first project, several questions

[RickT Harding]

I'm working on my first piece of furniture. It's a bit different than shop cabinets and so I have a few questions.

It's a hall table, walnut base, curly maple top, white maple dovetailed drawers with walnut drawer face.

You can see what I have completed so far here:
http://uploads.mitechie.com/images/wood/hall_table/hall_table_tut-013.jpg

So on the base my original plan was to go with 4-5 coats of tung oil. Thinning the first coat 50/50 as per the instructions. It's 100% tung oil from woodcraft. After reading it seems several people seal the tung oil, so is this regular? I've got some Arm-R-Seal I was thinking of putting down with a few coats. Is that ok for this type of project? I can't think it'll get much of a beating, but it's by a double wide door to the back deck and likely to get a lot of light.

Next up, the maple drawers. I wasn't going to finish the drawers originally, but with the dovetail parts I wanted to do something to help the end grain of the dovetail stand out. So I was wondering if there's a good method of finishing that won't cause the drawers to make everything in them smell or if I should just plan on doing some sort of oil finish to just the outside of the drawers?

Also, from reading it seems that white ample is subject to blotching. Should I shellac them first to prevent blotching? Thanks for any hints.

Hopefully I'm all set on the curly top. Between teh FWW article on "Popping the grain" and The Wood Whisperer podcast on the same I'm hoping I can pull that off.

Thanks a ton for the help.

[Rob Amadon]

Rick,

If you haven't already bought the tung oil I suggest you just use boiled linseed oil. It drys much faster and will give you an even finish in less coats than tung oil requires. It is impossible to tell the difference between the look of them, although tung oil by itself is more water resistant. If you do use the tung oil make sure to wait a couple of days between coats to allow the oil to cure in a warm dry place. You will also probably need 5 to 6 coats to get a finish that isn't dull or uneven.

Arm-r-seal is just a thinned polyurethane varnish, so you could use it over the tung oil. If you do use Arm-r-seal the tung oil is really unnecessary. If you still want to use the tung oil under the varnish you only need to apply one coat of oil.

Shellac is a great choice if you want to finish the insides of drawers. It doesn't cause any smell and it drys very quickly. I would use it as the only finish on the drawers, not just as a sealer. Actually, I would use shellac on the entire table. It looks great on walnut and maple (and cherry and oak and rosewood and bubinga and...you get the point). Shellac gives a warmth and depth to wood that I haven't found in any other film finish.

Hope this helps, if you have questions about anything I said here feel free to ask, or tell me I am full of it. :^)

Rob

[RickT Harding]

Thanks for the info Rob. I do have some BLO on hand and I tried it out on a test piece. I had assumed the thicker nature of the tung oil would have its advantages, plus I always see D. Marks using it on WW. :D

I did like how the tung oil darkened up the walnut nicely so I think I might try that route of a layer of that with the varnish on top. I've got a test board I've been playing with different combinations to see how it'll feel once everything is done/dry.

My shellac is arriving today so maybe I can add that to some tests and see. I still have a while to go as I'm just working on the drawers now and still have to do the top so I have a couple of weeks to play with test parts/let try and such before all is done.

[Rob Amadon]

Rick,

That's funny that you mention David Marks and tung oil. There has been some discussion on forums about him and his finishing. It seems that he doesn't use tung oil at all, he uses Seal-a-cell and Arm-r-seal. This deception has caused many problems for woodworkers attempting to use tung oil to duplicate the finish that Marks achieves. It isn't ever going to happen. You cannot make a pure tung oil finish look like a wipe-on varnish.

Here is a link to Marks' website where he explains what he actually uses. He still has some of the facts wrong. He seems to think that they are an oil/varnish blend when in fact it is poly varnish thinned with mineral spirits. The schedule he uses is somewhat silly since he uses one wiping varnish on top of another, thinking he is using two different types of finish. Oh, and by the way neither of these products contains any tung oil at all!
http://www.djmarks.com/stories/faq/What_is_the_mix_ratio_for_the_Linseed_Oil_Tung_Oil _and_Urethane_46687.asp

Rob

[RickT Harding]

Wow, now that is why I made sure to post here. Thanks, now I have a whole new set of things to test out. I have a feeling finishing this table is going to be more time intensive than actually building it.

Thanks!

[Raul Hernandez]

I would definitely recommend the boiled linseed oil as well. You can wipe it on with a rag, then sand it while still wet down to 400, and you'll get a strikingly-smooth surface. Then wipe on a final coat of the BLO to even it all out, and shellac over it. Some people like the warm look of an orange shellac over walnut, but I prefer it to be as close to colorless as you can get. Use de-waxed shellac if you're going to put a topcoat of some kind on there for durability.

[RickT Harding]

Sorry to keep at this, but I've got my next line up of questions.

On the maple drawers I started trying to finish them today with the dewaxed shellac. I did a brush on, but wow did that not work out. I ended up with just too much, run offs over the sides leaving little streams and it got tacky darn fast.

I ended up doing some wet sanding with 400grit to try to smooth things out and then went back over it, this time wipe on. That seemed to work much nicer.

Now my question is how many coats and how long between. Should I sand between each? I see all kinds of people doing 4+ coats, but the can indicates a total of 2 with a light sanding between.

On the walnut I've got my test with BLO going and I'm pretty happy with it. My questions here also go back to the shellac. The BLO doesn't have great instructions for suggested number of coats and time to dry between BLO coats. After the final coat I wanted to seal it with the Shellac as that seems to be good to prevent leaving it forever to gas off. Again, the number of coats it takes to seal and what sanding should be done before the final top coat?

Thanks a ton for the help. I've been all over trying to get in as much info as I can, but wow is there a ton of info (and not a lot of agreement) out there.

I'm already a bit disappointed at how the drawers are turning out and I really want to avoid that on the walnut base.

[Jim Becker]

One application of BLO is all you need. If the shellac is being used as a sealer, only one coat is all you need. If it's "the" finish, then you'll need to do some practice if you plan on brushing it out...you cannot apply shellac like you might varnish and it's largely skill to be learned. There is a "feel" you need to get. I've experienced that "feel" once in awhile, but even after using it for awhile, it's still difficult for me to get an "outstanding" finish by brushing. Unlike most other finishing products, each application of Shellac dissolves into and becomes one with any previous applications and as you already experienced, the alcohol flashes off pretty quickly. You cannot "work" the finish with the brush like with varnish. Frankly, I've been spraying shellac a lot lately!

What you might consider is learning to "pad" on the shellac, rather than brushing. The technique is covered in any number of the popular finishing books and allows you to gradually wipe on the finish, with results in a silky surface with wonderful clarity.

[RickT Harding]

Thanks, I hadn't run into the padding, but I have seen a few things on french polishing so it makes some sense.

Unfortunately my only experience with a brush before now has been painting and I've not delved into the world of spraying. It seems that the padding is my best bet to get something to come out.

In the end I know my first work isn't going to be a show piece and at least the drawers will normally be closed. :D

[Steve Schoene]

Padding works well and most people find it the easiest to avoid problems. The key with shellac is to work quickly without going back over one place multiple times. If you miss a spot plan to get it one the next application. You should never feel the shellac drag. The first hint of stickiness is a sign to stop and let the surface dry.

Brushing does allow applying somewhat thicker coats. It's extremely hard using your standard paint store brushes, even good ones. I find that a very fine bristle artist's watercolor wash brush works well. The bristle to look for is Taklon gold. These brushes don't carry a lot of material, but they apply it in such thin and even coats that starting and stoppiing aren't a problem. Again you flow it on quickly and evenly without going back.

[RickT Harding]

I tried out the padding idea and it seems to work out very well. I found a link online that basically had it go like this:
1) take a square piece of cloth (I'm using a box of old t-shirts) and fold it up until I got a rectangle something like 1x1x2
2) Wrap that in another cloth and wrap it around so the bottom is nice and flat and I basically get a nice ball
3) Put an ounce of alcohol on the bottom and work it in
4) Put a couple of ounces on the bottom at a time and swipe in straight strokes from the left to the right all the way, move down, repeat...etc

This worked great. The only thing I did do was that the first couple of swipes I started an inch from the edge to prevent getting a blot of shellac over the edge. I went back and forth until I just started to feel it get tacky and viola.

I've got to test it with a few coats, but already seems a ton nicer then the brushing I tried.

[Josh Youngman]

i recently completed a Walnut coffee table and struggled with what finish to use. I ended up using Garnet shellac. it came out great. I tested many different finishes, sealacell, armrseal, BLO, shellac,poly, nothing. The shellac looked the best to me. for the table top i put a few coats of armrseal over it for durability.

[RickT Harding]

My walnut test board I'm liking is 2 coats blo, one rubbed coat of the dewaxed shellac, and I've got one coat of semi gloss Arm-r-Seal on it. I'm going to add a couple more coats to see how I do with the "depth of finish" and go from there. I'm leaning in this direction although now I'm finding out I probably only need one coat of BLO so that might save me some time.

Thanks for the idea of the garnet shellac. I did grab some the other day to play with, but I need to get some more thinner material for it since it comes in 3#.

[RickT Harding]

I'm still working on this table. I had a flooring project come up and disrupt my woodshop time.

My question now is that I've applied BLO to the walnut base and it seems to have raised the grain and has some nibs that to be flattened down. I previously sanded everything to 220grit and not I figure I need to go over it again.

Any suggestions on what grit (or should I try a card scraper) that will not mess up the BLO job I've got already, but smooth out the surface?

After sanding should I got over with another coat of BLO, or sohuld it be ok to start sealing with shellac?

[Steve Schoene]

I typically use 320 grit for sanding between coats, with a very light touch for BLO. A card scraper is also very good for nibs.

If you haven't changed the color of the BLO by very light sanding you are still good to go.