Old machines

[Thong Nguyen]

I just bought 2 old machines, a 18" Rockwell planer, and a 16" Rockwell/Crescent jointer. Both are in working order, but they are 3 phase power, 5HP. To use these machines at my home, I need some kind of phase converter. Can you guys help me, don't know much about 3 phase power.
Thanks.

[Grant Charlick]

grizzly has alot of ways to approach that in their catalog. Check it out at www.grizzly.com (http://www.grizzly.com). They have two main types of phase converters.

[John-Paul Murphy]

Another alternative if you don't mind getting your hands dirty:) is to replace the motors. You can find used ones relatively cheep.

[Victor Stearns]

Greetings. As I recall Kay is the best. Here is a link. I have no idea of pricing.
http://www.kayind.com/

Victor

[Bruce Page]

I use a phase-a-matic static converter on my two 3ph machines. It works well for me.
http://www.phase-a-matic.com/?gclid=CPDb47Pv4pACFQSeYAodRGjAQA

[Thong Nguyen]

Thank you guys.

[Raymond McInnis]

thong, keith rucker, webmaster for www.owwm.com (http://www.owwm.com), is writing a history of crescent machine, and probably would be happy to talk with you. he has reconditioned several crescent bandsaws.

[Joe Chritz]

Rotary converters are better in that they don't lose any of the HP of the motor. A suitable size rotary will run several machines at once if that is necessary.

Static converters are simpler and cheaper but use a bit of the motor HP in the conversion. Static converters generally run just one machine. I imagine you could wire it up so the same one services both just not at the same time.

There is a VFD (variable freq drive) that will convert 3PH to single and give you full adjustable speed. Expensive but really cool for something like a lathe.

There is a big difference in cost. I lost the link but there are some good ones out there on converting from 3PH to 1PH.

Joe

Nice score by the way.

[Thong Nguyen]

I looked up all the links, and sure the prices are much different. I am only a hobby wood worker, and I will use the machines one at the time. Will the static converter will work ok? do I have to get 2 for 2 machine? or 1 for 2 machine? Will the hook easy? Thanks.

[Joe Chritz]

Might be worth your money to hire an electrician to take care of it if you have any doubts.

Wiring a static converter wrong can kill it when you switch power on.

Since it takes 1PH in and sends 3PH out I imagine you could split to two machines as long as only one at a time is running.

Joe

[Bruce Page]

I looked up all the links, and sure the prices are much different. I am only a hobby wood worker, and I will use the machines one at the time. Will the static converter will work ok? do I have to get 2 for 2 machine? or 1 for 2 machine? Will the hook easy? Thanks.
Thong, I use a single “Heavy Duty” Phase-a-Matic to start both of my machines. On occasion, I have run them both at the same time, you just have to be careful not to START them simultaneously or you'll blow the capacitor. I have been using the same converter for close to 15 years without incident or problem. It was not difficult to wire up.

.

[mike wacker]

This is done in several applications for specific reasons commercially. In the morning I am asking several of my suppliers to look into the feasability (ie is someone doing this already) of supplying a VFD with 240 single phase power and having it deliver 3 phase 208 or 480 volt power. Again, this is done on smaller motors. I'm trying to see if this is economically and physically feasable way of using old Iron set up for 3 phase in our shops. I should have a resonble idea by tomorrow evening.

[mike wacker]

OK I looked in to this. You can make 208 3 phase with a VFD feeding it 240 single phase. I had one priced out by a friendly electrical supply house. With a dial to adjust speed it was just over a Grand. If you got a 3 phase machine cheap and it was wireable for 208 this might be the way to go.

[M Toupin]

OK I looked in to this. You can make 208 3 phase with a VFD feeding it 240 single phase. I had one priced out by a friendly electrical supply house. With a dial to adjust speed it was just over a Grand. If you got a 3 phase machine cheap and it was wireable for 208 this might be the way to go.

Hopefully its a real friendly electrical supply house and they'll give you a kiss for that $1000 too:D

You can pick up a 5hp, 1ph 220v input/3ph 220v out put VFD for $600.
http://www.driveswarehouse.com/Drives/AC+Drives/Phase+Converter+VFD/PC1-50.html

For $550 you can derate a 3ph input unit and run it on 1ph by doubling the hp rating. This means you'll need a 10hp unit to run your 5hp motor.
http://www.factorymation.com/s.nl/it.A/id.5567/.f?category=15367



For the OP:

You have several options, each with it's pluses and minuses. You;ll have to decide for yourself whats the best method or if replacing the motor with a 1ph is viable. Keep in mind that many old machines had special purpose motors which can be very expensive if you can even find one.

Here's a rundown on the options:

1. VFD (Variable frequency drive) - simplest and easiest to implement. takes single phase power and outputs true 3 phase. 3hp is generally the limit for 1ph input, though there are units up to 5hp available or you can derate some of the higher hp units and run them on single phase.

2. static phase converter - basically just running your 3phase motor on single phase. 3 phase motors can actually be run on only single phase, the trick is to get it spinning... a static converter uses capacitors to provide power to get it spinning. The down side is you loose about 33% power. Maybe a problem, maybe not...

3. Rotary phase converter - you can buy or build one, it's basically a generator (not really, but it'll due for this discussion) using a 3 phase motor to generate the 3rd leg or phase. If your serious about 3phase machines this is a real option. Downside is they need to be balanced to your load and you'll need some additional wiring for your new 3 phase distribution system which can add considerable cost.

Mike

Edit -

It was brought to my attention that I actually missed two other options and I will agree... sorta:

Street power - The ideal solution, though we really wouldn't talking if it was a option would we?

Electronic phase converter - much like a VFD without the VF. Phase Perfect is probably the best known, and they are expensive... being cheap I don't consider it an option, especially when a VFD is a lot cheaper and you get VS, reversible, soft start/stop etc. It is an option though.

[Brian Ross]

Have one of these and it is rated for 20 hp. I can operate a 10 ft slider with a 9 hp main motor and a 5 hp dust collector at the same time with no loss of power. I believe this unit sells in the 900 dollar range. The advantage of 3 phase is that tou are able to buy commercial power tools and not have to compete with the hobbyist. 3 phase tools nearly always sell for less than if it was single phase. American rotary were excellent to deal with and have a good product.

Brian

[Thong Nguyen]

Thank you every one, finally picked up the machines and came home all good.
It was a big load. Look like there are a few options that I have to choose for the power. Again, thank you all.
Thong.

[Chris Padilla]

Thong,

I must insist with a GLOAT like this that you take pictures and post them PRONTO!! :D

Welcome to the Creek, BTW!!!

[Thong Nguyen]

80060

80061

Here is the jointer.

[Thong Nguyen]

and the planer

80062

80063

[J.R. Rutter]

You can certainly run multiple machines simultaneously on a static converter. In fact, you can wire it up so that the largest motor acts almost like a rotary converter to get better performance from the smaller motor(s). I did this for years when I started my business in my garage. If I had to rip 8/4 lumber on my 2 HP, 3 PH saw, I would turn on my 5 HP shaper and let it idle. It was one of those situations where that 30% normally lost by running a 3 ph motor on 1 ph was needed!

[Bruce Page]

Thong, those look great. Do you have power to them yet?

[Thong Nguyen]

Thong, those look great. Do you have power to them yet?
Bruce, no power yet, but I am working on it now.
Thong.