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Andrew Nemeth
01-09-2008, 12:10 AM
I'm looking to purchase a MIG setup soon and I have most of the general specs picked out. 220v 180amp, compatibility to weld stainless and aluminum (with an additional spool gun). Looks like Lincoln, Miller, Hobart are all reputable brands. The biggest problem I am having is finding quality used welders in this category.

Any ideas for someone living in Central, Ohio? I read CL religiosly but I have foiund nother there yet. Most of the stuff on Ebay is new stuff, there are a few good deals but ... before I bit the bullet... do any of you have experience finding and purchasing light duty metal fabrication machinery?

Any help would be greatly appreciated,
-Andrew

Matt Meiser
01-09-2008, 8:16 AM
Here they are showing up on Craigslist fairly regularly as people sell stuff to move or make their house payments. :mad:

I'd stop in to some local welding suppliers and talk to them about what you are looking for. They may know of used equipment for sale or have a bulletin board where people post stuff.

Another way to save a few $$ on new--there is a welding supply cooperative that sells a rebadged line of Hobart welders under the Weldmark (http://www.weldmark.com) name. Other than decals they appear to be identical. I have a Hobart Handler 180 and my brother has the Weldmark equivalent of the Handler 140. We are both very happy with them.

Al Willits
01-09-2008, 8:36 AM
Buddy got a pretty good deal on a demo from his welding supply house.

Seems everywhere else has tons of used in whatever your looking for, also CL will have 20 or 30 cheaper the minute you buy one...:)

Went though that looking for a drum sander, finally bought new.

Good luck.

Al

Jim Becker
01-09-2008, 9:20 AM
I also recommend stopping by your local welding supplier. They typically carry several of the brands you mention and may, as others have indicated, have lines on used equipment, either directly, through consignment or referral.

Greg Cole
01-09-2008, 9:42 AM
I deal with a local welding shop for our machine shop stuff at the day job. Find one in your area and stop in.... usually one or 2 guys in the rental-service area that are full of helpful info. I picked up a Lincoln (dunno the model # off hand) tig & stick "buzz box" for small stuff, works on 110 & 220.... not enough umph for a mig torch though. I even got a small argon bottle for $0.00 from the guys at the weld supply house when I bought the welder. My weld shop also sells used stuff.....
Don't need to weld much around the house per say, but I was fascinated with melting 2 pieces of metal together as a kid so it was something I wanted to know how to do.

Cheers.
Greg

Cliff Rohrabacher
01-09-2008, 9:50 AM
Miller and Hobart make nice Square Wave machines.

For Aluminum you need square wave and a L-O-T of power to get the instant heat required. If the system hasn't got enough power you end up melting too much aliumimum sometimes melting the whole piece or badly warping it.

Miller invented square wave and I have heard that Hobart's system isn't true square wave but I can't say.

Matt Meiser
01-09-2008, 10:23 AM
I didn't really pay attention to what you want to weld. Aluminum is probably best done with a TIG machine. Yes, you can get a spool gun for a MIG, but most people are going to recommend TIG. Sometimes manuevering the MIG gun into somewhere to weld can be a pain so I'd imagine that the spool gun would be a Royal Pain. I've never even thought about stainless, but Hobart says it can be MIG welded. Each material requires a different shielding gas--C25 (mix of 75% CO2 and 25% Argon) or CO2 for steel, 100% Argon for Aluminum, Trimix (Helium, Argon, CO2) for Stainless. That means you also need to buy three tanks, or constantly exchange your tank. If you are only going to have minimal use on Aluminum and Stainless you could use the tiny tanks to save a little on buying the tanks.

For the money, you'd spend on the spool gun and extra tank, I'd think hard about putting that away for an eventual purchase of a TIG unit once you've mastered welding steel with the MIG.

I've never TIG welded, only MIG, but from what I understand it is harder to learn to TIG weld well. MIG is pretty easy to learn. Hobart calls the skill level for MIG "low" while TIG is "high".

Greg Cole
01-09-2008, 10:55 AM
Gee I learned to TIG weld on stainless steels, so I guess once again I learn the hard lessons first...:rolleyes:


Greg

Andrew Nemeth
01-09-2008, 11:15 AM
Thanks for all the ideas. I guess I'll have to find a welding supply in my area. I have actually taken a couple of welding classes, they were geared towards artists but we did oxy-acetylene, stick, MIG, and TIG. I have spent quite a bit of time TIG welding stainless and it is blast. From a utility side I think the MIG might be the way to go. However, TIG welding would sure be nice for furniture. I think Matt might be right, buy a MIG welder for steel (maybe even a 120v 140amp unit) without any aluminum accessories and start saving up for a TIG unit. I have put off buying any metal working tools because of the slippery slope that is sure to follow.

Thanks again,
Andrew

Matt Meiser
01-09-2008, 11:34 AM
Yep, you'll need a whole bunch of new tools!

For cutting, I bought a Harbor Freight 4x6 bandsaw which works just fine with a good quality blade. You'll need at least 1, probably more angle grinders. I'm up to 3 4.5" grinders--1 good Dewalt for grinding and wire wheels, 1 harbor freight with a flap disk, 1 Harbor Freight with a grinding wheel to use when the wire cup is on the Dewalt. The Harbor Freight grinders work fine other than being a little underpowered for heavy grinding and wire cup use and are about $18 on sale. I also have a 7"/9" angle grinder that I use less frequently. Then I bought a Harbor Freight universal bender and a pipe bender, which will work in a pinch as a tubing bender if you pack the tube with sand. Plus I have bought numerous vice-grip type clamps, markng tools, a plasma cutter, etc.

Then theres the projects: welder cart, welding table, etc.

Al Willits
01-09-2008, 11:40 AM
A couple of ways to look at this, you can weld aluminum with a MIG, a bit hard on the nozzle though, and you don't have the control as with TIG, if I was doing specialty welding I'd go TIG, actually I go both, but the TIG will cover more ground.

Bit more of a learning curve as it involves using the foot to control heat, but that's what practice is for.

If your only doing furniture and things with it, I'd prob go TIG, and stay away from welding that $1500 piece of machined aluminum your buddy wants ya to weld. :D

I wouldn't waste my time on a 110v MIG though, even the ones with both heat and feed controls usually fall short, look for a basic 220v one imho.

Al

Greg Cole
01-09-2008, 12:34 PM
To pick up on Al's comment on 110V vs 220V is the duty cycle of the welder. My little "buzz box" is ok on 110V for most light applications, heavier gauge material or long weld sessions will hand cuff to waiting on the machine to cool down. With my Lincoln, the duty cycle about doubles with voltage.... but I'm talking about tig not mig anyway.:rolleyes:
Also I learned on the strike to arc style tig.... that's a PITA in many situations. Also if you do plan on doing alot of welding (or use different thickness materials), having the heat control via foot pedal is a nice feature too.... once again I learned on a welder with good old fashioned dials & strike to arc ala the old fashioned way...LOL

Greg

Randy Denby
01-10-2008, 12:40 AM
A couple of ways to look at this, you can weld aluminum with a MIG, a bit hard on the nozzle though, and you don't have the control as with TIG, if I was doing specialty welding I'd go TIG, actually I go both, but the TIG will cover more ground.

Bit more of a learning curve as it involves using the foot to control heat, but that's what practice is for.

If your only doing furniture and things with it, I'd prob go TIG, and stay away from welding that $1500 piece of machined aluminum your buddy wants ya to weld. :D

I wouldn't waste my time on a 110v MIG though, even the ones with both heat and feed controls usually fall short, look for a basic 220v one imho.

Al

Al, could you elaborate on your dissatisfaction of the 110v migs? I have a Millermatic 135 that has been an oustanding welder. Did I just get lucky?...or maybe I dont know what I'm missing?

David G Baker
01-10-2008, 8:38 AM
I have a Hobart 110v unit and wish that I had spent the money on a 220v model with a higher amperage. The 110v models are fine for light to moderate use and thinner metals. If serious heavy duty welding is needed the 220v will be a better choice.
I also have a couple AC stick welders and wish I had spent the bucks for an AC/DC setup.
Like wood working, you can cut wood with a cheap Harbor Freight bench-top saw but things are a little easier and smoother with a cabinet saw.

Al Willits
01-10-2008, 9:35 AM
"""""""""
Al, could you elaborate on your dissatisfaction of the 110v migs? I have a Millermatic 135 that has been an oustanding welder. Did I just get lucky?...or maybe I dont know what I'm missing?
"""""""

Sure, remember this is all person opinion and if you like your 110v welder, more power to ya...:)

First off, they are short on power, if your gonna buy a welder imho it should do at least 1/4" steel, haven't seen a 110 do that well, secondly duty cycle, may not mean much if you weld a inch or two, but it does when you get a bit more serious (I used to weld for a living and do things like build trailers and such) also most have voltage adjustments in steps, (1-4 ) not good imho, I like to be able to fine tune my welders, adjusting gas pressure will do it somewhat, but not enough for me.

I have yet to see a 110 unit do aluminum of any thickness well, although I'd rather use a TIG for that anyway, so not a big deal I guess.

Also life span seems to be a bit shorter, but that could be people running them past rated duty cycle and over heating them.

I look for a welder that will do whatever I need it to, the 110 units just don't have the power, I'd say 80% of failed welds are from not enough heat, and the 220 units will give ya more of it when needed.

So, if I was to recommend a welder to someone, a 220v would be it, just more options with it.

Miller makes a nice welder and if your happy with what it does for you, that's what counts, I'd bet I do a bigger variety of stuff than you and that where the difference comes in.
You evidently are using the welder in the range its capable of, so I doubt your missing anything..:)

Al

Matt Meiser
01-10-2008, 10:56 AM
Al, you bring up a really good point. You really need to buy a welder based on what you want to be able to do with it, not what you want to spend on it. I bought a 220V unit because I planned to be welding tractor-related stuff. My brother bought a 110 because he will be welding light duty stuff like furniture and bicycle stuff (he desgins bikes for a living.) Most homeowner and automotive type stuff is going to be light, farm and ranch is going to get into heavier stuff.

For me, only having the step adjustment for voltage as opposed to it being continously variable is nice because I can follow the chart on the welder and make nice welds right away. If I used it every day and developed a real feel for things, the continuous would be nice, but since I don't I could never remember where I had it set last time I did something similar. I also would have paid a lot more for the welder.

Al Willits
01-10-2008, 12:03 PM
When people ask me what to buy I ask them what is the most welder your gonna need, I've said I don't care for 110 units but like Matt says, if all your gonna do is thin stuff, then by all means go fer it..

But...usually most end up wanting something with a little more amps to them, people generally get better at welding then start to branch out, and find they should have bought more welder.

Couple of things to think about, aluminum...if your not doing it on a regular basis, be careful.
I've seen expensive or highly machined parts ruined by people who thought they were welders, if the weld needs to be good, have someone else do it.
My general thought is, think steel if your a part timer, I qualified to weld pipelines in Alaska years ago (navy certification if I remember right) and I weld on a somewhat regular basis, but some one shows up with a machined aluminum part, I send them to a buddy who welds for a living.

Eliminating aluminum helps make the decision easier I think, TIG is slower but generally prettier and less spatter, Mig is faster and prob easier to learn, TIG works for more types of metals better also I think.

I won't even mention the exotics, there a whole different ballgame.

I went with MIG as I do little if any specialized welding, and I like the convenience of MIG.

Kinda Ford and Chevy thing I think.


Al...who will not have 3 cups of coffee in a row again..ever:)

Randy Denby
01-10-2008, 12:45 PM
Thanks Al,

(for answering my question.....not limiting coffee input :) )

Being in the HVAC business, and brazing for what seems like 2 lifetimes, MIG came really easy for me. And your right, I have done mostly light gauge stuff....rarely getting above 1/4 " thick. But , my sheetmetal guy, says that once I try a Miller 210 , I'll throw my 135 away. I just thought he was full of it as that lil 135 has been great. And now I read what ya'll are saying, makes me want to try one......Oh well, its only money.
I dont think I'll throw the 135 away tho....its really handy making brackets (unistrut for linesets) and such for units on a roof,walk-in coolers/freezers etc.

Al Willits
01-10-2008, 1:27 PM
You go try one of them bigger Millers, bring your checkbook....:D

Al

David G Baker
01-10-2008, 1:37 PM
Al,
Great advice.
Ya wanna go for coffee? :p

Greg Cole
01-10-2008, 1:48 PM
Boils down to about any tool purchase... buy what you need for a specific project or buy one that you'll be able to expand your horizons on. Decide what you want from said tool and make a short list of ones to look at-try-buy.
Sort of like the 14" BS vs 17" or bench top TS vs contractor vs cabinet saw..... we can all say what we think you need, but only you can really make up your mind.
The big Miller here at the day job was umm...err... like $8K I think a couple years ago, it's a freaking tank but she burns hot n deep! I'll be using someone elses check book if I need one for other than the day job! :rolleyes:
The one application that forced us to buy it is where we have to pre-heat to 400* before welding to ensure a good solid DEEP burn (welding an axle journal on an 8" shaft for a sliding vane pump that pumps at about 40,000 lbs an hour or so via 10" pipe up to 500 feet).

Cheers.

Greg

Matt Meiser
01-11-2008, 10:14 PM
Andrew, look what's new on Columbus Craigslist today: http://columbus.craigslist.org/tls/536134784.html

No idea if its a good deal since I didn't price Miller when I got mine.

Rob Will
01-11-2008, 11:40 PM
I didn't really pay attention to what you want to weld. Aluminum is probably best done with a TIG machine. Yes, you can get a spool gun for a MIG, but most people are going to recommend TIG. Sometimes manuevering the MIG gun into somewhere to weld can be a pain so I'd imagine that the spool gun would be a Royal Pain. I've never even thought about stainless, but Hobart says it can be MIG welded. Each material requires a different shielding gas--C25 (mix of 75% CO2 and 25% Argon) or CO2 for steel, 100% Argon for Aluminum, Trimix (Helium, Argon, CO2) for Stainless. That means you also need to buy three tanks, or constantly exchange your tank. If you are only going to have minimal use on Aluminum and Stainless you could use the tiny tanks to save a little on buying the tanks.

For the money, you'd spend on the spool gun and extra tank, I'd think hard about putting that away for an eventual purchase of a TIG unit once you've mastered welding steel with the MIG.

I've never TIG welded, only MIG, but from what I understand it is harder to learn to TIG weld well. MIG is pretty easy to learn. Hobart calls the skill level for MIG "low" while TIG is "high".

Matt knows what he is talking about....do whatever he says.
I would also suggest getting a new MIG welder and forget about welding ALuminum until you are ready to go TIG. As for me, I can't walk and chew gum at the same time so TIG has never worked out. MIG is easy....provided the metal is clean and warm.

Rob

Matt Meiser
01-12-2008, 12:03 AM
Matt knows what he is talking about

I don't know about that.

Al Willits
01-12-2008, 10:01 AM
""""""""""
Each material requires a different shielding gas--C25 (mix of 75% CO2 and 25% Argon) or CO2 for steel, 100% Argon for Aluminum, Trimix (Helium, Argon, CO2) for Stainless.
""""""""

My welding supplier says you can use 75/25 on both stainless and regular steel, been doing it for many years and its worked so far.
Much cheaper than buying two tanks..:)

Personally if I was gonna buy anything I'd get a gas set up, stay away from specialty metals including alum and cast iron and just weld steel.
The torches will give more options than the other units, you'll be able to braze with it, heat up rusted nuts and bolts, burn ants as they run across your garage floor, heat coffee, cut steel, heat steel to bend, and fill your garage full of soot...all in the same day..:)

Plus they're portable so you can take them over to your neighbors house and burn ants in his garage too...

Al..who thinks peta is on their way...:D

David G Baker
01-12-2008, 10:34 AM
Al,
You left out concrete firecrackers with shrapnel included at no extra charge.
I like gas as well but had my set up stolen a few years back and haven't replaced the tanks, "yet".

Al Willits
01-12-2008, 11:01 AM
Al,
You left out concrete firecrackers with shrapnel included at no extra charge.
I like gas as well but had my set up stolen a few years back and haven't replaced the tanks, "yet".


I'd forgot about wet concrete and heat...:D

Al...who's new book is coming out soon..."How to have fun with a torch and deal with third degree burns", I'm sure you all will want a copy.

David G Baker
01-12-2008, 11:07 AM
I don't know about that.
Matt,
I have read quite a few of your informational posts and have found you to be a very reliable source for good advice both on SMC and TBN. I agree with Rob.

Brad Schmid
01-13-2008, 12:16 AM
Andrew,
You might also keep an eye out on the "buy,sell,or trade" forum on the Hobart site. I sometimes see equipment located in Ohio posted there.

BTW - There was an HH140 posted back in mid-November that was in Stow Ohio. Don't know if it sold or not. Right now there's a good deal on a new HH210, but it's located in Dallas and it says he won't ship... One of my MIGs is an HH210 and I can say I like it alot.

Cheers
Brad

Charles Wiggins
01-13-2008, 8:55 AM
Andrew,

I have a Google account, and I set up Google Reader to monitor the Craig's List tool listings for my area and just below the border in SC. I see used metal fab. equipment posted almost every day - lots of welders - mostly pro level equipment - in the thousand $ range. Seems a lot of shops in SC are closing up.

We also have a classified publication in this area called IWANNA - lots of stuff goes there too. You may want to look around in the groceries and news stands in your area and see if there's something similar.