Thin Vs Thick Kerf

[Joe Vee]

:confused:

Hello All,

I understand the difference between thin and thick kerfs. My confusion is in regards to thin Kerf blades twisting, having to make precise measurements down to a 64th of an inch. I have a 1 1/2 HP Ridgid TS3650 table saw. I ordered a Freud LU83R010 10-Inch 50 Tooth ATB Thin Kerf Combination Saw Blade for this saw. Would I be better off with a thick kerf blade? Opinions are so varied between thin vs thick kerf blades it is mind boggling. I do some woodworking as a hobby. Thanks for the help.


Joe

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi Joe, I have a General 650 saw so power isn't an issue and therefore I don't use thin kerf blades.

That said a friend bought me one as a gift, and I wasn't happy with it, noisier than the standard industrial blades I normally buy, and the cut wasn't as smooth.

I didn't have an accuracy problems, aside from the ripping tape being a bit out due to a thinner blade, I just didn't like the noise and cut.

There are two common reasons for purchasing a narrow kerf blade;

1) very valuable wood that is being ripped into many small strips, obviously if you can get one more strip out of a blank, it's important if you're making 10,000 strips.

2) not enough horsepower to rip heavy stock with a standard blade

Since you bought a combination blade, it's not that suitable for ripping heavy stock, so why worry about horsepower and kerf issues?

Use the blade for croscutting, and sheet goods, with ripping of stock 6/4 or thinner also. If you need to rip heavier solid stock, purchase a dedicated rip blade with somewhere around 24 teeth.

I wouldn't purchase the thin kerf blade for your saw unless you really needed it.

The final choice however is yours, if you're happy with it, keep it.

Regards, Rod.

P.S. a set of blade stabilizers can help control flutter on a thin kerf blade.

[Mack Cameron]

:confused:

Hello All,

I understand the difference between thin and thick kerfs. My confusion is in regards to thin Kerf blades twisting, having to make precise measurements down to a 64th of an inch. I have a 1 1/2 HP Ridgid TS3650 table saw. I ordered a Freud LU83R010 10-Inch 50 Tooth ATB Thin Kerf Combination Saw Blade for this saw. Would I be better off with a thick kerf blade? [quote]Opinions are so varied between thin vs thick kerf blades it is mind boggling. Hi Joe; I'm sure whatever I tell you someone will come along and tell you the opposite. Personally, I like Freud's TK blades and use them fairly extensively. I have never had one twist as some say happens. I use hard woods such as Ash, Maple, Cherry, Walnut, Honey Locust, Purple Heart etc. etc .etc. I have a couple of Ridge Carbide's TS 2000, & Forrest's WW I & II and Iike them very much as well.

Get yourself a TS 2000 or Forrest's WW I. I think your best teacher will be experience.

Other's mileage and opinion will be much different than mine, I'm sure!

Forgot to mention; I use 5" stabilizers on all my blades.

[David Duke]

Joe, I think that the decision on whether to use thin kerf vs thick on your TS the decision would normally come down to if the saw having enough HP to handle the thick kerf easily. If you have used the thick kerf in the past and have not had power issues I would continue for two main reasons as you stated the possible issue if deflection plus it is easier to calculate material loss due to the blade thickness. On the other hand if your saw seems to be struggling with a sharp blade on hard stock, using a thin kerf should help you out.

On a miter saw I use the thin kerf mainly to minimize material lost in the cut.

[Lee Schierer]

Maybe the Freud rep will chime in here, but I doubt that you'll have any problems with your thin kerf Freud blade with regard to flutter. Freud blades have all sorts of technology in them to dampen vibration. Blade stablizers are in my opinion a gimmick to sell people more hardware and do little to help a blade. I have two sets that I inheirited and never use either one, but always run a thin kerf blade for ripping. The worst thing a little flutter can do is leave tooth marks on the sawn edge, which are either jointed or sanded out anyway. Thin kerf blades were made for lower Hp saws to be able to cut thicker stock without bogging because they have about 25-30% less tooth area doing the cutting. The less tooth area removing wood, the less horsepower needed to keep the blade turning at speed.

For pristine cross cuts use a 60+ tooth blade. For ripping use a 40 tooth blade. A combination blade is, well, a compromise and will give you sort of the best of both worlds.

A well tuned table saw can all but eliminate most cutting problems.

[Tim Malyszko]

I have a 1 1/2 HP Ridgid TS3650 table saw
I too have that saw so I wanted to give you an owner's perspective... I always use a 24 tooth thin kerf Freud Blade when doing any initial rips. Then, once I get the boards ripped, jointed and planed, I switch to my Freud 30 tooth full kerf glue line rip blade for final sizing and have had no issue with the saw bogging down on 4/4 and thinner boards.

The 30 tooth, full kerf blade will rip softer 6/4 and thicker lumber but the motor bogs down considerably when doing so; therefore, I almost always use my thin kerf blade when ripping thicker material. I can forget about ripping just about anything greater than 4/4 using my higher tooth combo blades.

Overall, the combination of the 3 blades for me handles all of my woodworking needs. Someday, I will replace the saw with a 3 HP cabinet saw, but the Frued 50 tooth full kerf Combo Blade, Freud 30 tooth full kerf glue line rip blade and the Freud 24 tooth thin kerf blade does a great job for now.
Good luck.

[Mike Cutler]

:confused:

Hello All,

I understand the difference between thin and thick kerfs. My confusion is in regards to thin Kerf blades twisting, having to make precise measurements down to a 64th of an inch. I have a 1 1/2 HP Ridgid TS3650 table saw. I ordered a Freud LU83R010 10-Inch 50 Tooth ATB Thin Kerf Combination Saw Blade for this saw. Would I be better off with a thick kerf blade? Opinions are so varied between thin vs thick kerf blades it is mind boggling. I do some woodworking as a hobby. Thanks for the help.


Joe

Joe.

First off. Welcome to Sawmill Creek.

There is nothing wrong with that blade selection. It's a very nice blade, and should perform well for you.
I would consider getting a dedicated rip blade though. Ripping generates a lot of heat, and you need to be able to clear the waste from the blade.

I have a 1 1/2 hp jet tablesaw,and a 2 hp General tablesaw. Both usually run full kerf blades, preference only, both can cut through 2"+ thick, dense tropical hardwoods on longish rips, 8-12, feet without skipping a beat. I've done it many times. I use a 24 tooth full kerf rip blade. I use CMT blades primarily. (The Freuds, are for some reason, not as available to me here as they are in other places in the country. That or I don't know where to look.)
I have thin kerfs also, and use them too. I've never really noticed a difference one way or the other though.

Once again though. Welcome to Sawmill Creek.

Mike

[Bill Jepson]

Joe,
I have several Freud blades and they produce markedly different finishes. I have a 50 or 60 thin kerf blade which works fine on plywood and I also have a thick 40 tooth glue line rip, (also Freud, but thick), which is great for long rips. These blades produce a smooth but obviously sawn finish. I have one of the Freud 80T finishing/crosscut blades, thick kerf. This blade is alternating bevel teeth. This blade produces the smoothest finish I have ever seen in the oak (red) I've been cutting. Sanding it just dulls the sheen! This thick blade seems very stable. The only drawback is that this blade has nearly zero side relief. If you don't move the workpiece through there quick it will burn the edges. I thought I was doing something wrong at first! I use these blades in my Rigid 3650. The 3650 seems a good saw for the contractors type. Once the arbor is trued up you would have to spend twice as much to get anything better IMHO.
Bill Jepson

[Ken Massingale]

I have the TS3650 also, Joe. I've been using a WWII TK for a year or so and recently picked up a Freud Fusion FK on sale. I've processed a lot of 2" plus Cherry and 2 1/2" old Heart Pine in the last few months with the TK WWII and have been pleased with it. During the last week I have been using the full kerf Fusion on the same stock. At a normal feed rate I find the FK Fusion as good as, or better than the TK WWII. I get absolutely no motor slow-down or bogging with the FK blade, even through large knots.
I wouldn't hesitate to recommend a good quality full kerf blade to any TS3650 owner.
And, Welcome
ken

[scott spencer]

Hi Joe - It's really a matter of preference, but many top manufacturers suggest a TK for saws under 3hp. I've owned and used many good examples of both kerfs on saws that were 2hp or less. I prefer the easier feedrate of a good TK and have switched to using TK's nearly exclusively, b/c I feel it gives me more control, and it reduces strain on the motor. I'm just a hobbyist too.

It's worth stressing that the quality of the blade makes more of a difference with a TK b/c they are more "prone" to flexing, but that doesn't mean that it "will". I've never had a deflection, flutter, or vibration problem with a good TK blade, but have always noticed that the feedrate was easier...I don't use a stabilizer disc but you could if necessary. The runout of your saw's arbor and the wood itself come into play too....if your arbor runs true, a good TK isn't likely to actually cause vibration issues, but it will amplify them if they exist. You'll also reduce the possibility of problems if your wood is straight and flat. Avoid cheap TK's.

The LU83 is a high quality blade that shouldn't pose a deflection issue and should give good results. Keep it clean and sharp and you should be pleased. If you end up cutting material much over 6/4", you should probably switch to a 24 or 30T ripping blade.

[Dave Falkenstein]

I owned a Craftsman contractors saw for a long time. After I discovered I needed to use a heavy gauge extension cord, I was able to switch to full kerf blades. The extension cord change was amazing to me. That relatively low-power saw performed well with full kerf blades, not bogging down under load. I prefer full kerf blades because of the tendency for thin kerf blades to flex. If your saw handles full kerf blades successfully, use them.

[Danny Thompson]

My thin kerf blade cuts so much more efficiently--less resistence, fewer slowdowns--that twist is less of an issue than with my previous thicker blade.

[Dave Falkenstein]

My thin kerf blade cuts so much more efficiently--less resistence, fewer slowdowns--that twist is less of an issue than with my previous thicker blade.

If it is easy to tell the difference between using a thin or full kerf blade, then your saw needs a thin kerf blade.

[Gary Keedwell]

If it is easy to tell the difference between using a thin or full kerf blade, then your saw needs a thin kerf blade.
I agree David, unless your blade is very worn or dirty.
Gary

[Joe Vee]

Thanks Folks for all the helpful advise. Scott, I read your saw blade review on this website. You really know a lot about saw blades for a hobbyist. I'm impressed !! Have a good one all


Joe

[John Newell]

Possible issue that would not apply in this case. If the saw has a riving knife (like the Bosch 4100), you don't want a blade that's thinner than the riving knife. Not a big issue today but as more saws with riving knives come onto the market, might become a more mainstream consideration.

[scott spencer]

Thanks Folks for all the helpful advise. Scott, I read your saw blade review on this website. You really know a lot about saw blades for a hobbyist. I'm impressed !! Have a good one all


Joe

Nah...but I wrote that right after spending the night at a Holiday Inn Express! :D

[Tom Walz]

Good saws don’t flutter until you hit a certain speed. Saw blades, from an outfit like Freud, are tensioned to be suitable for the intended use. Unless you really soup up your table saw so it runs at a lot higher rpm then was ever intended you won’t have problems with flutter. The point at which it flutters is called the saws critical speed. I have a paper someplace I can find and email if you want it.

A thin kerf saw is thinner and therefore more susceptible to twisting if it is fed wrong. Use a good fence and good feed rate and you should be fine.

As near as I can tell, using collars is matter of personal preference. If you do use them then the inside of the collars and the matching area on the saw have to be scrupulously clean and flat. If you have crud between the collar and the blade you can actually make the situation worse by using collars.

[Allan Froehlich]

Just make sure that your splitter is not too wide for a narrow kerf blade. I ran into this problem with my craftsman tablesaw.

Do you have a caliper to measure the splitter and blade?