Circular table skirt

[alex grams]

I am developing plans for a round kitchen table made from cherry. I have the stock for the top, but now want to develop the plans/technique for making a 3" table skirt that sits on the bottom of the table a couple of inches in from the outside of the table.

I presume the best way to do this is with resawing some cherry into 1/8" pieces, making a form, and then bending and glueing them in the form. I have the necessary tools to do this, but if there are any flows with this or anyone has any suggestions on an easier process, I am all ears.

Thanks in advance.

[Chuck Saunders]

That is how I would approach the task.

[alex grams]

Is there a rule of thumb on how thin you need to cut the stock to bend it to a tighter radius.

This table will be roughly 40"-44" diameter (depending on how much i can get out of my stock once i jointed/plane it down).

Also, when doing this kind of bending, does anyone make the radius slightly smaller to account for springing back out of the bend once it is released from the form?

Thanks again for any advice offered.

[Mike McCann]

Alex

When I made an apron for my poker table it was our of plywood and I did kerf cuts to the back. I know it was not pretty but it worked. My next one I will do with thin pieces to make it look more solid. one thing I did to make it more sturdy was to route a dado all away around to slip the apron in.

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o223/mackel40/P1010046-1.jpg

[alex grams]

Ahh, good advice on the dado. I will already have the router set up on a compass arm to cut the table circular, so the dado inset will be the best and easiest idea to mount the skirt in, then just some glue and maybe a couple of pocket hole screws to hold it in. It will be tough to get the thickness to match from the dado to the skirt, but if i oversize it I think wedging the back will be the best way to shim it up.

Dang.. that looks like a lot of cutting.

[Jamie Buxton]

You can buy curved wood aprons. http://www.tablelegs.com/Aprons/RoundAprons.aspx is one source.

[Doug Shepard]

What's the leg setup? Pedestal in the middle or table legs joined to the apron?

[Rick Thom]

Another way to do this is to create the apron using stacked layers of substrate and apply a veneer to it.
To make the substrate you can use any stable material ie MDF or poplar, plywood etc. You divide your apron into segments and cut out the shapes from your flat substrate. You create a "stack" by gluing together successive layers you cut out to form the final height of the apron. Then you apply a veneer to the face of that "stacked" apron. The segments can be made by creating a pattern and routing.
I will try and attach an example if my computer cooperates.

[alex grams]

Jamie-
I like the thought of how easy it would be to buy a skirt, but for 100$, and considering I have all the tools to make the skirt, and want to learn the technique for curved faces for future projects, i would rather just make it on my own (nothing against your suggestion).

Doug-
I anticipate doing a pedestal style leg that flares out into 4 feet at the bottom. We have 4 chairs that will go around it, and with 4 legs coming down, it makes for a tight fit on each side with the legs. I still have to finalize this, but if i do make 4 legs i will mount them in line with the skirt (and make 4 pieces) or mount them interior to the skirt.

Rick, i like the mdf backed pieces with the veneer, but being as it is veneer, how did you do the wood bead design along the bottom of your table? Did you have a solid cut piece you put at the bottom of the skirt? Because I presume with the veneer and you routing it, you would expose the MDF at the beading.

I like the thought of cutting the MDF pattern and veneering it. I will have to decide either that process or the bent form glue up style.

[Doug Shepard]

J...
I anticipate doing a pedestal style leg that flares out into 4 feet at the bottom.
...


OK. I was going to suggest something but then realized it was only valid if the leg joinery was inline with the skirt. So far the biggest I've done is half-moon table size and even that had a center leg inline with the apron. A complete uninterrupted circular apron is bound to pose some extra challenges I haven't dealt with.

[Rick Thom]

Jamie-
Rick, i like the mdf backed pieces with the veneer, but being as it is veneer, how did you do the wood bead design along the bottom of your table? Did you have a solid cut piece you put at the bottom of the skirt? Because I presume with the veneer and you routing it, you would expose the MDF at the beading.

I like the thought of cutting the MDF pattern and veneering it. I will have to decide either that process or the bent form glue up style.
Alex, in this case I made the beaded piece and added it onto the bottom of the stack, then added the veneer... but I could more easily have made the bottom piece of the stack from solid cherry, in this case, and beaded it on by router table. I made these aprons first, veneered them and then assembled the table, including legs (which are attached via large pegged M&T). The rear apron is solid wood and straight, the side ones are curved (using stacked method) and the front one is solid and straight (a hidden full height drawer). The veneers for the sides where cut from the same board as the drawer front, so they are matched FWIW.
It was very easy to smooth out the 'stack' after glue-up using my Ridgid oscillating spindle/belt sander.

[alex grams]

I thought about the skirt in regards to the leg arrangement. With doing 4 legs along the perimeter of the skirt i could have 4 90degree curves instead of 2 180 degree curves to make a solid 360. I think given this will be my first shot at curve work, 4 legs to split the curve would be a good idea to make it an easier first attempt.

More to think about!

[Doug Shepard]

In that case, I'll throw my suggestions into the ring.
1) By all means make a full size drawing on ply or MDF and use it to lay out your joinery and transfer marks from it to your legs/apron.
2) This is the one I debated mentioning. Make your glue-ups double width. That way if you do get any springback, once you cut into 2 pieces, it's at least symetrical rather than potentially a slightly different curve for each piece. I used 1/8" strips between male/female forms for a 7/8" thick apron and got very little if any springback but I think a healthy dose of paranoia to make sure it's at least symetrical is probably a good thing. You will also need some extra width as well to allow for jointing the edges with the glue squeezeout.

[Victor Stearns]

Alex, I agree with Rick on using a brick lay up to build up the apron and cover with veneer. In the case of the attached picture we used a 1/16" thick cherry and attached it with Hide glue. The apron on the table is a 17" radius and is made up of poplar stacked in 5-layers
Victor

[Rick Thom]

I thought about the skirt in regards to the leg arrangement. With doing 4 legs along the perimeter of the skirt i could have 4 90degree curves instead of 2 180 degree curves to make a solid 360. I think given this will be my first shot at curve work, 4 legs to split the curve would be a good idea to make it an easier first attempt.

More to think about!
Yes, to all the above; that's why we do samples first to prove the concept and get the technique down pat.
Depending on the radius of the table you may be joining to the legs at something less than 90 degrees so you have to take that into account for both the exact angle of the cuts on the apron and also the legs, as well as the actual method of making the cuts. I was fortunate to be making my connections at 90 degrees. For the curved aprons I offset the tenons to the inside of the apron so I only had to slice off the outside cheek. This I could do easily with my BS, or using either my RT or TS where I could support the apron at precisely a 90 deg angle with a simple shop-made jig and the dado blade or router bit could do it's work. I used quite deep (1") and 1/2" thick tenons and pegged them from the inside when I was done. That's too big a bite to take safely out of a leg for the mortice IMHO (if you are using a router to cut your mortices), so best to sneak up on it with a smaller bit and progressively deeper passes and then switch to larger bit and repeat. I have several "victims" that I keep around as reminders of this.
Good luck with whichever method you choose; lots of ways to skin a cat.

[alex grams]

Thanks again for all of the help.

Doug
I had already anticipated making the glue-ups double width and then ripping them on the BS.

Rick/Victor. I think the stack method will be the simplest, but i still have to detail out how i want to make the bottom of the skirt solid wood so i can route a beading on the bottom of it.

Either way, everyone has been very helpful, and any and all advice is appreciated.