Just ill over saw purchase

[Steve Hepditch]

So I finally pulled the trigger on a cabinet saw purchase. After much research, reading and wallet-searching I ordered the Griz 1023SLX. I have several other Grizzly tools and I've been very happy with them.

I picked the saw up on Tuesday, set it up Wednesday. Several hours of cleaning and assembly later, I had a tablesaw. Unfortunately, I didn't have one with flat tables or a blade that could be squared to the miter slots or fence. I also had a fence that had one face 1/16" above the table at the same time the other side was dragging on the iron and clunking its way through the miter slots.

The right wing has a crown in it. I can't quantify it (my "straightedge" is a 4-foot level about which I have my doubts) but it's level on each end and high in the middle. The left wing required some shimming, but appears to be flat at this time. I loosened up the table-mounting bolts and nudged the table to its maximum adjustment (i.e. there's no more play in the mounting holes) but I'm still 1/8" or better out of alignment with the miter slots and fence. The good news is that the fence is perfectly aligned with the miter slots. Woo hoo. I can't seem to adjust the faces of the fence up and down, and I'm confused as to how they can be so uneven - one side has a long taper on it, making the near end of it drag on the table while the far end is a respectable 1/16" in the air.

Of course I've contacted Grizzly and their customer service has been prompt and attempted to be helpful (I'm expecting a call from a technician today) but I'm still unhappy. Not so much with the saw, or my treatment from Grizzly, but with my recent discovery that I COULD HAVE HAD A LEFT TILT UNISAW WITH A 50" BIES FENCE FOR $1362 DELIVERED FROM WOODWORKER SUPPLY.

Insert Charlie Brown-esque AAAARRRRGGGGGHHHH here.

So I spent $1200 delivered for my saw. I'm sure I'll be happy with it once I figure out how to get even cuts with it, and I did save *some* money - at least in the short term. Make no mistake, though, if I had known that I could get the Delta for $162 more, I think I'd be USING my new toy instead of trying to get it set up - and it would be blue, not green.


Yes, I'm a moron, thanks for letting me vent.

Steve

[Michael Ballent]

We all have been your shoes at one time or another... Based on the information you had available at the time you pulled the trigger it was the best decision... No need to cry over spilled milk... That saw has had very good reviews and I sure that Griz will take care of the problems. If not you can just pack it back up and get that Unisaw :)

Best of luck,
Michael

[John Miliunas]

Michael, believe me when I say that, I really *feel* you frustration! Been there, done that. Thought I did enough research, thought I had enough positive opinions, but still ended up with (initially) a piece, which wasn't useable. :mad: In the end, the vendor worked with me and we came up with an amicable solution and I'm quite happy with the end results. :D Will I buy from them again? Maybe. If they carry a piece I'm in need of, probably. But, when I went to buy my TS a few months back, I wasn't taking *any* chances: I bought a Bridgewood from Wilke. :D Reason? I had not read a *single* bad comment, review or opinion on the saw or vendor! Good decision? I'd do it all over again, exactly the same way and in a heartbeat! Good luck with yours. I'm hopeful that your Griz experience is one of the "success stories"! If you have any problems with Griz resolving your issues at the level you're working with now, give Bill Crofutt over there a call. He'll make it right! :cool:

[Chuck Wintle]

Steve,
I would pack up the saw and send it back. It sounds like you got a "lemon" and the only solution will be to return for a refund or exchange. I think the quality of these Asian machines is variable and quality control in the manufacturing plants is not as stringent as it should be and Grizzley may have problems with the latest batch of saws. just my 2 cents

[Kelly C. Hanna]

Sorry to hear that. A few people who have pushed the Uni button on the $1350 deal have reported dished wings, so know that the Uni's aren't perfect either.

Keep calling until you get someone who will take care of your problem the way you want it taken care of. The first person you call will most always not be the one to help you.

[Eric Porter]

Steve,
I just wanted you to know that I ordered the UNISAW with Beis fence, from Woodworker's Suppy, and I had problems very similar to yours.

If you recall, I posted a pre-gloat about two weeks ago when I ordered my saw, along with pics of my lumber rack. I never posted the pics of the saw, because I have yet to use it. It arrived on Tuesday the 17th. and when I opened it, I noticed a large scratch (about 13" long) on the main cast iron table. It isn't extrememly deep, and I probably would have buffed it out if I had bought it used, but in my mind it was simply unacceptable for a tool that I paid that much for. The scratch was the only problem with the main unit, I also checked it for flatness, and it was dead flat, unlike the cast iron extension wing which was bowed up on one end almost a 1/16th of an inch. I called Delta and explained the situation, and they sent out replacement parts via freight truck, but they didn't arrive until yesterday. I am hoping that I will have time to clean and check everything tonight. I am sure that I will love it once it is all put together, and setup, but I echo your frustration that I paid so much for something that wasn't perfect out of the box.

I agree with everyone else, consistent quality takes a backseat to increased output when it comes to anthing that is mass produced.

I hope that everything works out for you.

Eric

[Dave Anderson]

I also had a fence that had one face 1/16" above the table at the same time the other side was dragging on the iron and clunking its way through the miter slots.

The good news is that the fence is perfectly aligned with the miter slots. Woo hoo.

Steve, it's always sad to hear of problems like this when eagerness and expectations of instant use of the new toy are so high. As others have already said - your problem is not unique to Grizzly and given enough time you will probably get satisfaction. Good luck!

I want to address a couple of the points you raised regarding alignment.

First, the fence faces: You have a Bies clone - take the fence off the saw and flip it upside down. You should see the small bolts that hold the face to the steel tube. You should be able to loosen those bolts and adjust the face. With bolts loose, put the fence back on the saw with a couple 1/32" shims under the face. Clamp the face in place, flip, re-tighten bolts and you should be OK.

Second, blade/miter slot/fence alignment: You seem very happy that the miter slots and fence are aligned - this means absolutely NOTHING! Both the miter slots and fence need to be aligned to the blade. Not enough time and space in this post to get into the detail of these adjustments but quickly... First align the miter slots to the blade (looks like you tried to do this but could get no closer than 1/8") If you can't get the slots <u>exactly</u> parallel to the blade - return the top! The fence registers off the blade as well, not the miter slots. You should be able to adjust the fence using the jib screws on the front angle iron. Strive to get the back of the fence no more than .005 "out" from the front but the closer to parallel the better. Just make sure the back of the fence is not closer to the blade than the front.

I'm typing quickly here at work so my explanations may not be clear or detailed enough. I'm sure others here can chime in and give you more detail!!!

Again, sorry you're having problems.

[Ed Falis]

Steve,

Listen to what Dave said about the table adjustment.

It's sad that you got that disappointment, but these things happen, and we work them out. When I got the same BW that John did, it was missing a manual, and some parts for the overhead guard I'd ordered along with it. And it was a real disappointment, given that I was so geared up to assemble it all and try it out. But the manufacturer took care of the nits, and I was on my way within a week. Haven't looked back.

I'm guessing you won't be looking back either, before too long.

- Ed

[Howard Rosenberg]

First - congratulations on the saw.
You deserve congratulations.
It's a big purchase - in dollars and function.
So, congratulations.

Second - stop beating yourself up.
You AREN'T a moron.
You made a decision based on the info you had at the time.
That sounds SMART.

Third - to get really great service because it sounds like you're gonna need it:
- get everyone's name, operator ID and extension no matter where they rank in the food chain at Grizzly
- explain your saw's situation fully
(you're gonna be repeating it LOTS of times, so stay patient)
- and also explain that you're documenting every single conversation
- and that whoever steps up to the plate to really help you will be acknowledged in a letter to that person's supervisor
- keep going up their ladder until you get to somebody that can make things happen for you
- if you meet any kind of robot response, stop that person and ask them whether THEY'RE a consumer when THEY leave work and you're sure they can understand your concern and frustration

Fourth - when you DO get it resolved, send those letters like you promised

I wish you the best.
Howard

P.S. - make sure to keep us posted on your progress

[Steve Hepditch]

Thanks for the encouragement folks. Upon reflection, I do feel a little better about the idea that any manufacturer can turn out a "lemon" (i.e. getting a Delta doesn't guarantee perfection out of the box). Grizzly also has a good reputation for customer service, so I'm sure that I will (eventually) be happy with the saw.

Dave - while I think the resolution to the miter slot problem will end up with me returning to table top, I am encouraged by the idea that I can adjust the faces on the fence. I thought I couldn't adjust the faces in the vertical plane, just the horizontal. I'm going out now to look at getting the fence up to speed.

Coming in off the ledge,
Steve

[John Weber]

Steve,

You have a couple options, since the saw has problems you should be able to return it as unsatisfactory. Or you can let Grizzly try and make the saw right for you. If the saw was fine right out of the box and you changed your mind Grizzly has a 30 day return policy, minus shipping charges and a possible 10% restocking fee. Since the saw was "defective" they should pay the return freight and there should not be any additional charges. I think you can go either way, if you feel like you made a big mistake.

John

[Chris Padilla]

Steve,

Just a thought but take a look at the runout on the arbor for the saw. I wonder if it is just a poor table top or perhaps something is amiss with the arbor/trunnion area? In other words, it is possible a new top won't solve the problem.

Good Luck...keep after Grizzly...I'm sure they will come through. My Griz1023Z has been great.

[JayStPeter]

My Unisaw came with a couple of problems including a Bies fence that was way out of whack and needed to be replaced. On the plus side, I think your fence faces can be removed and shimmed right. You can't do that on a real Bies.
If all else fails, get in touch with Bill Croffut at Grizzly directly. When my Grizzly bandsaw had some problems, he made it happen quickly and painlessly.

Jay

[Steve Hepditch]

Talked to a couple of people at Grizzly yesterday and I feel a fair bit better. I did, of course, have to remove the entire table top for the fix - which means I had to disassemble the rails, wings and laminate table - but the problem was then obvious.

During shipping, the arbor slots that ride on the trunnion rails and allow the blade to tilt from 90 to 45 had "slipped the track". Once I heaved that back into place, I was able to align the fence and blade to the miter slots. Lesson learned - when buying large, heavy iron, start from the beginning and work your way through assembly slowly. That way you'll only do it once. The saw came with the main table already attached to the cabinet, but I should have removed it to inspect the trunnions for shipping damage.

Since nothing was cracked or broken, all I lost was time - but I learned a few things I wouldn't have known otherwise.

As far as the fence faces and extension wing, Bo at Grizzly tech support was extremely helpful and is shipping me new parts on Monday. Throughout this week, the one thing I was counting on was Grizzly's excellent reputation for customer service, and they delivered. Their follow-up was prompt and effective, and I feel a *lot* better about my choice of saw. Sure, it was a financial decision - with more funds I'd have likely gone with the Bridgewood - but it's a perfectly good saw and the customer service is excellent.

Oh, and the fence faces aren't adjustable up and down. They screw into the fence tube from the front and there's no play in the holes. I ended up taking a nice old Stanley #4 and whisking a few hairs off the back end of that face and now she's just fine. I even tried switching one face for the other, and it was still low, so I think the fence tube itself is bad. I have to check and see if it's 90 degrees to the saw table...

Steve

[Keith Outten]

Steve,

Get in touch with Bill Crofutt (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/member.php?userid=1014) if you need Grizzly Management to assist you with your problems. Bill is the Vice President of Quality and has helped our members with problems in the past.

[Kelly C. Hanna]

Talked to a couple of people at Grizzly yesterday and I feel a fair bit better. Steve

Great news Steve....I know most everytime we hear of problems from the big tool makers, someone steps up to the plate and fixes things. Glad you are getting back on track with your saw!

[Christopher Stahl]

Are you talking $1362 with thursday's 10% off sale??? I was curious how you would get that price?

thanks,
chris



Of course I've contacted Grizzly and their customer service has been prompt and attempted to be helpful (I'm expecting a call from a technician today) but I'm still unhappy. Not so much with the saw, or my treatment from Grizzly, but with my recent discovery that I COULD HAVE HAD A LEFT TILT UNISAW WITH A 50" BIES FENCE FOR $1362 DELIVERED FROM WOODWORKER SUPPLY.

[Steve Hepditch]

Chris,
If you go to the WWS site and add the saw of your choice, in your shopping cart it should apply a 10% "first time buyer" discount. If it doesn't show up, try cleaning out any old WWS cookies and that should do it.

I know I added it the other day (to my shopping cart) just to see if it would work, and it did. I just tried 5 minutes ago and it wouldn't apply the discount - I'm pretty sure that's the cookie issue.

Try adding from this link:

http://woodworker.com/cgi-bin/FULLPRES.exe?PARTNUM=36-830A

In conjunction with the free freight, it's a pretty good deal. Having said that, I'm now quite satisfied with my Griz, customer service really shone through on this one. I could have ordered the Delta, had similar problems and not gotten as timely a resolution. To celebrate, I bought a brad nailer - and I'm still in under the price of the Delta...


Steve

PS - looking back, I should apologize for the stealth gloat. I was in too bad a mood to feel particularly proud at the time. I keep meaning to post some pics, they will follow eventually...

[Chris Padilla]

Hey, I was pretty close! :) What do I win?

Glad you got things fixed, Steve. Way to go Grizzly! :)

[Ed Falis]

Hey Steve,

Glad to hear it all got sorted out. So, how's it cut?

- Ed