Table saw fence question.

[Kent E. Matthew]

I am getting closer and closer to a table saw purchase. I have been monitoring craiglist since last September. I know a used cabinet saw would be ideal, but I spent the day thinking about what if. I went to a Woodcraft and looked at the Jet contractor.

Plus: Motor inside, price.
Minus: Not very sturdy, and the fence while it works well it is made in two pieces and may cause trouble down the line. No cast iron wings.

I went to Lowes. I look at their Delta Contractor saw every time I go in.

Plus: Cast iron wings provided, it has a more solid feel, price. I like the fence better on this model then the Jet.
Minus: Would I still want a cabinet?


I am getting to a question. The Delta at Lowes you get to choose the fence that comes with it. The model at the showroom is a Delta T2 fence. On the demo model I noticed that it's about an 1/8 out of square with the table. Can this be adjusted?

[Cary Falk]

Kent,
I had a older model of that table saw without the mobile base and it was RT. It is a great saw. The T2 fence is great and is fully adjustable. I bought it with every intention of it being my last saw. The problem was that I was reading to many forums and got the bug to restore a old Unisaw. I found a 1970 fixer upper for cheep on Craig's List and so that is what I have now.
What I am trying to say is the Delta at Lowes is a great saw and could easily be your last saw. Will you eventually want a cabinet saw? Maybe. If you are thinking you want a cabinet saw I would probably go ahead and get one. The Grizzly 1023 is a popular choice at a reasonable price.

[Bruce Page]

Kent, most of us that have cabinet saws started out with a contractor saw. There had been tons of beautiful work come off of CS. But, if you think you would be happier with a cabinet saw (I am), I think you should wait until you find the right deal.
To answer your second question, most of the guys at the big box stores just throw the saws together and don’t take the time to set them up correctly. I don’t know the T2 personally but I’m sure you can adjust the fence; Delta wouldn’t be able to sell them otherwise.

[keith micinski]

I just bought the lowes delta saw. I couldn't be happier with it so far. I am still waiting for my ts aligner to come but using my squares and a set of calipers it looks like the saw came really close to perfect. I looked at the t2 fence really hard and it can be adjusted just fine. As a matter of fact I bet there isn't much difference in performance between the bies and the t2 except for about 150 dollars in price. That having been said I found a used 52 inch unifence for sale for 150 and bought it instead. I would have had no problem getting a t2 though.

[Russ Sears]

I've had that Delta saw and T2 fence from Lowe's for about 9 months or so and it's great. I work in my garage so mobility is a necessity. I couldn't be happier with the saw. As others have said, the fence is fully adjustable (and rock solid).

[Chuck Lenz]

When your ready for dust collection on those Contractors saws let me know.

[Thom Sturgill]

I priced bothg when I bought mine a couple of months ago and went with the Jet JPS-10 (currently $750 at rockler, but was $699 when I bought it, Just over $800 delivered).

While its not a cabinet saw, it is solid and has one of the better fences, a slightly bigger motor (1.75HP vs 1.5 for the Delta) and weighs a little over 100lbs more. Just wish it had a true riving knife.

[keith micinski]

It kills me how big of a deal people make out of dust collection. Would really nice dust collection be great? Sure. I would love to be independently wealthy to. I have run my stuff with out any dust collection at all for 10 years and lived. Now that I upgraded to the delta saw and hooked my shop vac up to it I really don't see why you would need it to be any better. It's wood working for pete's sake. Is there going to be a little dust sure. Is it going to justify someone spending 2500 bucks for a saw they use as a hobby. I don't see how you could look at dust collection as a make or break item personally but I guess that is just me.

[Bruce Wrenn]

The saws at Lowes only have the T-2 fences available now. They clearanced both the Uni, and Bies some time back. If you can hang on, they will eventually get rid of the Delta's also. They did this for the Jet saws a couple years ago., with some stores going as cheap as $175 for a new contractor saw. Don't forget to watch craigslist for a used contractor's saw. I bought my last one for $100, and added one of the fences from Lowes. Total costs $184.80. I have seen Delta contractor's saws on craigslist for as little as $50.00. Here this week, there was a Unisaw for $150.00. Sold in five minutes.

[Joe Chritz]

It kills me how big of a deal people make out of dust collection. Would really nice dust collection be great? Sure. I would love to be independently wealthy to. I have run my stuff with out any dust collection at all for 10 years and lived. Now that I upgraded to the delta saw and hooked my shop vac up to it I really don't see why you would need it to be any better. It's wood working for pete's sake. Is there going to be a little dust sure. Is it going to justify someone spending 2500 bucks for a saw they use as a hobby. I don't see how you could look at dust collection as a make or break item personally but I guess that is just me.

Grandpa sucked asbestos and smoked every day till it killed him.

Dust collection is a huge deal for a lot of people and can be a deal breaker on some pieces of equipment. A tablesaw probably isn't one of them.

The advantages of a cabinet saw are much more than just dust collection.

That said, I still run a contractor saw which has been modified to have decent dust control, about as good as one can get without an overhead guard.

A $30 respirator will do the same thing as a $3000 state of the art dust collection system.

Joe

[Chuck Lenz]

It kills me how big of a deal people make out of dust collection. Would really nice dust collection be great? Sure. I would love to be independently wealthy to. I have run my stuff with out any dust collection at all for 10 years and lived. Now that I upgraded to the delta saw and hooked my shop vac up to it I really don't see why you would need it to be any better. It's wood working for pete's sake. Is there going to be a little dust sure. Is it going to justify someone spending 2500 bucks for a saw they use as a hobby. I don't see how you could look at dust collection as a make or break item personally but I guess that is just me.
Ummm Keith, I think you misunderstood my post. I have been useing a Delta Contractors table saw for about 12 years and I don't have any plans on buying a expensive cabinet saw in the near future for the same reason as you stated. But, I do believe dust collection is important, actually very important. You may not now, but someday you will. Anyway, I wasn't being a smartalick, I have been working on dust collection for my saw for sometime now and I finally have it the way I want it, plus it doesn't interfear with blade tilting operations. But then again who really cares huh? I'm about ready to give it up. This is really geting to be a huge waste of my time. Like woodworking, I should just be doing things for myself. I like what I built and thats all that should matter. I'm tired of worrying about what other people think and if someones going to steal my idea.

[Randal Stevenson]

The saws at Lowes only have the T-2 fences available now. They clearanced both the Uni, and Bies some time back. If you can hang on, they will eventually get rid of the Delta's also. They did this for the Jet saws a couple years ago., with some stores going as cheap as $175 for a new contractor saw. Don't forget to watch craigslist for a used contractor's saw. I bought my last one for $100, and added one of the fences from Lowes. Total costs $184.80. I have seen Delta contractor's saws on craigslist for as little as $50.00. Here this week, there was a Unisaw for $150.00. Sold in five minutes.

The fact that they cleared out those fences, does make me wonder if they still sell them (it would be a special order).

Besides these saws, any reasons your not looking at something like the Craftsman Hybrid saws? (in between the contractor and cabinet saws). There are other ones as well, but they might be an option to consider.

[Kent E. Matthew]

I am just noodling here. I have used a Uni at work so I am a bit spoiled. It is nice to hear good reviews on the Delta contractor. My idea of dust collection is three fold. Place table saw near sliding door. Open door. Place large fan behind saw. That's about it.

Honestly, I am having a hard time justifying the expensive of a cabinet. I would love to have one. But, I need other things too. I am still watching craigslist. I will give it until the end of this summer.

[Gary Muto]

I have a Delta with a T2 fence. It works great and was easy to set up and adjust. It's a lighter version of a Beis design. When side loaded, it will probably deflect more but otherwise it would perform the same. There should be no problem aligning it.

[Alan Tolchinsky]

It kills me how big of a deal people make out of dust collection. Would really nice dust collection be great? Sure. I would love to be independently wealthy to. I have run my stuff with out any dust collection at all for 10 years and lived. Now that I upgraded to the delta saw and hooked my shop vac up to it I really don't see why you would need it to be any better. It's wood working for pete's sake. Is there going to be a little dust sure. Is it going to justify someone spending 2500 bucks for a saw they use as a hobby. I don't see how you could look at dust collection as a make or break item personally but I guess that is just me.

I'd only get dust collection if you care about your lungs. Otherwise forget about it. Have you ever seen an emphasyma patient? They can hardly breathe and a lot of them die from their disease.

Sometimes in life you never know what you have until it's gone. We take breathing for granted but it can be taken away over time without you even knowing about it. Until it's too late.

How about this idea: Just wear a good mask and protect your lungs. But I would never try to tell you what to do. It's your life AND lungs.

[keith micinski]

I am not saying in a perfect world dust collection is not good. Comparing saw dust to asbestos is a bad example to use since it is kind of a foolish comparison. Cabinet saws are an obvious upgrade but unfortunately I have read a lot of posts on this site and somewhere along the way it usually feels like contractor saws are useless and dangerous and aren't even worth trying to use. This is not the case. Most people don't cut 8/4 material all day long. 1.5 horse is more then enough for most work. I didn't mean to sound rude but like I said I read this web site extensively and the more you look you will see that people have gotten a little ridiculous with the "just buy a cabinet saw" mentality. That having been said yes lowe's still sales the unifence and biesmeyer as special order. For 550.00 out the door the jet nor the craftsman nor the rigid came close. After using a crappy 1960 craftsman saw and fence for years now. I have come to the conclusion that nothing matters more on a table saw then a good fence. That having been said the craftsman ridgid and jet fence are almost all an exact copy of each other and it doesn't compare to a t2 a bies or a unifence. That t2 is a severely underrated fence. It doesn't deflect any more then a bies or a uni and I would not have been afraid to buy it at all.

[Chuck Lenz]

I have read a lot of posts on this site and somewhere along the way it usually feels like contractor saws are useless and dangerous and aren't even worth trying to use. This is not the case.
I'm with ya there. I like my Contractors table saw. http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c89/Woodchuck_/100_0059_2-1.jpg

[Alan Tolchinsky]

"Comparing saw dust to asbestos is a bad example to use since it is kind of a foolish comparison"

Actually asbestos/saw dust is a good comparison. They both get into your lungs and they both can prematurely end your life. You hardly know you're breathing either one but the damage is being done. Breathing saw dust is just not as scarry sounding as breathing asbestos but it'll kill you just the same. So all in all a very valid comparison in my opinion.

[Dave MacArthur]

Kent,
I'm not sure what CL you're looking at, but the Colorado Springs one today has some GREAT deals! Look at this General TS below, he is accepting best offer and doesn't know anything about it! You could get it for $600 probably.

Jan 4 - General Table Saw - $800 (http://cosprings.craigslist.org/tls/528543020.html) (Aurora),
and
OMG! LOOK AT THIS (ok, probably too much $ but WOW what a deal! Someone else has GOT to jump on this!)
http://cosprings.craigslist.org/tls/526979545.html
1990 SCMI Sliding Table Saw
12" Blade, 10' Bed
1,500.00 OBO
Contact 719-491-7195

Then here's one:
tools- table saw - $1000
10" Delta table saw, 52" unifence, w/blade cabinet, cast iron wing, 1.5" maple fence side/ out feed table, all on delta wheel platform. excellent condition, must see. Mike- 719-648-1565


Then here is a contractor saw for cheap!:
DELTA 10" TABLE SAW MODEL 36-600 - $195

Anyways, I just enjoy browsing CL, and thought a couple of those deals (the General and the Unisaw) were worth calling, you might get them cheaper.

BTW, I used a Delta 34-444 for 11 years, and never had a problem with it. If I hadn't caught the Craigs List bug, I'd be using it still! ;)

[keith micinski]

Saw dust and asbestos are not equal. If anyone can say that with a straight face more power to ya. Buying a used unisaw for a 1000 or an unknown quantity in a general at 800 with who knows what kind of fence isn't a very good comparison to a 550 dollar saw that isn't going to need restoration or come with someone else's creative solutions to existing problems. Plus in my experience when people don't know what they have they generally treat it that way. I would much rather spend a few more dollars and buy from an owner that is knowledgeable and cares enough to know what there working with. Thats not to say there aren't good deals out there to be had every day it just seems like the Man that invented the saying " If something is to good to be true it probably isn't " was as smart as they come. I know I am probably coming off as some sort of Delta contractor saw freak but after doing a months worth of research I feel like it really is the best option if that is all you can afford. To be honest with you I have never liked Delta and I really wanted a Powermatic 64a that I had a chance to buy last year and passed on and that is what started this whole search. I will agree it is going to kill me if in the next year Lowes puts that saw on sale for something crazy like they did with the unifence and Biesmeyer because they are going to start carrying some new hybrid but oh well my saw will still fit my needs and I will just have to be happy with it.

[Eddie Darby]

Most people that have a cabinet saw, end-up eventually upgrading their fence with an after-market fence. I would get the best saw I could afford, and then upgrade later to a better fence.

I own a Jet 10" cabinet saw with a Mule Accu-Square fence, and I see that a second generation Mule type fence has come out that looks like it is way better. It is called Red Line.

http://store.thesawshop.com/catalogue/default.php

This fence is more solid and easier to attach than the old Mule. It has the nice double "T" slot design that makes jig use a breeze.

[Dan Bussiere]

Kent,
I just bought a Delta Contractor Saw this Christmas. I added a Bies fence system I had previously bought on the Lowes closeout. So far I think it is a great saw for the weekend woodworker. I have absolutely no regrets and don't see myself "upgrading" to a cabinet saw. Each to his/her own, but for my money it's a great saw.

Dan

[Chuck Lenz]

I think what everyone needs to know about dust collection on a Contractors tablesaw is your dust collector needs fresh air. Sealing up the whole cabinet air tight will do no more than starve your collector and cut the efficiency. The back can be hard to close off fully so instead of atempting to close the back off air tight, leave it open partially for fresh air, and seal everything else in the saw up such as, useing one inch closed cell foam to fill the gap between the cabinet and the cast top, then seal up the slot in the front of the cabinet for the blade raiseing handwheel, I used a piece of magnetic sign material. If all the fresh air is comeing in the back of the cabinet drawing air in, the chances of small dust particles are reduced. I also put a dust diverter behind the blade that ramps down to the custom built sheet metal dust chute I built to reduce the chances more. There are several ways to partially block the back without interfearing with blade tilting issues, but this is how I chose to do mine. Don't let anyone tell you good dust collection can't be achieved on a Contractors saw, It can be done and my saw is proof of it. And I didn't have to spend big money on a Hybrid or cabinet saw to achieve it.