TS blade warp.

[keith micinski]

I just got my TS aligner and got everything squared away. There is one slight problem. My blade is a freud 80t thin kerf blade and it is warped about .004 to .005 in one spot. Is this acceptable? If not what are the tolerances on a blade supposed to be. Also after getting everything aligned it seems like I am getting a little bit of blade drag on the backside of my blade and am getting a little burning unless I take the piece threw the cut fairly quick. I checked everything and it all is still good and the cut is really nice and square.

[keith micinski]

Any one? I don't really know what to search under for the maximum blade warpage allowed.

[Al Willits]

Maybe email Freud, but I think when I asked them, they said .003 was max. maybe? :)

They reolied fairly quick and I've always had good service from them, I'd go to them for a reply

Al

[Lee Schierer]

Are you sure it is the blade? Mark the arbor and rotate the blade 90 degrees from its present orientation and see if the warpage stays in the same spot relative to the blade or to the mark on the arbor? If the warpage stays with the mark on the arbor, then your blade is okay.

There is a Freud representative, Charles McCracken, that posts fairly often that might be able to help Charles McCracken (http://sawmillcreek.org/member.php?u=6126).
I had a blade I damaged a number of years ago and they replaced it free. If yours was bad out of the box, I'm sure they will work something out with you.

[keith micinski]

Ya I rotated the blade To make sure it was the blade. Unfortunately the blade is at least 2 years old. If it is supposed to be .003 then .005 is probably getting real close to needing to be replaced.

[Pete Bradley]

Put away the instruments for a minute. What results do you get from the blade?

Pete

[Tom Henderson2]

I would think that a few thousandths of warp would be straightened out by centrifugal force when spinning, but I don't know for sure.

Check with Freud, and let us know what they say!

[Mike Cutler]

Put away the instruments for a minute. What results do you get from the blade?

Pete

Bingo! This is the acid test.

[Art Mann]

Before discarding the blade, I would give it a good cleaning to remove heat producing resin deposits. If that doesn't do the trick, then get it sharpened if it is economically practical and try it again. I don't know what the Freud standard is for new blades, but I think it unlikely that 0.005" of runout is causing your burning problem.

[Tom Walz]

Find a pro saw shop that does hammering and have them look at it.

Not sure if you mean there is a bump in the metal 0.003” high or a ripple in the edge. In any case a single deviation of 0,003” should be easy to fix.

The following are pretty common on top end saws. Many top end saws do better than this. Side clearance variation (greatest difference between any one tip and any other tip) is 0.0005” (half a thousandth of an inch.) Total run out of 0.001” (one thousandth of an inch).

Before I get in trouble let me add that I think Freud is really good. Yesterday I was talking to a guy whose company makes what may be the best industrial saws in the world. He was bragging about the deal he got on a 3 pack of Freud 10” blades and how well they cut. So guys who really know saws like Freud.

Saw blades are much easier to warp than many folks realize. It is still common, when installing a blade, to take a piece of wood run it across the table perpendicular to the blade and bury a tooth in the wood. Then you bear down on the nut as hard as you can with all the force going into the wood. This can warp a blade. Overheating can warp a blade. Dropping a blade can warp it. Electro - etching a logo in a blade can warp it as can punching in a number.

If you ever get a chance, take a look at a saw blade analysis machine. They take blades and spin them while they videotape them and analyze them that that way. They also have frequency analyzers.

Tom

[keith micinski]

well I just put my Freud glue line rip blade on and it had the same .004 to .005 runout on the blade as the cut off did. I reset my mitre fence and so am not to worried about the burning because it is reallyinumal if at all. My main concern is that if I am dealing with warped blades I don't know what kind of problems I am going to have. It seems like .003 is standard from what I am reading.

[keith micinski]

I am not measuring the teeth I am measuring around the circumfrence of the blade just below the teeth and overall there is .0045 runout on the blade itself.

[Charles McCracken]

Keith,

0.003" total is the spec for the blade so when you add in the saw's runout 0.005" is not unusual or unreasonable. You didn't mention what you were cutting when you experienced the burning.

[Dave Falkenstein]

well I just put my Freud glue line rip blade on and it had the same .004 to .005 runout on the blade as the cut off did...

Are you SURE that your arbor is not the source of the runout? Having essentially the same runout on two blades makes me think it is the arbor and not the blades.

[keith micinski]

if it was the arbor when I rotated the blade it wouldn't maintain the warped spot on the blade. When I crosscut a piece with the mitre gauge the bottom corner farthest away from me seems to be catchingon the blade some how.

[Dave Falkenstein]

if it was the arbor when I rotated the blade it wouldn't maintain the warped spot on the blade...

Sorry, but that statement does not make sense to me. If you have an arbor with runout, it would show up on the blade in the same way as a blade with runout. That's exactly why you must eliminate the arbor first. If the arbor has runout, all blades will behave as if the blade has runout.

[Charles McCracken]

if it was the arbor when I rotated the blade it wouldn't maintain the warped spot on the blade. When I crosscut a piece with the mitre gauge the bottom corner farthest away from me seems to be catchingon the blade some how.

Keith,

The arbor has to have some runout and rotating the blade relative to it will cause the total runout value to change. I believe the rubbing at the end of the cut is the result of alignment or technique. Even if there was 0.050" of runout the result would be a wider kerf (kinda like a wobble dado) not that the tips would drag at the end of the cut. Without checking the blade for myself I can't say that there is absolutely nothing wrong with it but I can say that the situation you describe above is not caused by the blade.

[Tom Walz]

Is it a coated blade.

Sometimes the blade is good but the coating is a bit irregular.

[Lee Schierer]

If the blade has .005 runout in one spot, then it is possible that there is something stuck on teh side of the blade where the arbor washers rest on it. a .001 piece of debris on the center of hte blade would certainly create an apparent out of flat condition of at least .005 near the theeth. Take your blades and scrub the area where the washer sets with a bit of 0000 grade steel wool or scotchbrite pad and recheck your run out.

[keith micinski]

If the arbor had run out of more then .001 it would show up at the same spot every time around. By rotating the blade that is warped and marking it at the warped spot the run out manifests itself at the same spot every time. If it wasn't the blade the run out would no follow the mark on the blade no matter where you place it. I have tested the arbor and there is virtually no run out at all. The blade is definitely warped. All I was wondering is how much is acceptable for a good blade. I think the dragging is being caused by the throat plate that came with the saw it is very poorly made and has a dip towards the blade in it. I am going to get a zero clearance tomorrow and see if that helps.