Is a radial arm saw a worthwhile tool to buy?

[Jim Canniff]

Hi all,

First post here. I'm just getting into woodworking and will be putting together a basement shop, so will be asking lots of questions about layout and tools.

First one, is should I buy a radial arm saw? I used one in a woodworking class I took, but only because they did not have a miter saw. Right now for saws I have a 10" compound miter saw, table saw and small bandsaw, and of course jig, circular, etc. So, question is, should I get a radial arm saw? I see Craftsman 10" radial arm saws on Craigslist all the time for ~$100-. Which seems like short money. But, should I bother? Is money better spent towards a 12" sliding compound miter saw? And anyway, what are the advantages of a radial arm saw over the compound miter and tablesaw.

Thanks very much.;):)

[Wade Lippman]

If you have plenty of room, and you can find a good one, they are worth having. Nothing better for dados; and the 16" crosscut is nice. They do not replace a CMS, as adjusting them to angles is a royal pain.
I got rid of mine because I couldn't justify the space it took up.

[Simon Dupay]

I'd get one, there great for dadoes, wide crosscuts, and rough cutting lumber (safer then a miter saw). Get either a Delta, Comet, Dewalt, or Craftsmen older then 1970 (not like the one in the pic).

[Bob Rufener]

Since you already have a compound miter saw, I don't see much advantage to buying a radial arm saw. As was said by the other fellows, they work very well for dadoes and wide crosscuts. I use mine almost exclusively for these purposes. I have an older Craftsman that has worked well. I've thought about selling it and buying a sliding compound miter saw but don't see that much advantage as I don't do much with odd angles. If you can find a decent one for a decent price and you have the room for it, then I would say go for it. If you get one, make sure you get yourself the appropriate blade that won't make the saw want to come at you and rip your arm off.

[John-Paul Murphy]

The radial was my first saw. Now that I have a table saw and a slide miter saw I rarely use it. Sometimes I set it up for a specific task and leave it so I do not continually have to adjust one of the other saws.
:D...It’s easier to recommend this than to do it my self…:D
If you are planning a project and need a specific tool or do a repetitive task and need a specific tool for that task that is the time to look for and buy that tool.
That being said I have a lot of tools lying around the shop that are never used but bought them fully intending to use them some day….;)

[Bob Feeser]

I have a Sears Craftsman 10" Professional, never keeps a setting radial arm saw. It is total junk, that is why they are selling a $525, at least when I bought it saw, for only $100 used.
What I am using it for is to lock it at a perfect 90, tighten it down real good at that setting, and use an inexpensive Avengar Dado set with it, stackable at exactly 1/4". It makes a great dado station that way. If I need to kerf out a pocket, I can mark my lines, both width, and the bottom depth, and go over there and use it. No having to reset up or configure table saw with dado blades that way. Of course for long dados, the table saw is required.
For that reason, and that reason only, I keep the Craftsman saw. I noticed that someone mentioned certain years Craftsman were ok, that is something to consider. I know some of the heavy Delta's did a good job. Radial arm saws as you may well know are dangerous due to the nature of the way they are put together. They are forced to spin the blade so as to keep the workpiece trapped against the rear fence. That forces the blade, with the sliding arm to want to jump across the wood right at you. So the RAS I mentioned above does have one feature that is worthwhile, and that is a steel cable, mounted to a separate motor, that you can adjust the feed rate to a slow or faster speed, but what I prevents is the unit kicking back at you. So be careful shopping for older saws, or at least in using one. The temptation is to put your hand sideways across the board, and start your cut. If the saw kicks, and scoots across the board, it could dance right into your hand.
Dual Compound Sliding Miter Saws, and there are many good ones out there, my preference are the Makitas for there total accuracy, are a welcome addition to any shop. Many use high quality miter gauges, with built in stops to cut miters on the table saw. I prefer to cut miters on the Makita, which has a shop stand it is located on, with a stop, and measure system out the left side. I just dial in a number, set the saw, and know I am getting totally accurate results every time. (I do check it once in a while though) The sliders can handle wider boards, usually up to 12 inches or thereabouts, so they have an advantage of a chop saw.
Radial Arm saws have a deeper range depending on the model, so they enable you to cut wider pieces.
I had such a bad experience with accuracy on the Sears, that I dare not use it for ripping, the position that picture shows you. Table saw for that.
Just my .02

[David Duke]

While they do work well on dadoes, to me they are one of the most dangerous saws you can put in your shop. Admittedly the saw I had was on the poor end in regards to quality (a mid 70's vintage Craftsman) and from what I have heard the old iron Delta and Rockwell saws are fantastic. I had more instances with the blade grabbing and jumping across a board while crosscutting than I care to remember, and while you can turn the head and rip its not real safe doing that plus you already have a TS.

[William Nimmo]

put my craftsman on the curb 10 years ago, have never missed it.

[John-Paul Murphy]

mine has a cable that attaches to the saw so when you pull the trigger the cable is actuated allowing the saw to move. It works great....it's a craftsman:o... It does work great for those dados and that is how it is usually set up.

[Bill Wyko]

I got one out back I'll give you if you get it out of my way.:D

[Jim Solomon]

I would not buy one just to have it. I started out with(and still have) a 1963 Craftsman. It is solid as a tank and weighs almost as much. I was always neverous ripping with it. I even used it to make 3" cove molding by tilting the blade and angleing the arm. That was a trip on the wild side although it came out alright. You can rip with your bandsaw. You won't get ready to glue rips but it is a heck of lot safer IMHO.
Jim

[Al Rose]

I hate to be the only one with a different opinion, but here goes. As I stated in an earlier post, I recently purchased an old Dewalt MBF and I absolutely love it. Unlike some of the newer RAS's on the market, these old Dewalt and Delta Rockwell saws are built to last and once they are tuned they pretty much stay tuned. A flat table is a must in order to properly tune your saw. It is much closer to being dead on accurate than my DW 708.

[Jim Becker]

And old, heavy, big and quality RAS (or a new one from Original Saw Company) would be a good investment if you have the room to truly use it, but in most cases these days, there are better solutions and ways to invest your money in tools. The smaller, light machines that came off the assembly lines in the last 20-30 years typically are very hard to keep accurate and a good chunk of them have had recalls for safety, etc. So in this respect, I'm in agreement with Mr. Rose... ;)

[Jim O'Dell]

I built the kitchen cabinets at the last house using nothing but a early '80s Craftsman RAS and a really, really cheap steel router table and 3/4 HP B&D router. I was never afraid using the saw, but I religeously used the nose of the blade guard to hold the material to the table, and used guides to hold the material, especially when ripping. I even used the shaper head on it a couple times. Now that DID scare me!!
I eventually killed it cutting retaining wall concrete blocks. :rolleyes: And bought a contractor saw. I wouldn't go back. I do wish I had kept the mechanism that raised and lowered the cutting head. I think i could use it somehow to raise and lower another piece of equipment.
Dad gave me his RAS, an even older Craftsman. I have a dado head on it, but have used it more as a makeshift disc sander to smooth the cuts on the 6" PVC for the cyclone. Don't really plan to use it much for cutting wood.
If I had had some spare money a year or so ago, there was an old DeWalt RAS in the paper for 200.00. I would have loved to have had that! Whether I used it or not, those are just cool looking machines.:)
I wouldn't spend money on a Craftsman RAS. Get something more useful. Jim.

[Don Abele]

I'm with Al on this one. I bought an old heavy iron Craftsman from a CL ad for $75 about a year ago. I wanted it specifically for dados but find myself also using it to rough cross cut long, wide lumber (I have a 12" CMS).

I had NEVER used a RAS before and had a little apprehension the first time I used it because of all the negative posts here. The blade it came with was a standard saw blade and I did notice some climbing towards me while cutting. It did not, however, jump or come shooting at me. As with any other WW tool, I kept my hands at a safe location and maintained positive control of the wood and the saw.

I installed a negative hook angle blade and now the RAS is a charm to work with and I find myself using it very regularly for wide cross cuts - without any apprehension.

Of course, as you have already heard - YMMV. There are a lot of people out there that are absolutely dead set against the RAS. I'll keep mine.

Be well,

Doc

[Rob Will]

I have two Crapsman radial arm saws sitting in the junk room.
I may keep one RAS around but my belt-drive CMS does about 99.74% of my work.

If you have not purchased a good cabinet saw with a 50" Biesemeyer fence........go there first. JMHO

Rob

[Jim Canniff]

Thanks for the advice. Seems I should hold off and put the $ towards a 12" sliding compound miter saw instead. The cabinet saw will need to wait a bit also, as I've got a decent table saw (Delta w/30" Unifence), but will keep the cabinet with the big fence on the list.

I see now why there are so many radial arm saws for sale for cheap, thanks for explaining: poor accuracy & danger. I hadn't realized the radial arm was so dangerous, always thought the table saw was more so, but I get it now. Will be more aware of that next time I get near a radial arm saw.

Thanks again for all the great advice. And thanks to whoever put this forum together also, it seems extremely useful...I think I'll need to make a donation now...:)

[Tim Sgrazzutti]

One word about RAS's: DeWalt

The good old cast iron DeWalts from the 50's or 60's are fantastic machines. Tuned up with a proper blade they are much more accurate and robust than a CMS. I have a good 10" SCMS, and its only advantage over the DeWalt is portability.

With knowledge about the correct safe techniques for using a DeWalt RAS, it is no more hazardous than any other saw using a circular blade. The piece of equipment in my shop with the biggest potential of disaster, is the person operating the machine.:rolleyes:

Regards,

Tim

[Rob Will]

Thanks for the advice. Seems I should hold off and put the $ towards a 12" sliding compound miter saw instead. The cabinet saw will need to wait a bit also, as I've got a decent table saw (Delta w/30" Unifence), but will keep the cabinet with the big fence on the list. ...:)

I agree Jim, I used a contractor's saw for years.....and the Unifence is a good one. You are correct, on down the road you may find a good deal on a left tilt cabinet saw. The favorites around here are the PM66, the Delta Uni, and the SawStop ($$). Also, most people here will tell you to go for good used equipment.....try Craig's List, ExFactory, E-bay, and Woodweb. ALL of my macinery was used and better than a lot of new items out there.

Rob

[Pete Stack]

I have an old Craftsman RAS. No matter how much I adjust the screws and bolts on the thing, I can't get it to cut square. I only use it to rough-cut. Maybe if I had a more accurate machine I'd use it more.

It's still in my shop, but I when I build a new shop, it probably won't go with me.

[Kyle Kraft]

I had a Craftsman RAS once upon a time. It made a great place to lay stuff like a can of polyureathane or soda or a variety of other stuff. When I built my new shop, I considered keeping it but after careful consideration decided the square footage it occupied was worth more than its utility.

Save up and buy one of the many good cabinet saws out there.

[Gary Keedwell]

I have read alot of threads in the last few years about the pros and cons of RAS's. Seems the biggest and sometimes only pro is the dado's. Unless you are doing production work or have alot of spare room, I see no sense in keeping one around.
Gary

[Randal Stevenson]

I have read alot of threads in the last few years about the pros and cons of RAS's. Seems the biggest and sometimes only pro is the dado's. Unless you are doing production work or have alot of spare room, I see no sense in keeping one around.
Gary


From those that I have read, the ones with good ones that stay in alignment, use them often and love them (like the old DeWalts). Others need the more portability of SCMS. Unless one finds a good old one reasonable, I am now leaning more towards one of the guided systems and a router/saw combo, as a better initial investment.

[Louis Brandt]

I posted on this subject a few weeks ago, but I’ll repeat it here. I have a 1960’s Craftsman RAS, and it has been invaluable to me. I’ve never had anything even resembling a accident with it (I don’t rip, only crosscut and dado), and it’s as accurate as I need. When I get ready to do crosscutting or dadoing with it, I do always make sure that I true it up 90 degrees to the fence, and I keep the fence and table clean and level. I’ve never had the saw “climb” at me. In fact, until I joined the forum, I’d never even heard of a RAS “climbing”. It’s true that my old 1960’s Craftsman was one of the solidly built ones, and from what I’ve read on the forum, maybe in the 70’s and 80’s they began skimping on quality, but my RAS is definitely worth the room it occupies.

[Al Killian]

Wel, I have a early 80's craftsman 10" radial arm saw and have no problems with it. Most of the time problems come from the machine not being cared for by the previos owner and in need of parts replaced. The saw blade will also make a big difference. Mine gets used all the time. I have no ts so it does ripping, crosscuts ,bevels, dados and anything else I need. I have crosscut 16" wide panels and they came out square. Maybe I just have good luck with tools?

[Kevin L. Pauba]

I have an older Craftsman RAS and feared it a bit until I picked up Mr. Sawdust's book on how to use it safely and correctly. After making the tabletop as suggested, buying a high quality Forrest blade, learning how to tune it up and following some of his excellent directions, I've found it to be a great tool around the shop. I no longer fear my old friend.

[Mark S Davis]

In my introduction to woodworking, I thought I got a great deal in purchasing an old Craftsman RAS and benchtop router table, router and and even a large collection of nuts/bolts, and other dodads. A friend was moving into temporary housing and sold the lot for $100.

Knowing that folks pay good money to be scared at movies, etc., the RAS was easily worth the money for all the excitement it provided me.

At the time, I didn't want to be a woodworker. I just wanted to cut some wood flooring. WOW! Before I was finished, I had rip-launched several floor boards into the wall. And I also had the exillerating experience of witnessing the saw dance across a crosscut and hit me in the chest. Being new at this then, I feel quite lucky to have come away with just a bruised chest and damaged wall.

Clearly the lionshare of fault lay with the operator. But I remember thinking that both experiences were encouraged by the fact that the on/off switch was no where near the saw handle. Having one hand for the handle and one for the workpiece left me one short for starting/stopping this machine (I thought). That was 10yrs ago.

I know there are a number of fine RAS out there. But this one is simply too dangerous. I still have the saw, but if I ever get rid of it, I plan to destroy it. I don't want to play even a small role in getting some (likely) new WW hurt.

I sometimes think that just seeing it in my garage will help me to be a little more thoughtful WW. Maybe I'll even turn it on again someday. But I've never been one for scarey movies.

[Ray Knight]

I thought all RAS were considered dangerous. Why were some recalled and others not? Is the kickback and blade exposure the only risk. I inherited an old Dewalt with a building I bought. I was going to throw it away. Maybe I ought to rethink that and make it a dado station. There will be enough room in the new shop. So what's the deal? Why were some recalled? Are they all dangerous? Ray

[Abe Low]

They are considered to be dangerous because they tend to come toward you when cross cutting. In Europe RAS blades have a negative tooth pitch to reduce or eliminate this tendency. I have an older 12" delta and love it.

I also have a Montgomery Wards 10" ras that is way underpowered and is currently used to power a Performax drum sander that bolts to the vertical post and is connected to a pully that replaces the blade (Bought used for $90). Height adjustment is done the same way as raising the blade depth of cut. I found that the Performax worked without divots only if I was able to push the material at a very uniform speed. So.. I made a belt transfer system using a 24" wide belt, a couple of rollers, a 12 volt D.C. drive motor from a discarded wheel chair and had a speed controller made by a guy that knew electronics for about $100.

[Dennis Hatchett]

Wait to find a big heavy used one which you will be able to find if you are patient and wait for the right deal. I find that a lot of woodworkers don't like them and some people even just want to get rid of them as some earlier posts indicate. But I love my old RAS and find to be the best tool for several specific applications.

However, I agree with most others here that it does not replace the CMS. Setup your CMS with extensions on either side - the longer the better. and set up the RAS at the end of your CMS extension so you can use the same table. I'm talking about the same kind Norm has and you can see it on the New Yankee website.
http://www.newyankee.com/tour_view?view=swall_small

I did the same set up to the opposite side of the extensions of my Sliding CMS. I was worried that I only have about 5 feet of clearance to the wall on the left side but so far it hasn't been a problem. I mainly use it for dados but my favorite application is half lap joints. I just keep the dado permanently set up in the RAS.



By the way, I got the deal of the decade 10 years ago when I picked up that heavy duty Delta Rockwell Super 990 at an estate sale for $30. I'll never get rid of it.

[Mike Seals]

I guess I'm one of the few that still loves his RAS. Mines an older 70's model Craftsman that my father gave me. He had let it sit out under a patio for a long time.

I cleaned it up, readjusted everything and built a sturdy base for it that matched the level of one of my benches. I use it for cross cuts mainly, but I still like it more than the 12" compound miter saw I have and I feel very comfortable using it.

As with any tool, knowing it's limits and using it with care makes all the difference in the world. My simple rule of thumb is never have the hands within 12" of the blade or blade path.

[Don Abele]

I thought all RAS were considered dangerous. Why were some recalled and others not? Is the kickback and blade exposure the only risk. I inherited an old Dewalt with a building I bought. I was going to throw it away. Maybe I ought to rethink that and make it a dado station. There will be enough room in the new shop. So what's the deal? Why were some recalled? Are they all dangerous? Ray

Ray, many were recalled because of the blade guard, or lack there of. If you look at the last picture posted of that awesome Rockwell (built like a tank), you'll notice there is no lower blade guard. A lot of the RAS's were recalled or a safety notice released saying not to use them any longer because of that. I know that my Craftsman does not have a lower guard and no after market ones are available, so my model is on the "do not use" list. Of course, them not having a blade guard is like removing the blade guard from your tablesaw (go check that thread out).

For the first year or so, I used a standard blade (the one it came with). After reading an article about blades, I switched to a negative hook blade and now it just glides right through the wood - smooth and easy.

Dangerous? Yes, but so is every other woodworking tool we use. Set-up properly and used properly these are great tools. The quality of tool dictates how easy it is to set-up and keep in alignment. Mine is dead on and I've never had a problem with it (though I admit I mostly cut 90's with it). I would never use one to rip, I really think that's a kickback waiting to happen. For cross cutting - a firm, steady pull with a slightly rigid arm is all that is needed to control the carriage (and the blade). As I've said before, with the original blade, the negative hook blade, and my dado set I've NEVER had it jump or climb at me. Never. Not sure why others have it happen to them. My experience with this forum is that a RAS is a love it or hate it machine (and here it's mostly hated). Mine - I love.

Be well,

Doc