of cherry just fine. Scrounge the auctions, classifieds and re-sellers. Won't put an ounce of load on your structure at all.

Yeah, but will it hold an elephant...or two...or three? :confused:

;)

Oh, amazing shop...whatcha gonna fill 'er up with??? :D

[Rick Kalin]

That should work. I think you can be 12 inches to the side of the electrical panel to meet code. Anyway, regarding the post sizing.. If you have a 36 inch cantilever, it will put roughly twice the size of the cantilever plus half of whatever is left over in the original span.. so 3 + 3 + (9-3)/2 or 9 feet worth of weight on that post. So, it would be bearing the weight of a 9 foot span instead of 4.5 feet - the load if the post was in the corner. Based upon this, you shouldn't need the second post on the adjacent side.
Regardless, I think that you can get by with 4x4 if you attach them to the wall midway up. If unattached completely, go with 6x6 or 3 2x4's.

Also, if completely unattached and not enclosed, you will need plywood or wooden braces in at least two corners to keep it from twisting and falling down.

How about 4x4 post and securing the ledger/beam to the wall instead of attaching the post? would drywall screws in each of the studs be enough?

[Chris Padilla]

I'd say a big NO to using drywall screws...uh, they are made to hold drywall up. :) Just use some #10 wood screws...maybe even larger.

[Eric Haycraft]

I would be a bit worried about mere screws to keep it from twisting and falling. If you can't bolt it somehow, maybe free standing is the best route for you. That would mean 4x6 posts and corner bracing in at least two corners.
Good luck.

[Charles Wiggins]

I just had a steel utility building built for my shop/garage. The building is 28x48 and 12' at the eaves and 15.5' at the peak. I want to build a platform at one end 8' off the ground for storage. I thought this would be just like an outside deck but inside the shop. The main steel columns are 48" apart but I had steel studs installed 16" on center and installed drywall. How can I attach a ledger to the back wall. I have not been able to find lag screws that can be used with steel studs.

Don't make the steel studs bear that kind of weight. Make it freestanding. If you want to attach the ledger to the wall, just for alignment purposes, I would use carriage or hex head bolts, nuts and washers.

[Rick Kalin]

Don't make the steel studs bear that kind of weight. Make it freestanding. If you want to attach the ledger to the wall, just for alignment purposes, I would use carriage or hex head bolts, nuts and washers.

My original thought was to have posts and beam both in front and back but when I looked at deck building books and read about ledger attached to the house I thought it would be simpler to do this but I see from this discussion that that would not be a good idea; back to the original plan. I don't intend to make the steel studs carry the weight I just want to attach it to the wall so it won't move. Back at Lowe's I found these Phillips II High Performance Wood to Metal Screws - #12 x 2 3/4 that have a drill point to pierce both wood and steel studs. To secure the posts to the floor I thought of drilling a hole in the concrete and install a bolt with epoxy; the bolt going up into the bottom of the post. This is a system from Simpson Strong-Tie. Or I could use compression anchors through a Post Base nailing the post to the base.

[Jack Porter]

Hey rick, if you're going to use mechanical or epoxy anchors into the slab on grade, you probably want to make sure you don't penetrate the full slab depth. I'm thinking you might be better off using a SST saddle type post base, this will give you the opportunity of plumb then nain the post.

On a different note, I'm not sure what building inspectors are like in your area, but some get really picky about storage platforms and lateral support, ie. bracing. just a heads up

[Chase Gregory]

I'm so jealous of that nice shop that I wasn't even going to comment anymore...but...

You can pretty easily make an 8' wide structural floor of whatever length w/ t&g plywood glue/nailed on top of a 2x4 @ 24" framework (for light attic storage) or at 16" for bedroom loading, or go w/ 2x6's @ 24" to have the same loading as a living room...

Double 2x8's is more than enough for your beamlines supported at 9' since the beams are only loaded from one side. Single 2x8's would work, but lapping a double to make a 28' beamline is cleaner. The 3' cantilever is nothing for them.

4x4's can handle the loading no problem as long as you have your system braced - (which is important for an 8x28 elevated floor on pegs). Worst case post might see 1440lbs at a full 40lbs sq ft on your platform - which is precious little for a 4x4 taking only vertical load.

But with only 4 posts front and back, 6x6 posts aren't all that costly and you can bypass the floor system with them by inletting your beam, then sheet the front edge of your platform w/ a plywood 'modesty' wall that ties the floor system to the posts, screens view, and braces the 'system'.

I'd brace the whole thing up top this way and you actually wind up w/ more usable space as it allows you to stack/store items all the way up to the edge. You could even put racks/shelves/hooks oun the face of it that you only access on occasion by ladder.

Bracing is the issue.

VERY nice shop, btw!

Very, very nice!!

Chaser

[Rick Kalin]

I'm so jealous of that nice shop that I wasn't even going to comment anymore...but...

You can pretty easily make an 8' wide structural floor of whatever length w/ t&g plywood glue/nailed on top of a 2x4 @ 24" framework (for light attic storage) or at 16" for bedroom loading, or go w/ 2x6's @ 24" to have the same loading as a living room...

Double 2x8's is more than enough for your beamlines supported at 9' since the beams are only loaded from one side. Single 2x8's would work, but lapping a double to make a 28' beamline is cleaner. The 3' cantilever is nothing for them.

4x4's can handle the loading no problem as long as you have your system braced - (which is important for an 8x28 elevated floor on pegs). Worst case post might see 1440lbs at a full 40lbs sq ft on your platform - which is precious little for a 4x4 taking only vertical load.

But with only 4 posts front and back, 6x6 posts aren't all that costly and you can bypass the floor system with them by inletting your beam, then sheet the front edge of your platform w/ a plywood 'modesty' wall that ties the floor system to the posts, screens view, and braces the 'system'.

I'd brace the whole thing up top this way and you actually wind up w/ more usable space as it allows you to stack/store items all the way up to the edge. You could even put racks/shelves/hooks oun the face of it that you only access on occasion by ladder.

Bracing is the issue.

VERY nice shop, btw!

Very, very nice!!

Chaser


Chase, thanks for the response. I am not familiar with some of the terms you used. For instance .. inletting your beam... and ...'modesty' wall that ties the floor system to the posts...
thanks
Rick