How to check out a used saw?

[Roland Coppens]

I've stumbled across a used Ridgid TS3650 that's described as > 1 year old, lightly used and in excellent condition. The seller's come down to $500 and I think I'll give it a look. For reference, here's a link to HD's site for details on the TS3650:
http://www.homedepot.ca/webapp/wcs/s...P_PartNu mber (http://www.homedepot.ca/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CatalogSearchResultView?D=940548&Ntt=940548&catalogId=10051&langId=-15&storeId=10051&Dx=mode+matchallpartial&Ntx=mode+matchall&recN=113383%204294967240&N=0&Ntk=P_PartNumber)

So, two questions:
1. With a current retail of $799 (went up $100 Jan 1/07 it seems) is $500 a reasonable price for this saw - assuming it's in the shape described, did in fact experience the level of service described, and is complete (see below)?

2. I'm, of course, going to want to crawl under the hood and check it out before committing to purchase. In terms of things to check, what would you look at? I thought these seemed reasonable:
- ensure blade guard and splitter are present
- check if miter guage is included
- check if regular and dado throat plates are included
- check if blade wrench is included
- visually inspect the trunnions for wear/damage
- raise & lower the blade through its full range
- angle the blade through its full range
- test the mobile base for proper operation
- test the ripfence's lock at front of saw and back of saw
- check the tabletop for flatness (I'll bring my 50" straightedge)
- check the arbor for runout (I'll bring my dial indicator & stand)
- ask the seller to run a cut

Would these things seem reasonable to you if I was to roll up and kick the tires of a saw you were selling? Is there anything you'd suggest adding to this list? Lastly, if it turns out there are things that are deficient, or the saw isn't in the condition described, what would you say would be reasonable amounts to propose the price be decreased by?


----------
Thanks,
Roland

[keith micinski]

Thank god I don't live in Canada. That saw is only 550.00 here brand new.

[Jon Bonham]

To only save $300 or, in this case, 30sih%, I'd just as soon buy a new one.

[Roland Coppens]

Thank god I don't live in Canada. That saw is only 550.00 here brand new.
Maybe a better way to think of it is that the seller is asking 61.% of the current retail. Looking at it that way, any advice or thoughts as to the OP?

[Pete Bradley]

$500 is a lot of coin for a used contractor saw. I'd leave the dial indicator and about $200 of that at home.

Pete

[Roland Coppens]

$500 is a lot of coin for a used contractor saw. I'd leave the dial indicator and about $200 of that at home.
Fair enough - now do you mean five hundred of your dollars or five hundred of mine?

Remember, Canadian and US dollars only just recently reached parity, following a decades-long trend of 60, 70, 80 US cents on the Canadian dollar. Retailers keep telling us that current merchandise in the distribution channel was purchased before the rise in the dollar and that prices between the US and Canada will begin to normalize. Haven't seen any of that myself and I think the Canadian consumer is being taken advantage of by the Canadian retailer. But, that's neither here nor there.

Getting back to the matter at hand, suppose full retail on this saw in your market is $550 as with keith micinski, then the question becomes 'is $337 for this used contractor's saw a reasonable price?' Put that way, what would you say?

[Jon Bonham]

Fair enough - now do you mean five hundred of your dollars or five hundred of mine?

Remember, Canadian and US dollars only just recently reached parity, following a decades-long trend of 60, 70, 80 US cents on the Canadian dollar. Retailers keep telling us that current merchandise in the distribution channel was purchased before the rise in the dollar and that prices between the US and Canada will begin to normalize. Haven't seen any of that myself and I think the Canadian consumer is being taken advantage of by the Canadian retailer. But, that's neither here nor there.

Getting back to the matter at hand, suppose full retail on this saw in your market is $550 as with keith micinski, then the question becomes 'is $337 for this used contractor's saw a reasonable price?' Put that way, what would you say?
I would say no. I can pick up 20 used contractor saws on craigslist for $200 or less. Hell, there's a 3 year old Delta Unisaw and 50" Bies with a Delta D/C on craigslist for $1000. I called the guy today and talked him down to $900.

[Roland Coppens]

I would say no. I can pick up 20 used contractor saws on craigslist for $200 or less. Hell, there's a 3 year old Delta Unisaw and 50" Bies with a Delta D/C on craigslist for $1000. I called the guy today and talked him down to $900.
Thanks, Jon. So, converting back the message I'm seeing is that I should expect to pay around $325 or so for a contractor saw like this - that's useful to know.

Out of curiosity, what approach do you generally use to talk sellers like the Unisaw fellow down?

[Jon Bonham]

Thanks, Jon. So, converting back the message I'm seeing is that I should expect to pay around $325 or so for a contractor saw like this - that's useful to know.

Out of curiosity, what approach do you generally use to talk sellers like the Unisaw fellow down?

Well, he's in Canoga Park, which is about 120 miles away from me, even though we're both in SoCal. I told him I was going to have to rent a trailer and drive 250 miles roundtrip, which would cost me about $60 in gas. I also told him I wasn't super interested in the D/C. I'm guessing he didn't have a lot of bites at $1000.

I think you're applying to much math to this. A Unisaw is going to hold it's value better and there's not as many of them for sale.

[M. A. Espinoza]

Fair enough - now do you mean five hundred of your dollars or five hundred of mine?

Getting back to the matter at hand, suppose full retail on this saw in your market is $550 as with keith micinski, then the question becomes 'is $337 for this used contractor's saw a reasonable price?' Put that way, what would you say?

Thats not too bad for that saw. But I would still negotiate. I know I see the Rigid saw used for $300 from time to time.

People seem to like that saw for a contractor type saw. Many seem to feel that anything less than a cabinet saw is useless but contractor saws have served many a weekend warrior just fine for many years.

What about the Craftex Hybrid? Pretty solid design and a few advantages over a contractor for 765.

But I have to say $500 sounds like a lot for a used contractor saw knowing that the US/CAN dollar is about equal now. However maybe I just can't get my head around the fact that tools might be spendier up north.

[Jon Bonham]

I guess it really would depend on your particular market. Supply and demand.

[Roland Coppens]

What about the Craftex Hybrid? Pretty solid design and a few advantages over a contractor for 765.
Good thought. I'd spotted that one and it had me wondering too. I was a little surprised you'd be familiar with Craftex - I didn't think they'd made their way as far south as Kansas.

[Roland Coppens]

I guess it really would depend on your particular market. Supply and demand.
I imagine that plays into it along the way. I'll occasionally take a look at the San Diego Craigslist and see what's on the block down there - I have a friend who lives there (he's my contact with the 'ShopSmith world'). It's amazing to see just how many tools there are for sale. Just stunning. Take a look at the Calgary and Edmonton CL sites just for comparison with your area just as an illustrative point.

[Jon Bonham]

I imagine that plays into it along the way. I'll occasionally take a look at the San Diego Craigslist and see what's on the block down there - I have a friend who lives there (he's my contact with the 'ShopSmith world'). It's amazing to see just how many tools there are for sale. Just stunning. Take a look at the Calgary and Edmonton CL sites just for comparison with your area just as an illustrative point.

Where I live, I can use the Orange Country, LA and San Diego areas. That give me a base of about 15 million people.

Holy crap, I just checked and I found 4 saws total. Buy the damn saw. :D

[M. A. Espinoza]

Good thought. I'd spotted that one and it had me wondering too. I was a little surprised you'd be familiar with Craftex - I didn't think they'd made their way as far south as Kansas.

No, I've never seen one in person.

But my InterWeb Tubes reach all the way up to Canada. :D

Actually found Busy Bee when I was looking for a new switch. The Craftex looks like a General International clone. Saw in another forum someone recommended the Delta Hybrid for $100 more. The fence on the Delta is better and possibly a better motor but thats just a guess.

Thats how it is with power tools, the price just keeps inching up.

I still think a contractor saw is fine. That being said there are some issues that design can have, mostly due to the weight of the motor hanging off the back when you do a bevel cut. So if you can avoid that design within the budget it can save some hassle.

But if you don't see yourself doing much more than 90 degree work the contractor will do fine.

Good luck.

[josh bjork]

Canadian, I don't know how the exchange rate factors in but it seems like if the price of the saw just went up, it doesn't really help much. If a new one is really $800, 500 starts to look more attractive. I'd check what you mentioned. And keep in mind that a new one has a warranty and that one might not. Are they transferrable? It is worth something $$. It is nice if you can check the thing out without getting too excited. I usually can't. If I can pull that off, I always ask them what the least it would take to get the thing. Sometimes people have a number in mind already and it saves you a little bit. Or if the deal is good you just pay cash and run. If you can get a hybrid for just a little more, that would start to sound good too.

[Chuck Lenz]

Actually the best hybrids that I know of are Craftsman and Steel City, they both have the cabinet mounted trunions. I'm not sure if anyone else does. If your looking for a Contractors saw the Delta 36-979 at Lowes with a T2 fence and I think you got a good saw for the money. A used saw is typically worth about half assumeing everything looks good and no more than normal use. Parts can break a deal in a hurry if you need to buy a motor down the road or have to buy a better fence. No warrantees. Probably the best way to check out a used saw is take it to a service center, preferably one that is familiar with the saw. Unless you know what the factory runout on the bearings are I'm not sure what good checking it will do. Most people will tell you it's only been used on Sundays, even if it looks to have been used as a boat anchor. It all depends on what you can afford.

[Roland Coppens]

Where I live, I can use the Orange Country, LA and San Diego areas. That give me a base of about 15 million people.

That's just a little less than half of the population of Canada. Food for thought.


Holy crap, I just checked and I found 4 saws total. Buy the damn saw. :D
:D

[Roland Coppens]

The Craftex looks like a General International clone.
Busy Bee is owned by Grizzly I believe and the Craftex line is clones of their Grizzly counterparts.


That being said there are some issues that design can have, mostly due to the weight of the motor hanging off the back when you do a bevel cut.
Now this isn't something I've come across before. Would you mind telling me more?

[M. A. Espinoza]

Busy Bee is owned by Grizzly I believe and the Craftex line is clones of their Grizzly counterparts.

Truth be told, I haven't really looked over the Craftex. So it could be a clone of the Grizzly; at first glance it looked just like the GI and Sunhill hybrids.


Now this isn't something I've come across before. Would you mind telling me more?

Well to clarify I was talking about the contractor saws. They have the motors hanging off the back and tension the belt with the weight of the motor. When tilted for a bevel cut all that weight it supported by the back arbor. This can and will twist the carriage, it may or may not return to alignment when you go back to square.

Most contractors and some hybrids (Sears, Delta, and Steel City) use two rods to connect the front and rear trunnions instead of a one piece casting. These can become misaligned and it is a real pain to realign if it happens.

If you don't do many bevels then the carriage twist is not much of an issue.

Some mention cabinet mounted trunnions as a plus and other than making initial alignment of table to blade it is not much of an issue. Some older cabinet saws used table mounted trunnions and were stable.

I would recommend a hybrid with a good fence. A lot of good work has been done with contractor saws, it just now seems that the hybrid has addressed the shortcomings of the contractor design, which has essentially been replaced by jobsite saws.

Good luck.