Question for Verizon FiOS Users

[Jeffrey Makiel]

I heard from my local phone utility repairman today (as he fixed my old telephone line) that FiOS is on its way to my neighborhood. Maybe by March! :)

The old coax cable in my house is considered substandard these days. And my existing phone line is the standard wire strand copper.

I heard installation takes a while. That makes me nervous. What do they do to install FiOS for phone, TV and internet? Do they install new cables throughout my house for all phones, TVs and internet ports? Is there a central interface box?

Your experience is appreciated.

Jeff :)

[Jim Becker]

With FiOS, your home will be serviced by a fiber optic cable to an Optical Network Terminator (ONT) that will be install on (or in) your house. You need to provide access to a power outlet within 50' of the ONT location for the power supply and battery backup (for voice backup only)...which is usually not an issue.

In current installations, VZ will run a piece of RG6 coax from the OTN to the Actiontec router that will be located in your home. That device serves as both your router/firewall as well as a "MOCA" bridge (IP to coax bridge) for the on-screen guide for the TV service. The guide is provided via IP as is VOD; the regular TV content is supplied in the same way via that coax that your present cable provider does it. At least for now. (In the future, the TV content will likely shift to IP) RG6 coax is preferred for distribution to your TV locations. If you have older RG59, it will work, but not particularly well, especially for HD. It's up to you if you want to replace it and it's on your nickel to do so. Currently in this area, you can get basic analog stations without a set top box, but within a year, you'll need a box for every TV or a cable card capability as they are eliminating all analog signal for TV and going all digital. The Pittsburgh PA are is already all-digital. But they also now have a new very small box ideal for places like the kitchen where HD, VOD and the guide are not required. Very small. HD on FiOS is outstanding and they will be adding quite a few stations this year once some network upgrades are completed and outside of the set top box, they don't charge extra for it. Standard Definition (SD) is also reported to be as good or much better than typical traditional cable providers.

Voice is provided from the OTN by connecting directly to your existing phone wires in the house. There isn't much reason to replace them unless they are not working. The connection is merely moved from your current NID (Network Interface Demark) to the ONT. The copper wire from the pole, if overhead, is generally removed. If underground it's just disconnected. Some folks have been successful in keeping the copper around, but they generally have voice services from an alternative provider on that copper. If VZ has you current phone service, it's most likely that the copper will go away.

Internet access from the Actiontec router can be wired or wireless. Wired generally provides better performance, but wireless is certainly an option. If wired is desired, an appropriate Cat5 or better cable run to the PC or PCs is/are required. Your nickel beyond the first and generally VZ doesn't fish wires. (Some installers might, but it's because they are being nice) Some folks prefer to use their own routers and you "can" as long as you keep the Actiontec on the network in bridge mode so it can provide the necessary MOCA function for the TV guide.

And after saying all that...I'm very jealous. My township has been holding up FiOS for close to two years now due to greed...the fiber's on my poles, but not lit. D'oh!

[Jeffrey Makiel]

Jim,
Thanks for taking the time for the comprehensive reply.

I remember your previous posts about your municipality getting in the way of progress. That's too bad.

It sounds like I'll be fishing new coax cable in my house. The stuff I have is nearly 20 years old and has been previously identified as one of the problems with poor reception of high definition.

Currently, I'm paying $190/month for phone, internet and TV with HD. That doesn't include any premium channels and unlimited long distance. The FiOS package will be around $100/month. But, as you said, everybody loves the new signal quality.

Thanks again, Jeff :)

[Curt Harms]

I saw in the local paper yesterday that the township manager where Jim lives is in need of a new employment. Perhaps there's hope after all.:) I'm sure he's not the whole problem but it's a start.

[Jim Becker]

I saw in the local paper yesterday that the township manager where Jim lives is in need of a new employment. Perhaps there's hope after all.:) I'm sure he's not the whole problem but it's a start.

Really? Ray is gone? Which paper?

[Chris Padilla]

My newest Consumer Reports had a little write-up on satellite, cable, FiOS, and the like. I need to check and see if FiOS is available around me...could be interesting.

[Bill Lantry]

Fiber to my house. Best thing since sliced bread. I shouldn't gloat... but when you get it, you'll love it too... ;)

Thanks,

Bill

[Jim Becker]

My newest Consumer Reports had a little write-up on satellite, cable, FiOS, and the like. I need to check and see if FiOS is available around me...could be interesting.

If Verizon is your local phone provider, it may be available. If another carrier services your area as the LEC...your probably never going to get FiOS. The big three don't cross territories on things like this.

AT&T is doing their U-Verse product, but it's fiber to the node and then VDSL to your home with a cap of 6mb downstream for the forseable future...which is scary considering they are trying to put TV including HDTV via IPTV down that same pipe....

[Dan Bussiere]

I am the manager of a local telecom and we do fiber as well. In my professional opinion, all I can say is:

:)What Jim said!;)

Don't think I could add anything to that even with the manual open!:o

Dan

[Jim Becker]

What can I say...I'm in the telcom business and sell and teach the same. FiOS is a pet passion of mine. Hopefully, one of these days I'll be able to get it. Oy!

[Mike Henderson]

Jim - why is RG59 not recommended for FiOS? Is it because the FiOS system uses frequencies above maybe 750MHz? The standard cable system operates up to maybe 750MHz and some to 1GHz. Does RG59 have too much attenuation at the higher frequencies compared to RG6?

Or what is the reason for using RG6 instead of RG59?

Mike

[John Shuk]

I am the manager of a local telecom and we do fiber as well. In my professional opinion, all I can say is:

:)What Jim said!;)

Don't think I could add anything to that even with the manual open!:o

Dan

I build FIOS outside plant and jim just blows me away with his knowledge of the product.
It far surpasses mine.

[Jason Roehl]

Jim - why is RG59 not recommended for FiOS? Is it because the FiOS system uses frequencies above maybe 750MHz? The standard cable system operates up to maybe 750MHz and some to 1GHz. Does RG59 have too much attenuation at the higher frequencies compared to RG6?

Or what is the reason for using RG6 instead of RG59?

Mike

I believe at least part of the reason is the shielding involved. RG59 has very little (1 layer of braided?), whereas RG6 has 4 layers of foil, I think. That, and one of the most important items signal-wise is the connectors--RG6 uses the latest-and-greatest compression F-connectors instead of the old standby crimp-on and screw-on F-connectors. If you have large signal-loss problems, 99 times out of 100, the problem is at a connector somewhere. So, I think that the answer to your question is yes, the RG59 has too much attenuation at high frequencies, though I don't recall how much and what frequencies the cable systems use for HD, program guides and internet.

[Jim Becker]

All cable TV providers are recommending RG6 now and have for some time. Even the splitters need to be rated for a minimum of 1ghz. RG59 will work "fine" for SD analog, but becomes less effective with both SD digital and particularly with HD. I recently re-cabled the original footprint of our home from the old RG59 to new RG6...and the difference is visible to the naked eye, even on the lowly 13" bargain basement TV on the wall in the kitchen that serves to provide Curious George during breakfast!

[Jason Roehl]

See, you can always trust the man in the yellow hat...:D

[Mike Henderson]

All cable TV providers are recommending RG6 now and have for some time. Even the splitters need to be rated for a minimum of 1ghz. RG59 will work "fine" for SD analog, but becomes less effective with both SD digital and particularly with HD. I recently re-cabled the original footprint of our home from the old RG59 to new RG6...and the difference is visible to the naked eye, even on the lowly 13" bargain basement TV on the wall in the kitchen that serves to provide Curious George during breakfast!
I was wondering if you knew why there's a recommendation to go to RG6. Is it because there's too much attenuation towards 1GHz on the RG59?

In other words, do you know why RG59 "...becomes less effective with both SD digital and particularly with HD"? If the problem is frequency related attenuation, it would depend upon where the SD digital and HD are located in the spectrum - high frequency (bad) or mid frequency (OK).

Does FiOS use a lot of spectrum - more than 1GHz? Just wondering - you seem to be well informed in this area.

Mike

[added note] My question is not all that important - I'm just interested in the reason if you know the answer. If not, no problem.

[Matt Meiser]

If Verizon is your local phone provider, it may be available. If another carrier services your area as the LEC...your probably never going to get FiOS. The big three don't cross territories on things like this.

Unless you are in a region that they could give a ____ about. Luckily we have a local company that is going head to head with Verizon in a few local townships. Hopefully they'll make it here soon. They've had a fiber network since the late 90's.

[Jeffrey Makiel]

Another FiOS question regarding internet hookup....

1. Does the ONT have a wireless router built into it for those that have difficulty running new CAT5 cabling? Or, is it similar to consumer wireless routers where the router must be hardwired to at least one computer?

2. Is it Cat 5, Cat 5e or Cat 6 or other?

-Jeff :)

[Chris Padilla]

I was wondering if you knew why there's a recommendation to go to RG6. Is it because there's too much attenuation towards 1GHz on the RG59?

In other words, do you know why RG59 "...becomes less effective with both SD digital and particularly with HD"? If the problem is frequency related attenuation, it would depend upon where the SD digital and HD are located in the spectrum - high frequency (bad) or mid frequency (OK).

Does FiOS use a lot of spectrum - more than 1GHz? Just wondering - you seem to be well informed in this area.

Mike

[added note] My question is not all that important - I'm just interested in the reason if you know the answer. If not, no problem.

Mike,

Yes, RG6 is designed for higher-bandwidth signaling schemes. Satellites typically work in the 1 - 1.4 GHz realm. Over short runs of cable, you probably won't notice much difference but as cable lengths gets longer, RG6 will hold more signal than RG59.

Also, RG6 is quad (dual, IMO, really) shielded and will therefore show more immunity to noise than RG59.

RG59 is thinner and more flexible than RG6 so it can be easier to work with but that is its only benefit, I think.

Fiber is more noise immune and has even less attenuation per unit length compared to copper so that is its benefit. Drawbacks of fiber are expense. It simply costs more to deploy, costs more to fix, costs more to to terminate or put connectors on. CAT5x cabling is dirt cheap compared to fiber.

[John Shuk]

Another FiOS question regarding internet hookup....

1. Does the ONT have a wireless router built into it for those that have difficulty running new CAT5 cabling? Or, is it similar to consumer wireless routers where the router must be hardwired to at least one computer?

2. Is it Cat 5, Cat 5e or Cat 6 or other?

-Jeff :)

The ONT doesn't have a wireless router built in. It is fed by coax
not CAT5. You don't need to have it hardwired to a computer.

[Jim Becker]

The ONT doesn't have a wireless router built in. It is fed by coax
not CAT5. You don't need to have it hardwired to a computer.

To clarify this further:
Fiber from the street terminates on the ONT. The ONT serves as the interface between the fiber plant and the services being provided. It takes the digital signals traveling over the fiber (three wavelengths in the current BPON plant) and breaks them out into voice, video (CATV), video (IP) and Internet (IP). The latter two share the same wavelengths.
In most current installations, RG6 coax is run between the ONT and the Actiontec router provided by Verizon for FiOS. A second cable provides power to the ONT from within your home were a power supply and small backup battery are located during the install. (The backup battery is strictly for temporary voice services if your home loses power)
The Actiontec router provides:
wireless Internet access by any devices you choose to use via wireless
wired Internet access via Cat5 or better connections to any devices you want to have wired network connectivity (there are several RJ45 ports for this purpose)
MOCA bridge services to provide IP connectivity to any set-top boxes via Coax for the TV service for the guide and for video on demand For folks who prefer to use their own router for Internet connectivity, they can do so by putting the Actiontec in bridge mode and topologically behind their router for the guide and VOD services. (or try to find a Motorola NIM100 MOCA bridge on EBay or somewhere...) In order to do it this, way, the subscriber must get VZ to switch the connection from the ONT from coax to Cat5 for the IP services. Alternatively, one can use the Actiontec as the main router and put their own wireless access point behind that router for (sometimes) improved wireless performance or to utilize newer, emerging wireless standards such as the Pre-N devices that are becoming more and more popular.

One other thing many folks are confused about...the voice services provided with FiOS by VZ are NOT voice over IP. It's standard POTS (Plain Old Telephone Service) but provided via fiber from your local central office, rather than via copper wires to your home. The ONT acts as the interface between the fiber network and the copper wire in your home for voice. You can, however, user VoIP services via your FiOS Internet services if you choose to do so.
----

Mike, it's both shielding as well as frequencies that make RG6 the requirement/suggestion for both digital cable TV services and especially HDTV. These services require higher speeds, protection from more interference and generally higher quality cable plant to perform well.