Other Saw Stops?

[jason lambert]

I know saw stop was going to make a contractor saw. Anyone have any idea if this will happen? I want a sawstop but I don't think I really have room for one. Also I don't use a table saw very often, mainly because my contractor dewalt saw scares me so I rathor cut with my festool system. So if sawstop make a smaller one it might be the ticket, or I may get something else.

[M. A. Espinoza]

Take it with grain of salt but they hope to be shipping in March.

They're close enough they allowed me a glance at an owner's manual as I'm on the preorder list.

Its a contractor saw all the way, complete with motor hanging off the back and twin tubes connecting the trunnions.

But it has a riving knife and the brake, of course.

I'm keeping my order active for now, but disappointed they didn't eliminate the hanging motor and twin tubes. Both of those things make the saw susceptible to twisting when doing bevels. Seems like lot of work to design a tool from the ground up and still leave some inherent weaknesses.

[Andrew Close]

i just got a brochure for the SawStop 10" Contractor saw today from a friend who went to a WW'ing club meeting last night and apparently they were all talking about the upcoming contractor saw.

here are the details on the brochure:
SawStop award winning blade braking system
Improved dust collection system
True European style riving knife
Low profile blade guard
Cast iron table top with powder coated steel extension wings
1-3/4 hp motor

Optional Features Include:
Heavy duty mobile base
Professional T-Glide fence system
36" or 52" extension table
Out-feed table

Competitively priced from around $1499.00
Estimated availability for Authorized Dealer purchase in Spring/Summer 2008

[Simon Dupay]

To me that seems to be a lot of money for a not even half way decent saw(steel wings & a cheap fence?) when for the same money you can get a cabinet saw.

[M. A. Espinoza]

Competitively priced from around $1499.00
Estimated availability for Authorized Dealer purchase in Spring/Summer 2008

$1500!

No way. They did say at one point they would honor the preorder pricing for anyone that kept their order active but that can't be the price.

Although the cabinet saw does run about twice what you would pay for a non-brake saw.

I'll have to e-mail and confirm that price, I'll would still like to give it a go but no way for $1500. That could include shipping but its still pretty steep for the brake with a bare-bones contractor saw wrapped around it.

[jason lambert]

I aggree it is not that portable and not that small for a contractor saw also looks fradgule. I have to waite till it hits the stores and ck it out to see if it is worth it or if I have to make the big one fit somehow.

http://www.sawstop.com/products-contractor-saw.htm

Intresting they also look like they are working on a bandsaw :)

[M. A. Espinoza]

They are honoring their original price for preorders, just got the e-mail.

But they didn't mention what it would retail for if you weren't on the list.

1500 sounds very high, I can't see too many taking a contractor saw with a brake over a cabinet saw with a riving knife (new Jet Xacta).

Could be 1500 was with all the options, just have to wait and see.

[Art Mann]

1500 sounds very high, I can't see too many taking a contractor saw with a brake over a cabinet saw with a riving knife (new Jet Xacta).


I think you would be surprised what people are willing to pay. The Sawstop cabinet saw costs nearly twice as much as a comparable saw from Powermatic or Delta, and three times as much as a comparable Grizzly. They are apparently selling a lot of them. The contractor saw will probably appeal to mostly hobby types who are too frightened to use a conventional cabinet saw but can't afford a big Sawstop. There are a lot of those folks too.

[Sean Kinn]

wow, my bt3100 POS almost looks beefier than that thing. I can see the raised lettering on the extension wings becoming very irritating as well. Folks that are likely to buy contractor saws are often short on space, and value additional flat surfaces in their shop.

[Brodie Brickey]

The cost is high. I was one of the originals on the waiting list. I waited 2 years before I bit the bullet and bought a cabinet saw. A 2 months later, they were finally available. I passed.

I think that while you can still get hurt bad with a regular saw, if you have a saw with a riving knife, you're a lot closer to safe than not. The other manufacturers (PM & Jet so far) are now offering what is really the important safety feature of the SawStop. If the wood doesn't bind the blade, you're even less likely to somehow feed your hand into the saw.

Regards,


Brodie

[Allan Froehlich]

I'll have to e-mail and confirm that price, I'll would still like to give it a go but no way for $1500. That could include shipping but its still pretty steep for the brake with a bare-bones contractor saw wrapped around it.

Just remember the cost of going to the hospital for reattaching a finger. This is the cheap route.

[jason lambert]

ok I have to ask can someone PM the pre order price?

[Art Mann]

Just remember the cost of going to the hospital for reattaching a finger. This is the cheap route.


Statements like this always carry with them the unstated assumption that a person will inevitably hurt himself if he uses a tablesaw enough. For persons who believe that, I think it is imperative that they get a Sawstop or stop using a tablesaw. Beliefs like that always seem to have a way of coming true. However, for those of us who have been practicing safe tablesaw techniques for 20 or 30 years without incident, I would say the statistics are on our side. I don't buy flight insurance before getting on a commercial airline either.

[Mark Engel]

Just remember the cost of going to the hospital for reattaching a finger. This is the cheap route.

If my only 2 choices were to buy an overpriced contractors saw or cut off my own fingers, I think I would just take up golf. Hope I don't get hit in the head with someones errant tee shot.

I would have go with choice number 3, respect all of your tools and always be very careful.

[Brandon Shew]

I think you would be surprised what people are willing to pay. The Sawstop cabinet saw costs nearly twice as much as a comparable saw from Powermatic or Delta, and three times as much as a comparable Grizzly. They are apparently selling a lot of them. The contractor saw will probably appeal to mostly hobby types who are too frightened to use a conventional cabinet saw but can't afford a big Sawstop. There are a lot of those folks too.

They are selling a lot of them, but I'd bet that it's not so much for the safety. It's unfortunate, but we live in such a litigious society that school systems (shop class), employers, etc. are worried about what might happen if they don't have one. I can see a lawsuit coming when someone cuts themselves on a Unisaw or the like in one of those environments and sues because they didn't have a Sawstop. Most of our local school systems have gone with Sawstops in shop class. The guy at the local Woodcraft indicated that they use a Sawstop for their classes (in lieu of their previous PM) for this reason.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to start another Sawstop pros and cons thread. The safety is a nice thing and if price was no object for me, I'd definitely have one too. It's a nice and well built saw w/o the safety feature. Can you put a price tag on safety? Apparently the answer is yes and it isn't cheap. It's a little too expensive for me and I'd rather have a nice cabinet saw for the $1500.

[Vic Damone]

Jason, We have similar situations. Currently I have an OK contractor saw but that motor hanging out the back really increases the saws footprint and I have very limited space. I've also had to attach a ten inch intermediate outfeed table to clear the motor at 45 degrees and to act as a bridge to a portable outfeed bench.

Considering their inherently poor dust management, generally lighter design and larger space requirements, the only advantage I can justify for any contractor saw is there lighter weight as it pertains to portability.

SawStop's Mr. Gass, has eluded to a hybrid saw in the works unfortunately being a small manufacturer it takes a great deal more time to bring a new product to market.


SawStop products are more expensive similar to BMW automobiles, Sony televisions, Felder and Festool woodworking tools. I'd like to take a moment and thank all those of you who have taken the time to single out and alert us as to just how much SawStops products cost. My heart goes out to all those who purchased SawStops cabinet saws who now know they've overpaid but can't get rid of them because...

Vic

[M. A. Espinoza]

SawStop products are more expensive similar to BMW automobiles, Sony televisions, Felder and Festool woodworking tools. I'd like to take a moment and thank all those of you who have taken the time to single out and alert us as to just how much SawStops products cost. My heart goes out to all those who purchased SawStops cabinet saws who now know they've overpaid but can't get rid of them because...

Vic

The SS Cab Saw is a premium tool even without the brake by all accounts.

Take the brake away from the contractor and you have just another contractor. It does have the riving knife but now so does Grizzly, and with an inboard/fixed motor.

I'm going to be a Sawstop owner so I'm not against the company. I really have my doubts as to whether the saw will be stable enough in use for my needs, but it might.

And the brake is enough of plus to take a chance on a product that I am suspicious of to begin with.

I do woodworking for a living so its a balancing act of quality of tool vs. unique safety feature. It looks like I'll be losing my health insurance so the cost/consequences of an accident becomes a very different event.

In the end the whole value of the Sawstop is a personal evaluation. My choice essentially comes down to used Unisaw vs. Sawstop Contractor. Huge difference in performance but I've been around enough to know sometimes things happen even if you are careful.

[Tim Marks]

"It will be the best contractor saw made"

And it has stamped steel extension wings, no built-in mobile base, and has a cheap fence (t-square fence is optional)?

That is quite a stretch by the marketing folks.

[Vic Damone]

The SS Cab Saw is a premium tool even without the brake by all accounts.

Take the brake away from the contractor and you have just another contractor. It does have the riving knife but now so does Grizzly, and with an inboard/fixed motor.

I'm going to be a Sawstop owner so I'm not against the company. I really have my doubts as to whether the saw will be stable enough in use for my needs, but it might.

And the brake is enough of plus to take a chance on a product that I am suspicious of to begin with.

I do woodworking for a living so its a balancing act of quality of tool vs. unique safety feature. It looks like I'll be losing my health insurance so the cost/consequences of an accident becomes a very different event.

In the end the whole value of the Sawstop is a personal evaluation. My choice essentially comes down to used Unisaw vs. Sawstop Contractor. Huge difference in performance but I've been around enough to know sometimes things happen even if you are careful.


I'm with you right down the line!

Sorry, I've always had a problem conveying my sarcasm in writing. If there was a point I was trying to make it was that I haven't heard of anyone selling their SawStop for any reason. These SawStop prairie dogs who can't stop ragging on this company every time the name pops up in a chat room have become simply pathetic. Don't like it? Don't buy it!

I'm also planning on purchasing one of their products but I dislike contractor saws in general for the reasons I mentioned above. SawStop's 360 degree, rests on the floor mobile base may make the cabinet saw very doable for me. I need good mobility and it will use less space than my contractor saw.

[M. A. Espinoza]

I'm with you right down the line!

Sorry, I've always had a problem conveying my sarcasm in writing. If there was a point I was trying to make it was that I haven't heard of anyone selling their SawStop for any reason. These SawStop prairie dogs who can't stop ragging on this company every time the name pops up in a chat room have become simply pathetic. Don't like it? Don't buy it!

I'm also planning on purchasing one of their products but I dislike contractor saws in general for the reasons I mentioned above. SawStop's 360 degree, rests on the floor mobile base may make the cabinet saw very doable for me. I need good mobility and it will use less space than my contractor saw.

No worries. I'm trying to keep the thread from becoming another Sawstop argument.

All I was trying to get at is that the Cab Saw gives a premium tool (PM 66 quality) with unique feature of the brake. The contractor doesn't seem to offer anything over competitors other than the brake.

Guess I'm just a little disappointed in the engineering of the contractor. I had really hoped it would be the equivalent of the Jet Proshop but with a brake. Which I think would do the work I need it to do without having to be babysat like my contractor.

But the only was I'll know for sure is to try it, since they are honoring the preorder pricing at least I should get my money back if I decide I have to sell it for the dependability of a sturdier design.

[John Michael]

Your paying the big dollars so they can recuperate the cost of the dies and stamping press for those fancy SawStop extension wings. ;)

[keith micinski]

Any one willing to pay 1500 for that saw please contact me because I happen to have large tracts of land for sale in Florida for next to nothing. On a serious note there is a rally good chance after having bought that saw you could call the cops and have the retailer arrested for stealing from you and get your money back. Never mind, I read the fine print and it says for 1500 you get the saw and Norm Abrahm comes to your house and then builds what ever you need for you.

[Greg Pavlov]

............
SawStop's Mr. Gass, has eluded to a hybrid saw in the works unfortunately being a small manufacturer it takes a great deal more time to bring a new product to market. .........
Vic
I doubt that the hybrid saw will appear for a long time because it would cannibalize the cabinet saw's sales. As someone pointed out, a lot of those cabinet saws are going into schools (tho I disagree that fear of lawsuits is always the main reason, I believe that a lot of people really *do* care about kids' safety...) and I'm sure that a lot of those schools would have preferred to buy hybrids if they were available, because of the high cost of the cabinet model.

[Dave Bureau]

Do any of you have their own business? Do any of you pay workmans comp insurance? Well, I do. I pay about $30,000 a year for comp. I had a guy fall 3 rungs high from a ladder and broke his arm. Cost the insurance co over 50,000 before it was all done. My rates went up 10,000 a year for 3 years. I cant imagine what a hand full of fingers would cost. I think the extra paid for the brake is VERY cheap insurance. Employees dont use my saw for work, but if i needed 5 saws for my employees use, they would all have a brake.

[keith micinski]

I think I would rather hire an entire new crew and spend thousands on training then by that saw for 1500.00 . Also unless you are in the insurance business basing decisions in life on how much litigation you are going to be avoiding has to be miserable and not worth living.

[Dave Hale]

All, there's an option in VB when you click on a poster's (person's) name in a post to get to their Public Profile. In the Public Profile, you can add the person to your 'Ignore' list.
I just did that. Feel better already. :rolleyes:

[Ron Williams]

Yes I am in business and am very concerned about job safety I have a job we are currently doing that has over 60,000 Lf of qtr sawn white oak going in it not counting the hardwood floors. Today I decided to buy a cabinet Sawstop and put it on that job for the protection of the workers. To much exposure, plus after the job it goes to my personal shop and I will move my Unisaw out.
I worry about safety and litigation and Life is Great!

[Dave Bureau]

I think I would rather hire an entire new crew and spend thousands on training then by that saw for 1500.00 . Also unless you are in the insurance business basing decisions in life on how much litigation you are going to be avoiding has to be miserable and not worth living.
So what you are saying is that only stupid people will cut the fingers off? Some people just dont get it.

[keith micinski]

No, I am saying living your life under the assumption you are going to cut your finger off is stupid. Actually in a way I am saying you would have to try really hard to cut your finger off with a table saw. It is a fixed blade in a fixed range of motion. There is a small area you have to keep your hands out of that people have designed multiple tools for a couple of bucks that allow you to keep your hands out of. For that matter a stick will work. I have changed my mind you do have to be stupid to cut your finger off with a table saw, because the only way you can do it is if you use the saw improperly with the wrong tools. Now, hand held power tools that have an infinite number of ranges, motions and settings are a whole other animal. Hopefully that saw comes with a back brace because wood is heavy to lift and you could get sued for that. Also I hope it has some sort of grounding system and built in surge protection because you could get electrocuted pretty easily.

[Dave Bureau]

I'm going to let this one go................. Because like I said, some people just don't get it.

[M. A. Espinoza]

I have changed my mind you do have to be stupid to cut your finger off with a table saw, because the only way you can do it is if you use the saw improperly with the wrong tools.

Keith,

Worked in many shops? Spent a lot of time at the saw? I've worked in a few and although I've never had a serious accident on the table saw I have seen it happen. Doesn't mean it WILL but it might.

Maybe you were joking but I've never run into a woodworker in a shop that thought every accident happened because the operator was "stupid". Sometimes it is true but not universally.

The accidents I've seen didn't involve the known "cowboys" in the shops. In one case the most experienced guy (20+ years and well respected by the shop guys) cut off his thumb because of a momentary lapse. This was in a shop that REQUIRED guards in place, but not all cuts can be done with them installed.

I don't know if you were trolling with the "only stupid people have accidents on the table saw" but that is a stretch.

At my last job we didn't use any guards or splitters at all, and this is pretty much the norm in production shops. Doesn't mean I'm afraid to work or that I'm a genius because I haven't had an accident.

I would say if you do this for a living that its impossible to be 100 percent ALL the time. Fatigue, distraction due to personal issue, or illness; even boredom (woodworking isn't always a swashbuckling adventure) can take your focus away for that millisecond it takes for something to go wrong. Hopefully when that occurs nothing happens.

Good safety practices are necessary, the saw brake is just another layer.

[Tim Marks]

It seems strange to me that a commercial shop is willing to spend an extra $2k per saw, but isn't willing to enforce safety standards such as guards and splitters.

The CPSC analysis of TS injuries in 2001 states that 50-78% (28% said "unknown") of TS involved did not have a blade guard, and 57-90% (33% said "unknown") did not have a splitter. 86% were blade contact, 14% were due to hits by ejected wood. Seems like shops should enforce bladeguards as well as buy SS. It is funny that most pictures of the SS show it in it's "natural" mode: no blade guard installed.

http://www.cpsc.gov/LIBRARY/FOIA/FOIA03/os/powersaw.pdf

Reading sawstop save stories, the following just has gotta make me wonder:


He was talking with a friend next to a saw that was running but no material was being cut. His friend said something that upset him and he slapped his hand down on the table. Although he meant to hit the table, his hand came straight down on top of the spinning blade
No blade guard? Saw running that was not in use? This cabinet shop needs more then sawstop to make it safe. I guess they hope OSHA doesn't read their injury reports very carefully, cause it seems like this sort of report would make them come down like a ton of bricks.

http://www.sawstop.com/why-sawstop-testimonials.htm

[Scott Rollins]

I have the Sawstop...I trust it (it saved my miter guage!). I always use the factory supplied guard on all cuts that will allow it. If the guard is not in place the riving knife is. I always use a push stick (vermont american ) and magnetic featherboards when possible. These extra safety measures take only seconds to use. I have seen the aftermath of a tablesaw injury. I do not want that to happen to me. When /if they ever come out with a SCMS or bandsaw it will be in my shop.

BTW I drive with my seat belt on too. You can never be too safe.