Slippery Slope Support Society

[James Mittlefehldt]

Okay true confession time here, I figured I had it licked I am not, repeat NOT a collector. I can easily go to an antique store or garage sale and wave my hand dismissivly at planes I do not need. (except for that type 13 sweetheart no.5 for $12, but I digress.)

I have suddenly been brought up short by my attraction to saws, yes saws, not planes but saws. I was in an antique store today and saw this really cool rip saw (26 inch 6 ppi) and figured $20 was more than I wanted to pay until the store owner, who seems to have me marked, said $15 will do. Well what the heck, the saw was straight no kinks and fine toothed, for a rip saw.

On the way home I thought wait a minute I have at least six or seven rip saws, why do I need that many, maybe I need to tune them for special applications, hard wood, soft wood resawing and then it hit me, I AM A COLLECTOR, how did this happen, I try and buy only from two companies, (Shurley & Dietrich or R. H. Smith) both local to this area, (of course there was that really neat Grove and Sons from Shefield England, but once again I digress.)

The problem is as I see it the two companies I buy as mentioned above have two of the most prominent Canadian national symbols on their medallions, maybe it is patriotism, nahhhhh I am a collector.

My name is James Mittlefehldt and I am a saw a holic. (sigh)

Did I say the new saw cuts really nice without rehabbing?

[Gary Herrmann]

There is something alluring about handtools. They're like potato chips. I'm fighting the saw slide myself. I'm also fighting the brace slide. The hand drill slide, the brace bit slide, the plane slide...

I keep looking at match planes and dado planes. I need to build a saw till and a plane till. Should probably just build a large tool chest so I can store everything together. Where will I put it? Now I need a larger shop...

[Phillip Pattee]

Since you actually used the saw to cut wood, you are NOT a collector. A collector purchases a item and keeps it simply for display. A guy can own several shirts. He wears one while all the others are stored in a closet. He wears the others as the occassion requires but this does not make his a shirt collector. There, I hoped that helped. Now go out and buy another saw.

[Marcus Ward]

As long as you use the tools, it's okay. I find I am able to pass on most things that are reasonably priced if I have one already. It's when I run across the nice #4 1/2 for $12 that I can't resist. Even if I turn around and sell it to a friend or give it away, I still gotta buy it. As for support... pfffffft, push me down the slope! I like it. ;)

[Thomas Knighton]

Uh oh.

I just bought my first two old saws the other night. I'm hosed :eek:

That's just so freakin' cool!

Tom

[Mike Cutler]

Uh oh.

I just bought my first two old saws the other night. I'm hosed :eek:

That's just so freakin' cool!

Tom

Do you have any idea how many different lengths and tooth configurations Disston had to their saws??, not to mention styles :eek:

Best to start building a large capacity sawtill now.:D,;)

[Thomas Knighton]

Well, hopefully I'll be able to sneak future purchases in past the wife since I get home before she does ;)

Tom

[Mike Cutler]

Well, hopefully I'll be able to sneak future purchases in past the wife since I get home before she does ;)

Tom

Yeah, me too.;)
I got a thing for carcass and backsaws. They're uhh,,,, starting to collect around here. :eek:

[Thomas Knighton]

Back saws are on my list too...I'm so screwed! ;)

Tom

[Brian J. Williams]

I was in a very rural Montana antique store this summer. The guy has a pretty decent collection of relatively common (and not-so-common) old Stanley's. I told him I wasn't a collector and that I only used them when I was "puttering" in the shop. He asked me how many planes I had. I replied "well let's see, theres the #3's, the 4"s, the 4-1/2" and which point he cut me off and said "admit it, sonny, you're a collector".

Really, I can quit any time I want to- I just don't want to.

Brian

[Gary Herrmann]

Ooh, I don't have any duplicate planes. No two saws of the same size and tooth configuration. I do have 2 10" braces tho.

Handtools are still the best way for me to get shop time when the fam goes to sleep.

[Dave Anderson NH]

Look folks enough of this collector business. Phillip has it right and his justifi....explanation is all you need. To carry the analogy further, just like shirts, saws can get dirty with sawdust and you need to have another one ready that's clean. You can't doing your sawing with a dirty sawdust covered saw can you?

[Mike K Wenzloff]

Well, James...Alice Frampton (aka Alf and UKAlf on WoodNet) once wrote the following bit of humor--with the inevitable bite of truth.
**************

So you want to get into using old saws...?

Speaking as someone with, erm, a "few" old saws 'cos they're so cheap, I have to say DON'T DO IT!

You start with one beater rip because everyone tells you that it's easy to learn to sharpen them and large teeth are the way to start. Now I don't know how it is in your neck of the woods, but rip saws are usually in the best shape 'cos no-one was mad enough to rip saw anything by hand if they could possibly help it.

You make or buy a vice (vise, guys), you track down a source for saw files (easier for you fellas in North America), you rip open you hand jointing the teeth down (might just be me, that one... http://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/images/smiles/icon_redface.gif ), you make little blocks for rake angle as per Mr Taran's advice, you buy every saw set you see not knowing which one will work best for which tooth size. Two or three months later, you're ready to start.

So you sharpen the saw and lo', 'tis true, it's easier than it looks. Your sawing arm feels like it's going to drop off if you don't stop saying "Hey, come and look at this" and demonstrating how fast it is to everyone who comes to the house, but it's all Good. That's when the rot sets in.

You start buying up virtually every saw you see 'cos they SO DARN CHEAP. But how many rip saws are you really going to need? Exactly. So you start buying handsaws, and what the heck, the joinery saws are the ones I'm going to use most so I'll get those too, you think.

So you have a big pile of beautiful old saws - and we get some really good ones here in Blighty. You all get excited about infills, but man, the handsaws. Hand-shaped handles, none of your Disston factory stuff, split nuts 'til your eyes pop, gorgeous beech handles, sunken medallions - Kangeroos for Robert Sorby, Elephants for Tyzack, Spear & Jackson's Royal Coat of Arms.... Oh boy.

Sorry, where was I? http://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/images/smiles/eusa_shifty.gif

Oh yeah, Pile O' Saws. So you pick up the coarsest handsaw to attempt your first crosscut; sort out your fleam angle, get the right little rake angle block on the end of the correct size of file and go to work.

And you have the finest example of Cows & Calves in the Western Hemisphere. No, it's worse, it's not even that regular. Bum. Evidentally you need to reshape the teeth, so you retop the teeth and get to work.

And retop the teeth.

And again.

And again.

Meanwhile your lovely saw is getting smaller and smaller. You think of the 150 years its survived; two world wars, decimalisation, Mrs Thatcher, and you're going to kill it in a couple of hours. Why can't you do this?!

You go away and order more files to replace the ones you've used up trying to reshape the teeth and find your supplier can't get them any more. You start searching for a new source and turn your attention to the backsaws while you're waiting for the 8-10 week order delivery time.

After all, you want some backsaws to be rip, right? And you can do rip, right? You turn to a likely specimen.

For the love of Norm, who shrank these teeth?!

You go in and search out a magnifying visor via Google, and wait for delivery. A week later it comes and you start again. Except you can't see anything through it unless your nose is virtually resting on the teeth. But you persevere 'cos you can do rip teeth, right?

Oh, seems someone let the teeth on this one get in a bit of a state too. More shaping - only three times smaller scale. I'll just rest my nose here and get on with it then.

Meanwhile the LOYL (Love Of Your Life) is adding more and more items to the Tuit/Honey Do list and asking pointedly what you need all these tools for if you never use any but those little files. And incidentally what was that bill for a saw vice on the kitchen table and do you know the builder's coming in tomorrow to do the blurfl you promised to build six months ago before you bought that saw?

But you stick to it, because old saws are CHEAP and SHARPENING THEM IS EASY. Too bad no-one ever lays any stress on SHAPING THEM and occasionally COMPLETELY RECUTTING THEM. http://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/images/smiles/eusa_wall.gif

So eventually YOU GET IT, and you can shape and sharpen a back saw in under an hour without your eyes bossing. That's great. Well now you can do it naturally it'd be foolish to let all those CHEAP SAWS go unbought, right? So you buy them.

Occasionally you get out a board and a favourite plane to make a few shavings, just for old time's sake, and tell yourself you'll make something again soon. A saw till perhaps? Mebbe two...

Old CHEAP saws have started to take over your life, so everywhere you go, you talk about it. You become a saw sharpening bore. People start to shuffle away at the mere hint of a mention of fleam. Or worse - much worse - someone asks you if you'd sharpen their saw. Or saws. And yes, they were my grandfather's so there's sentimental value, you're told, just to pile on the pressure. So now you're getting parcels labelled "Saw Doctor" and having to go to the post office whenever you're not sharpening, setting, or - dear lord - reshaping - ruddy saw teeth.

The LOYL has left you and sold all your Lie-Nielsens to fund his/her therapy, you can't focus on anything further away than 10 inches, you have a permanent groove in your finger from pressing on a saw file and you're still waiting for that 8-10 week saw file order to show up.

But on the other hand, they are cheap.

[Jay Jolliffe]

Since this thread is about saws....on some old saws I've come across they had a small nub on the top at the end like a sight or something. Everyone I've asked can not come up with what it is. I thought it might be for making a nick in the wood so the blade had a place to start. Maybe someone here knows what it's for.

[James Davis]

While I was at the Woodworking Show in Baltimore this past weekend I picked up a sweatshirt that says it all.

He Who
Dies With
The Most Tools
Wins


My wife and Daughter swear this shirt was made just for me and I try to explain that I am not alone there are others.

James Davis

[Richard Kee]

Speaking of being a saw-a-holic, did you see my post in another thread?

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?p=737576#poststop

Richard

[David Tiell]

I don't use my hand tools nearly as much as I'd like, as I am usually running behind on projects and the tailed tools help to go faster, but there is something about picking up the hand tool every now and then and making a nice thin shaving, or cutting some dovetails by hand that is just so soothing and peaceful.

[Glenn Clabo]

My wife had one made for me...
He who dies with the most toys...
Is still dead.

[Thomas Knighton]

Speaking of being a saw-a-holic, did you see my post in another thread?

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?p=737576#poststop

Richard

I've been trying to ignore your post in that thread actually...out of jealousy ;)

Tom

[Brian Hale]

I also plan on making a saw till to hold all my saws but i been putting off till i buy that last saw :rolleyes:

Brian, who has 17 saws and counting.... :)

[Kevin French]

I also plan on making a saw till to hold all my saws but i been putting off till i buy that last saw :rolleyes:

Brian, who has 17 saws and counting.... :)

17 Brian that's just dissapointing, I've FOUND that many users. Now get out there and give it a better try.

We need to get the Saws/capita UP!

WHAT KIND'A SLOPE ARE YOU PEOPLE RUNNING HERE?!

[Dwain Lambrigger]

As long as you use the tools, it's okay. I find I am able to pass on most things that are reasonably priced if I have one already. It's when I run across the nice #4 1/2 for $12 that I can't resist. Even if I turn around and sell it to a friend or give it away, I still gotta buy it. As for support... pfffffft, push me down the slope! I like it. ;)

Marcus,

How can I get on the list for your next 4 1/2 find?

[Rick Whitehead]

Ok, guys, I'm in this deeper than all of you! Not only do I have more than 50 saws, I have the machines to sharpen them, too!
It started when my brother gave me a Foley model F-16 saw filer he'd bought along with a Boice-Crain table saw up in Oregon.Fortunately, it had the manual with it, or I would never have figured it out. I started playing around with it, practicing on some saw blades without handles I'd bought long ago.I had some trouble with these, since they had irregular teeth, and the Foley only likes to file regularly spaced teeth.I finally got to the point where I could file and set a saw, and then I started on the ones I had.Wow,what a difference it made! I had never really had a properly set and sharpened saw.I quickly sharpened all the saws I had (about 5-6 ) and then went looking for more.I started coll...er, accum...no, buying all the good saws I could find. Some I sharpened and used, some I'm keeping , and most just hang there waiting for me to decide what to do with them!
I bought a retoother, reasoning it would save me time, and allow me to fix my mistakes.I had to sharpen the punch, it was about as worn as it could be.I also bought a power setter, but haven't used. I'm afraid that it will give the saws too much set, and if it misses a tooth, and strikes the wrong ones, I'll be looking at retoothing!
Alf is definitely right about the whole sordid process. It is indeed a downward spiral.Is there any hope for me?
On the other hand, I've got a lot of good saws, and some of them are sharp!
Rick

[Mike K Wenzloff]

Ok, guys, I'm in this deeper than all of you! ...
Perhaps, perhaps not ;)

Remember, Alf's tale was foreshadowed by Tom Price in 1999 right here:
http://homepage.mac.com/galoot_9/saw_problem.html

:D

Mike

[James Mittlefehldt]

Since you actually used the saw to cut wood, you are NOT a collector. A collector purchases a item and keeps it simply for display. A guy can own several shirts. He wears one while all the others are stored in a closet. He wears the others as the occassion requires but this does not make his a shirt collector. There, I hoped that helped. Now go out and buy another saw.


That is right and I am not a collector, thank heavens for that. Actually one thing that is somewhat thin in the ground hereabouts is decent back saws of any type. I have two tenon saws both by R. H. Smith and very nice, one rip and one crosscut so I am okay there, but I need to find more of them now and maybe a few good crosscut saws. Alf was right good rip saws are much easier to find than crosscut.

Thanks for the support guys I knew I could count on you now to find some more.

[Thomas Knighton]

Yep...you guys are a bad influence on me. Won a tenon saw last night on that auction site. Of course, this one fullfilled a "need". Now I need a crosscut back saw. Unfortunately, between this and planes, I'm so completely and totally screwed.

Maybe divorce won't be so bad. More room for tools :D

Tom

[Rick Whitehead]

Mike,
You do indeed have me beat, hands down!
I humbly stand corrected!
Rick

[Steve Rozmiarek]

Yep...you guys are a bad influence on me. Won a tenon saw last night on that auction site. Of course, this one fullfilled a "need". Now I need a crosscut back saw. Unfortunately, between this and planes, I'm so completely and totally screwed.

Maybe divorce won't be so bad. More room for tools :D

Tom

Uh-oh, you're too late. It'll take three years, but one day, you'll notice that you now have 9 or 10 nice back saws to fill various needs. Problem is, in my case anyhow, they usually are cheaper if you just buy the whole stack. I noticed this weekend though, that apparently, a ratio of 8 assorted saws to 1 good backsaw seems to be about right. No kidding. Don't fight it, you'll need the energy to defend your wall-o-saws. Your wife will eventually decide you have no money left for alimony, because you spent it all on saws, and that the divorce just isn't worth it. I'm hoping anyway... Greetings to all BTW

[James Mittlefehldt]

My wife won't, I have never spent more than $15 on a saw to date, and those were real good ones. Besides that my wife actually bought me one at a garage, sale nice little warrented superior crosscut for .50 cents. Sigh deeper and deeper.

[Thomas Knighton]

So basically, your wife's an enabler?

That is so cool! :D

Tom

[Mark Stutz]

So basically, your wife's an enabler?

That is so cool! :D

Tom

Mine is the same way. Leaves the buying to me, but doesn't object, as long as she occasionally sees some results. She's commented to others that she always knows where I am...in the shop. Better the mistress she knows, than one she doesn't.:D:eek:

[Thomas Knighton]

Mine is the same way. Leaves the buying to me, but doesn't object, as long as she occasionally sees some results. She's commented to others that she always knows where I am...in the shop. Better the mistress she knows, than one she doesn't.:D:eek:

I'll have to remind my wife of that one when she gets bothered by me being in the shop!

[Gary Herrmann]

Mine is the same way. Leaves the buying to me, but doesn't object, as long as she occasionally sees some results. She's commented to others that she always knows where I am...in the shop. Better the mistress she knows, than one she doesn't.:D:eek:

Mark is also good at convincing other men's wives that they didn't marry a crazy man.

[Mark Stutz]

Mark is also good at convincing other men's wives that they didn't marry a crazy man.

:D:DEither that, or I've convinced her we're both crazy, and she's just too nice to say it.!:eek:;)

[Thomas Knighton]

My wife knows I'm crazy, but she knew that before the tools entered the picture ;)

Tom

[Bruce Haugen]

don't collect Unisaws!

Bruce, who is not a collector, swear to God, I'm not. I need each and every one of those planes and chisels.

[Bill Brehme]

My name is James Mittlefehldt and I am a saw a holic. (sigh)

Did I say the new saw cuts really nice without rehabbing?[/quote]

James, dont be so hard on yourself!:eek:

If you use your saws, then, you are a "functional" saw-a-holic. Just dont saw to the point of debilitation!!!:(
I consider myself a full fledged "rust-a-holic".
I go to the flea (boy, wouldn't that be cheaper than tools) market, and when I see a soda crate with something rusty sticking out of the top, my pulse races and then the tunnel vision (of course). The term "rust" covers all tools... Food and gas become optional (unless the gas is for getting me closer to more tools). I am really not exaggerating very much here.:o
I am sure I will sell off those "other" #4's, once i figure out which one I am most comfortable with (yea... )
Hey, it aint my fault I keep running into awesome deals on Disstons, Stanley planes, Swann chisels...and...whatever........
Its not your fault either James, however I am sure there more than a few Creekers with some butter crust on their faces, just pleased at what they have created.
Bill - At the bottom of the slope, already set up camp, trying to figure out how to eat chili with a pitchfork.... hot down here...

[George Sanders]

I am the first to admit I'm a toolaholic. That said, I can keep buying what I can afford when I find it. I thoroughly enjoy the rust hunt. I have had far more luck lately at garage sales than flea markets. I also enjoy cleaning, sharpening, and especially USING hand tools. I have a full shop of tailed tools but I really like the hand tools best.

[James Mittlefehldt]

It must be a geographic variation, but as I mentioned above quality back saws are thin on the ground here, and also chisels, what I see mostly is odd things that are not that old with blades I suspect have a fair bit of chromium as they are rather shiny.

Would love to find a boxed set of Witherby or Swan millwright's chisels, but that isn't likely to happen. I benefit from the general knowledge of many antique sellers who recognize Disston as a name of quality and so charge much less for R. H. Smith or Shurley & Dietrich, and those saws are at least the equal of anything Disston made.

Same with planes, Stanley planes automatically in many places go way up in perceived value because it is a name that the dealers recognize, but Ohio Tool planes which I like very much, (04 1/4, 05, 06, 07) seldom approach the prices that Stanleys do as they don't have the name on the body and many dealers think they are some sort of Stanley knock off.

Not my fault if they are too lazy to research stuff properly, though the guy I bought the saw from is a good one and he does not charge exorbitant prices just because he might get away with it. Everything he sells is based pretty much on what he paid for it not what it's perceived market value is, so I often will help him with stuff I know that he does not.

I wish he could find more tools but he does move stuff in and out pretty quick and so probably does better than many other dealers. Now I have to go out to the shop and try and correct something I am working on.

[Thomas Knighton]

My Disston D8 arrived today. I dated the saw. 1896-1917 based on the medallion per Disstonian Institute's website.

Oh yeah...someone installed a slip-n-slide on this slope and I'm sliding down fast!! :eek:

Tom